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| Thread: Ashan Creature Lineups |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted March 16, 2015 05:40 PM |
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Quote:
1: Helping this already Niche Franchise sell to Non-hardcore people is not just a "just" reason. It is a major consideration, it is possibly what keeps this franchise alive.
While I agree that TBS isn't the most popular genre, I don't believe that copying popular games is a way to go nor the best way to attract new customers. The fact is that the market is plagued with copy-cats and they seem rather unattractive (to me at least).
But could you please formulate more about this aspect? I'm curios about other peoples' opinion.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 16, 2015 05:41 PM |
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@WO: I agree wholeheartedly.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted March 16, 2015 05:46 PM |
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the dark elves are just as mythological creatures as the medusa y'know.
And there has been plenty of religious strife and geopolitical changes, just not on the times the games are set (Shantiri wars, the invasion of Tarlad, the creation of the Free Cities and the Silver Cities, the creation of Heresh, etc)
I dont see how the necropolis having layers and shades makes it inferior sorry. Personally i find it great that we can have people like Anastasya and Kaspar in the same faction of Ludmilla and Markal.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted March 16, 2015 05:49 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
While I agree that TBS isn't the most popular genre, I don't believe that copying popular games is a way to go nor the best way to attract new customers. The fact is that the market is plagued with copy-cats and they seem rather unattractive (to me at least).
But could you please formulate more about this aspect? I'm curios about other peoples' opinion.
Watch the vid I posted a link to in my previous response.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 16, 2015 05:57 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 17:58, 16 Mar 2015.
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War-overlord said:
1: Helping this already Niche Franchise sell to Non-hardcore people is not just a "just" reason. It is a major consideration, it is possibly what keeps this franchise alive.
that's fine, good even. once again, the universe itself isn't the problem, it's that any potential is wasted by doing the same stuff over and over.
War-overlord said:
2: There is a reason why things aren't changed, or at the very least not changed drastically. Allow MatPat to explain for me: Here.
seen it 
and frankly, he doesn't really touch on the issue with Ashan. we don't ask that the game changes a huge amount (though i personally would welcome it) but that something happens in Ashan that can shuffle things around. game wouldn't have to change, just the factions and even then not a huge amount. as someone else said, making Academy more spiritual and not using constructs for a game. that would be new and interesting while not breaking away to much.
GenyaArikado said:
the dark elves are just as mythological creatures as the medusa y'know.
yeah, they also go under the name "dwarves"
GenyaArikado said:
And there has been plenty of religious strife and geopolitical changes, just not on the times the games are set (Shantiri wars, the invasion of Tarlad, the creation of the Free Cities and the Silver Cities, the creation of Heresh, etc)
Then why aren't we seeing that!?
there is clearly so much stuff put into the damn place but it's never utilized. isn't that more or less the definition of "wasted potential"? it's there yet not used. can we go to after dark Messiah yet?
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted March 16, 2015 06:27 PM |
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Quote:
they MAY be dwarves under another name
Even then, pop culture got in charge of separating them, so sit down sjw.
And we arent seeing that because the universe backstory was only fully formed 3 years ago. Warcraft franchise is around 20 years old and we only saw a tiny tiny portion of the War of the Ancients (aka the most important conflict in Azeroth ever) 3 years ago
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted March 16, 2015 06:49 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
seen it
and frankly, he doesn't really touch on the issue with Ashan. we don't ask that the game changes a huge amount (though i personally would welcome it) but that something happens in Ashan that can shuffle things around. game wouldn't have to change, just the factions and even then not a huge amount. as someone else said, making Academy more spiritual and not using constructs for a game. that would be new and interesting while not breaking away to much.
For you not, because you don't like Ashan. For the people who do, it does. And let's face it, there is only 2 places you defend Ashan. In the surveys Ubi sends every other year and to their face at cons. Cause forums like these have beaten and will beat down the lovers.
But look at it a different way. Look at it from the perspective of Ashan being the innovation. Look at the "screaming bloody murder" the moment some of our members found out that "Liches ain't got no skull-faces no more" and "Grims is Vamp1res, ". There was innovation, several years ago and there are still people who cannot get over that.
When Ubisoft says the consumer likes Ashan, I believe them. Cause I know they know consumers, their sales-figures prove it. And for every fan, there more than 10 consumers.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted March 16, 2015 07:07 PM |
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Or as I like to call them; the lowest common denominator.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 16, 2015 07:16 PM |
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I just want Ubi to do something with Ashan and there is only one thing about it that i hate, which is dark elves. Ashan can be great and fantastic: there is a lot of stuff just waiting to happen or be explored. human civil wars are all fine and good, but it gets boring after three games, you know? let's see what happens after dark Messiah. most stuff can be kept, just shuffle stuff around a bit. Medusa in dungeon is a step in the right direction (removing all dark elves is the final step) but i want to see something change. blow it up, go forward in time, introduce some foreign power. Anything even if just changing a theme of a faction, say, making academy fully mechanized. It wouldn't change the role of academy, or heavily alter its lineup or anything, but it would be a fresh breath of air. instead we get the exact same academy as last time. Cabir is preferable over Gremlin, but still.
