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| Thread: Putin's n1 opposition gunned down in the streets. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted March 07, 2015 11:29 PM |
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And if we slap a percentage on each, which would you believe be the most important? Please don't tell me 50-50, because such an odd only has 1 % chance of happening XD
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 07, 2015 11:33 PM |
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It doesnt work like that. You can not dissect it into seperate quantitative pieces. That would be like asking do we live with our stomach, brain or heart and give percentages to each while none can function properly without the other. The relationship between these is organic not mechanical.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted March 07, 2015 11:49 PM |
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Edited by Kayna at 00:14, 08 Mar 2015.
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Well, I see you're kind of dodging a point I'm trying to make. But yes, it's true, I'm oversimplifying again. Those can't be quantified for real.
I believe the political evolution humans went through is a natural one, because people rebelled along the centuries. It's bound to happen if a monarchy or similar take everything for themselves and piss too many people over centuries, where as the scientific breakthroughs we had quelled our basic needs to feed and such, brought literature to free the common man's mind, etc, reducing our need to wage wars on one another.
Your 14 century comment seemed to insinuate that we owe our lifestyle to our politicians, past and present, where I believe we owe it to our scientifics, and to a certain extent, our past philosophers. I doubt a philosopher could change anything in today's world however, our great leaders would simply let those sound waves bounce off their army harmlessly. I imagine whatever politician from centuries ago that are now written in history, with a deed attributed to their name, simply went on with the flow of the popular vote, just like those we have today. Exceptions may apply.
Edit : Let me rephrase that. You say "I'm glad I live in today's society rather than the 14 century" , but I say "The only difference between now and then is the technology. Our leaders act in a very similar way than back then, getting control, resources and power, uncaring if little people dies along the way" .
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 08, 2015 12:21 AM |
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Yeah, well, those philosophers and scientists stood up for things and the odds were they werent going to change much either, so you're kind of shooting your own foot here. Changing things and opposing authority was never ever a piece of cake. Actually, it was harder back then. Yet, they were also able to come into existence BECAUSE the political system they lived allowed them to flourish in the first place. It's not that everybody in Uganda have low IQ that they dont have philosophers or scientists. Their system still dont produce them. And I dont see people migrating to Uganda, I see them migrating from Uganda, so all this "what's the difference" talk is quite on paper as usual and it's once again, probably spoken by someone who would prefer to drink horse piss instead of living in Afghanistan for only 8 months.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 12:40 AM |
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artu said:
Yet, they were also able to come into existence BECAUSE the political system they lived allowed them to flourish in the first place.
*holds up a finger*
Wait up! It's not a yes or no thing. It's not that it either work or doesn't work. First, you're in deep snow. Then, you can change things ( which usually means with revolutions, aka violence ), then, comfort settles in, we live nicely, give it 3 generations and now we believe we can change everything peacefully ( to go back to the main subject of this thread, the pen rather than the sword ) while we have a few super powers with impressive armies not willing to concede anything unless you use violence against them.
So, instead of being that it doesn't work ( your 14 century ) and then it works ( today ), it's more like it didn't work, then it worked ( about 50 years ago, just slapping a random number here ), and now it doesn't work again ( today's ultra left wing ).
I understand your allusion to camel piss ( lol. ), but don't think I'm unaware of my " lucky " situation, it's just that my government has the technology to feed us with little effort, meaning they don't need to harm us, only others in other countries.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 08, 2015 01:08 AM |
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It's not like 14th century doesnt work and 21st century first-world does perfectly. You are the one thinking in binary mode, not me. They both work to some degree with 21st century certainly holding the upper hand.
And for that to continue, exploiting poorer regions unjustly is not an inevitable destiny. It can be changed, there is actual improvement in the way societies treat each other (though things can go pretty downhill quite fast and history is not a straightforward line of progress, I'll give you that).
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 01:36 AM |
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Edited by Kayna at 01:39, 08 Mar 2015.
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So we agree that we cannot consider passing from "a monarchy that recruits its citizens to death ( army + excessive use of it ) and taxes its citizens like crazy" to a democracy "that recruits its citizens to death ( army + excessive use of it ) and taxes other countries like crazy by keeping them in a poor state via wars to keep their very advantageous oil deals" a "progression" just because of my personal geo location ( Canada ).
It is different, but it is not a "progression" in the actual, well meant term of progress.
Yes, things "could" go better, but why aren't they yet? I mean, humans were on this world for many thousands of years. It's because we are still stuck in this loop I've said earlier, were we work hard for little changes, then the red necks above us and screw it all with little effort, mostly a president singing a piece of paper and blasting it over the news.
People willing to fight most often ends up recruited in the law ( because its easier there, you got back up, also because those tends to respect strength, and they're already in power ), centrists often ends up demoralized by all the extremes and often leave the political theme out of their lives and the left ends up writing papers and exposing stuff on the news, thinking it might change something when I personally haven't seen real political results using only peaceful methods anywhere in the world in my entire life. The media, if it ever accomplished anything, was to brainwash us, two sided or one sided.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 08, 2015 01:49 AM |
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You must be so joyful during breakfasts, kayna 
As I said before, you expect too much too quick. A hundred years ago, racism was the norm everywhere. It didnt disappear but today, at least it's considered a shameful act by vast majority. I dont think greed and disregard to others that comes with it will ever vanish completely but we are softening it to a more civil level each passing century.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 02:13 AM |
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Yeah, well, I really dislike that argument, you know, "Look over there, they have it rough". Didn't expect it from you to be honest.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 08, 2015 02:22 AM |
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Edited by artu at 02:37, 08 Mar 2015.
