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| Thread: Putin's n1 opposition gunned down in the streets. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 09, 2015 04:17 PM |
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blizzardboy said:
The States' overall image in the world is still in the green, and it has slowly recovered some since a decade ago.
It is easily in the green now, but during Bush administration Europe was very annoyed by the whole Iraq war and that jazz. Heck the American people branded the French as traitors for not joining the war xD Remember Freedom Fries? What a joke man. I rolled my eyes so bad they nearly fell off. Many Americans I met during that era first lied they were Canadians, only admitting later where they were from.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 09, 2015 04:50 PM |
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OmegaDestroyer said:
So the world should just sit by as Russia forces the Ukraine to surrender? I do not see how that is in the Ukraine's best interests.
I've always wondered why do you guys think that you know what are the other countries' best interests.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted March 09, 2015 04:54 PM |
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Do you think giving up sovereignty because Russia is bullying you is in Ukraine's best interests? That kind of sets a bad precedent for the rest of Europe doesn't it?
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 09, 2015 05:03 PM |
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It will be good to prove that the US has nothing to do with what's happening in Ukraine before you go with the "bullying" stuff. Right now there are enough evidences for the opposite.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 09, 2015 05:43 PM |
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Minion said:
blizzardboy said:
The States' overall image in the world is still in the green, and it has slowly recovered some since a decade ago.
It is easily in the green now, but during Bush administration Europe was very annoyed by the whole Iraq war and that jazz. Heck the American people branded the French as traitors for not joining the war xD Remember Freedom Fries? What a joke man. I rolled my eyes so bad they nearly fell off. Many Americans I met during that era first lied they were Canadians, only admitting later where they were from.
That was really so redneck of them and primitive in a gross way, wasnt it. Even Google gave search results as "did you mean French military defeats" when you searched for their victories. I got two words for you Google: Napoleon Bonaparte.
Never having massive destruction and havoc in their homeland (maybe with the exception of 150 year old Civil War), the presumuptuous and ignorant warmongering is one the most irritative aspects of American conservatives.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted March 09, 2015 06:02 PM |
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Zenofex said:
It will be good to prove that the US has nothing to do with what's happening in Ukraine before you go with the "bullying" stuff. Right now there are enough evidences for the opposite.
So Russia is just peacefully occupying Ukraine?
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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somi
Known Hero
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posted March 09, 2015 07:46 PM |
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OmegaDestroyer said:
So the world should just sit by as Russia forces the Ukraine to surrender? I do not see how that is in the Ukraine's best interests.
Yes, they should. As no one give a snow when USA did a lot worse things.
But when someone else is doing it, than its a problem. Love double standards in world politics.
Hack USA and EU are heavy involved in the ukraine problem from beginning anyway, so its not a surprise that it became a war there and russia jumped in when they saw what was again cooking.
But personally russia needs to be stopped and punished for what it is indirectly and directly doing in ukraine. But also this must be done for anyone doing problems, no matter how powerful they are. But we know that will never happen.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted March 09, 2015 07:59 PM |
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Just stop this kindergarden reasoning. When someone does bad things - things which cost people's lives - what does it matter what bad things were done before by other people?
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somi
Known Hero
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posted March 09, 2015 08:06 PM |
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gatecrasher said:
Just stop this kindergarden reasoning. When someone does bad things - things which cost people's lives - what does it matter what bad things were done before by other people?
Hmm read my post again as you did not understand it good. Especially the last row
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 09, 2015 08:08 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 20:31, 09 Mar 2015.
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OmegaDestroyer said:
So Russia is just peacefully occupying Ukraine?
No, but when you are part of the problem, you can't really be part of the solution. I'm talking about the US by the way.
Quote:
But personally russia needs to be stopped and punished for what it is indirectly and directly doing in ukraine. But also this must be done for anyone doing problems, no matter how powerful they are. But we know that will never happen.
Good, but by whom? No worldwide institution exists that can punish the wrongdoings of states that can beat the crap out of most other countries and get away with warning from the "international community". Especially nuclear states. Whatever exists on international level for this purpose has no real international power and it's been gradually reduced to acknowledging the results of some power player's politics. In Ukraine's case the "punishment" would mean that both Russia and the US should go to the corner and feel ashamed and they should do it voluntarily.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 09, 2015 08:12 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 20:17, 09 Mar 2015.
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artu said:
Minion said:
Heck the American people branded the French as traitors for not joining the war xD Remember Freedom Fries? What a joke man.
That was really so redneck of them and primitive in a gross way, wasnt it.
i can't really describe how stupid that was. i don't think you or minion combined could possibly have a lower opinion of the people involved in... that... than i do. whatever that was.
i really don't have the words. some things defy description.
edit: but then, they also created the "patriot act" around that time, told americans who were against the war, that they were un-american. the hatred i feel for these people... defies description, too.
i find them anti-american; these people who make the country look bad with their every breath and action. they should be exterminated like the roaches they are.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted March 09, 2015 08:27 PM |
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Zenofex said:
OmegaDestroyer said:
So Russia is just peacefully occupying Ukraine?
No, but when you are part of the problem, you can't really be part of the solution.
So who is left to solve the problem?