I want to love Ashan, but there is just so much potential not being used and that's a huge bummer 
of dwarves return, give 'em guns! that'll shake stuff up a bit and before you know it, guns'll be the standard ranged weapon! do it gradually and no one will bat an eye.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted March 16, 2015 07:26 PM |
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or aka, the people who actually keep franchises alive.
In the end we talk like if the pre reboot franchise had some sort of high art story with never seen creatures or stuff like that, when it actually drew a lot from sources, original creations included and didnt even bother changing the names
to top it off, Enroth had scantly clad dark elves too. Just that they werent in the dungeon i think
 
not to mention the spider dressed necromancers and "Twilight" vampires
   
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 16, 2015 07:28 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
(removing all dark elves is the final step)
...Not.
I'm not sure what you have against dark elves, really. I do admit that their potential has not yet fully been exploited, but removing them is not any solution at all.
Also... there's a difference between being innovative and adding stuff from nowhere. All you guys think about are guns, robots and revolutions... which honestly, actually kinda bores me for that matter.  They added lots of units in H6 and H7 - sun crusaders, faceless, arcane birds, lamasus, namtarus... universe gets richer with every installment, but apparently there aren't enough robots for you to notice that.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted March 16, 2015 07:33 PM |
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Sligneris said:
removing them is not any solution at all.
Replacing them IS. 
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted March 16, 2015 07:36 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
Sligneris said:
removing them is not any solution at all.
Replacing them IS.
Do you really think the minotaurs are what made Dungeon win against Inferno? please
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 16, 2015 07:37 PM |
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Zombi_Wizzard said:
Sligneris said:
removing them is not any solution at all.
Replacing them IS.
It's a solution that I honestly hope no one goes for - wasting potential is one thing, but negating any future potential doesn't sound much better.
Avirosb said:
Or as I like to call them; the lowest common denominator.
Yet, you are so much better? On what basis?
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 16, 2015 07:52 PM |
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Sligneris said:
kiryu133 said:
(removing all dark elves is the final step)
...Not.
I'm not sure what you have against dark elves, really. I do admit that their potential has not yet fully been exploited, but removing them is not any solution at all.
i think you kinda miss-interpreted what i said. Dark elves are completely useless. there is no reason for them to exist and they lack any potential. there is no point to them. when i say potential i mean pretty much everything but dark elves.
Sligneris said:
Also... there's a difference between being innovative and adding stuff from nowhere. All you guys think about are guns, robots and revolutions... which honestly, actually kinda bores me for that matter. They added lots of units in H6 and H7 - sun crusaders, faceless, arcane birds, lamasus, namtarus... universe gets richer with every installment, but apparently there aren't enough robots for you to notice that.
these are all great! sun riders were a bit much perhaps but overall this is all pretty cool stuff. namtarus might've been replaced by an actual mythological creature though i like the spinner in charge of life and death motif which is a pretty standard thing in myth. the problem i have aren't the creatures being added but the factions around them. Pre Ashan sylvan was the nature town. everything about it was about preserving and living in tandem with nature. it was the town of seasonal changes and rebirth. and the creatures reflected that with Unicorns, rare beasts only showing up to people who respect nature and phoenixes whose very being is that of rebirth and yes, nature. sylvan was not the "elven town" it is now. Sylvan has lost its very personality and i don't think it can get it back until the elven motif takes a step back to allow nature to take over. that's just an example and i think Haven has gotten a bit better under ubi, especially h7. sure, the religious theme has gotten a bit to extreme and moved away from the more christian concept in h3-4, but take away some of the zealousness and Haven is probably in a better spot than its ever been. (i'd like to point out that pre-ubi haven was never religious, they just had religious inspiration in design, something i think would be good to return to).
Ashan has so far been an interesting setting that's had a couple of missteps (and one huge one) that stops it from shining, but it's close. UBi, let your developers get full creative freedom next time, k'?
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted March 16, 2015 08:38 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Yet, you are so much better? On what basis?
On not being content with less content or tolerate having to wait for a bunch on patches 
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted March 16, 2015 09:17 PM |
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Quote:
i think you kinda miss-interpreted what i said. Dark elves are completely useless. there is no reason for them to exist and they lack any potential. there is no point to them. when i say potential i mean pretty much everything but dark elves.
lol and the basis for this is? that we already have sylvan elves? what a tool.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted March 16, 2015 09:39 PM |
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*Pfft* name-calling. How quaint.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted March 16, 2015 09:42 PM |
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Sligneris said:
wasting potential is a one thing, but negating any future potential doesn't sound much better.
I don't think I could have said it any better myself lol
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 16, 2015 10:22 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 22:23, 16 Mar 2015.
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GenyaArikado said:
lol and the basis for this is? that we already have sylvan elves? what a tool.
what are you even trying to say?
look, if you can tell me a reason for the Dark elves to be there, fine, but i have yet to get an explanation. and no, lore-reasons are not what i'm after, i'm after an actual reason for Dark elves to be the primary race of dungeon over minotaurs because i can't think of one.
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