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It may not be the most sophisticated argument but it's adequate enough when the counter-thesis is that all civil and political achievment is just an illusion, a mehter march... I find that kind of escapism doomed to stay on paper. Nobody gives up on civilization no matter how sour they trash talk it.
(Edit: In the Mehter March, the band walks two steps forward, then one step back, it's a standard analogy in my tongue but I guess it needs extra expalanation here. )
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 02:24 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 02:25, 08 Mar 2015.
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artu said:
Nobody gives up on civilization no matter how sour they trash talk it.
nobody? you sure about that? 
(having a conversation made me forget the smiley before i posted. focus, fred, focus...)
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 08, 2015 02:28 AM |
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Okay, there may be an extremely limited stock of Robinsons out there but I wont be debating them on the internet now, will I...They'll be cleaning the lice from their hair and the brown from their ass in the woods.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 03:08 AM |
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"look over there, those people suffer, so you should to son. Shut up and take it."
... Man, that is so concerned grandpa citizen talk!
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 08, 2015 08:00 AM |
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It is if you take it out of context like a five year old.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted March 08, 2015 05:29 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 17:30, 08 Mar 2015.
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blizzardboy said:
As we can all see, America greatly benefited from the exploits of Iraq. Celebration & jubilee abounds on the roaring streets over the billions of dollars of war debt, suicidal veterans, and the emergence of ISIS and continued instability in the oil-rich Middle East. We won the lottery on that one. I have a golden statue that urinates margaritas in my living room thanks to Iraq.
Almost laughed but taint funny. The "competing-images" that exist in every freakin' country now makes any route the U.S. takes a nightmare. "Dammed if we do or don't" is a global issue and it's not going anywhere soon.
Related; the idea that our Congress can't handle any issue regarding security at home or abroad is utter crap and they've been too long without. That power should never have been allowed and in that hands of one man. If Congress can't decide, then the people have not decided and nothing should happen. It was meant to work that way and needs to do so again. Look at what FDR had to contend with and I think he had a wee bit more to worry about.
Just venting
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"Do your own research"
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted March 08, 2015 05:52 PM |
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Hey now. It has nothing to do with 5 years old, every politician and respected person on the planet does it!
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted March 08, 2015 11:09 PM |
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markkur said:
Almost laughed but taint funny. The "competing-images" that exist in every freakin' country now makes any route the U.S. takes a nightmare. "Dammed if we do or don't" is a global issue and it's not going anywhere soon.
Not really. US policy towards Russia is ridiculously more favorable internationally than the support Russia has that it's basically not even a real competition. There's a widespread perception of American haughtiness, but it takes a lot more than that to actually get people (let alone heads of state) to side with oil-rich kleptocratic oligarchs. The US is like that friend that is sometimes obnoxious, but ultimately, you still decide to hang out with him because he has a driver's license, a car, and lots of contacts. Russia is like that creepy guy with an abusive home life that goes to the party and sits in the corner staring at your girlfriend's breasts while drinking cheap beer. The States' overall image in the world is still in the green, and it has slowly recovered some since a decade ago. I mean yeah, it probably wouldn't be strategically prudent to visit rural Pakistan with an American flag wrapped around your pelvis while blasting the orchestral national anthem through your rigged-up 4-wheel drive SUV, tempting though that would be, but relatively speaking, it has a tolerable image. I've never before run into issues with my nationality. The strongest anti-American attitude in the world is actually in Mexico, not the Middle East. Their crimelords are fueled by their white wealthy northern neighbors. The Middle East hates itself more than anything else.
Besides, try being French or British sometime. The most popular & fashionable contemporary nationalities are all the ones that were belligerent fascists in WW2 It's true. Lesson in humility? I don't know.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 09, 2015 08:05 AM |
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One way of another the US is in the centre of global economy and many countries, particularly the European ones (but other major players like China) have to thread very carefully when the Washington crew comes up with something controversial (which it does every other day). You'll be really pushing it if claim that the international image of the US is recovering, it's more like the issues - like the German spy scandal or... the worldwide spy scandal - are being swept under the carpet because of bigger problems. The things is, Europe keeps too many Cold War legacy ties to the US - the most restrictive of which is NATO - to really be able to have its own, independent policy on global scale. There are long-term plans to change that but right now everyone has to get along with that obnoxious "friend".
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted March 09, 2015 03:19 PM |
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blizzardboy said:
... Russia is like that creepy guy with an abusive home life...
That little blurp made me think of an article I read that was written when Putin "nearing" power. The author (iirc a Russian) was very worried of what having a KGB man at the top might mean in the future. He thought pretty much like I did when Bush senior vaulted from the CIA; it seemed then a very bad idea for international relations.
blizzardboy said:
Besides, try being French or British sometime. The most popular & fashionable contemporary nationalities are all the ones that were belligerent fascists in WW2 It's true. Lesson in humility? I don't know.
When I think of how much American blood has been spilt around the world since 1917 saving...nevermind.
I just "hope" that all the folks in the Ukraine will choose Peace and all the global powers change their tunes and keep out. I saw one year old report and what I saw was very heartbreaking. I can't believe how so many people are living life in the 21st century!
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted March 09, 2015 04:08 PM |
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So the world should just sit by as Russia forces the Ukraine to surrender? I do not see how that is in the Ukraine's best interests.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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