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 09, 2015 08:39 PM |
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OmegaDestroyer said:
So who is left to solve the problem?
You tell me? If you think that "aiding" Ukraine with weapons will help, I would invite you to Europe, so can see for yourself how helpful will exactly that be. But if you haven't noticed, Russia isn't really going for territories that don't have native Russian population. Yet. So maybe doing actual peace talks and giving the separatist regions some real representation in the Ukrainian government instead of labelling them "terrorists" will deprive Russia of its main argument for the intervention, no?
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted March 10, 2015 01:08 PM |
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Quote:
So Russia is just peacefully occupying Ukraine?
Wasn't exactly peaceful to begin with.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted March 10, 2015 02:54 PM |
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What Ukraine needs to do is separate into two. They have too many differences to coexist peacefully, from political views to religion to their language and etc. Russia only wants part of Ukraine where as the US wants it all, and that's where we can deduce that the US and Europe is being greedy. Twice as greedy.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted March 10, 2015 03:19 PM |
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The US wants the Ukraine? That's news to me.
Zenofex said:
OmegaDestroyer said:
So Russia is just peacefully occupying Ukraine?
No, but when you are part of the problem, you can't really be part of the solution. I'm talking about the US by the way.
I just noticed the retroactive edit. By your logic, how can Russia be part of the solution?
What good will talking do? I agree that arms escalation is not the ideal solution. That said, I do not believe diplomacy is going to work in this case. Russia will not cede the Crimean territory which is the only outcome that will cause the other nations to remove the crippling sanctions.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 10, 2015 03:37 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 15:43, 10 Mar 2015.
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Nah, you are wrong, Russia also wants it all. Any more NATO countries next it are not acceptable, be them parts of some dissolved territory or existing entity. Russia would have been absolutely happy with the pre-March 2014 Ukraine, with Crimea and all, but with a friendly government (they were ready to give Ukraine huge amount of money for that loyalty). Instead they got a coup, Russian-speakers effectively lost representation, shortly after that the new democratic government banned the opposition so they also lost representation legally, the new people in Kiev were publicly speaking with CIA and FBI every other day so Russia came up with what it came up with.
Quote:
I just noticed the retroactive edit. By your logic, how can Russia be part of the solution?
Well, this wasn't started by Russia. You won't hear such statements on the news though. But yes, Russia is also not part of the solution. Problem is the people who can really solve this, permanently - the Ukrainians - are deliberately brainwashed to chant division slogans instead of working on a solution. Ideally all US and Russian agents should be kicked out of the Ukrainian politics so the country can take independent course but that's not gonna happen in short term.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted March 10, 2015 04:23 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 16:26, 10 Mar 2015.
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OmegaDestroyer said:
So the world should just sit by as Russia forces the Ukraine to surrender? I do not see how that is in the Ukraine's best interests.
To me? Anyway, I'm not isolationist at all, but the vid I saw was of many mobs of people that hate the hell out of many other mobs of people. I simply cannot see how any outsider can help, till they tone it waaaay down an want to hear more than want to shout.
What I saw was very, very bad. To me, there appeared to be absolutely zero common ground with lots of pent-up hatred flowing like lava. One side wants out, the other stays in and both sides held guns and threatened "Try and stop us...we'll kill." Not exactly grounds for a summit.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted March 11, 2015 03:40 AM |
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Zenofex said:
Well, this wasn't started by Russia. You won't hear such statements on the news though. But yes, Russia is also not part of the solution. Problem is the people who can really solve this, permanently - the Ukrainians - are deliberately brainwashed to chant division slogans instead of working on a solution. Ideally all US and Russian agents should be kicked out of the Ukrainian politics so the country can take independent course but that's not gonna happen in short term.
This somewhat breaches into a broader question of political philosophy that expands beyond Russia-Ukraine, but if you could try to concisely summarize: why should Ukrainians have sole self-determination over Ukraine? (i.e. this resonates with the political worldview that individuals/countries are "islands") To what extent should self-determination be honored? What would be your definition of an American or Russian "agent"?
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 11, 2015 05:04 AM |
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blizzardboy said:
Zenofex said:
Well, this wasn't started by Russia. You won't hear such statements on the news though. But yes, Russia is also not part of the solution. Problem is the people who can really solve this, permanently - the Ukrainians - are deliberately brainwashed to chant division slogans instead of working on a solution. Ideally all US and Russian agents should be kicked out of the Ukrainian politics so the country can take independent course but that's not gonna happen in short term.
This somewhat breaches into a broader question of political philosophy that expands beyond Russia-Ukraine, but if you could try to concisely summarize: why should Ukrainians have sole self-determination over Ukraine? (i.e. this resonates with the political worldview that individuals/countries are "islands") To what extent should self-determination be honored? What would be your definition of an American or Russian "agent"?
This kind of approach may seem particular when you are a super power and it's mainly your side that dictates terms in cases of interventions but really, somehow I get the feeling, most Americans would be furious if someone tried to dictate them how to handle the recent economical crisis or 9/11. Some even get annoyed by the competition of Japanese products in a nationalist manner.
What would be your definition of "not isolationist?" What draws the line between imperial and concerned?
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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