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| Thread: Ashan Creature Lineups |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted March 17, 2015 02:27 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
RMZ1989 said:
That is nonsense.
Oh yeah, ofc it's a nonsense! How dare I say that Mino-Dungeon isn't popular at all - more so compared to DE-Dungeon.
Deal with it, [insert name] Elves will win over almost any other race.
P.S.: nevermind, I'm not interested in any conversation anyway. It'll be pointless.
Nope, your sentence before is nonsense. Just because it didn't get any chance at all doesn't mean that it won't be popular, it just means that Devs and Ubi don't believe that it will work(and looking at their Ashan, that still doesn't mean anything at all).
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted March 17, 2015 02:37 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 14:44, 17 Mar 2015.
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We already have both minotaurs (living in underground maze) and dark elves (being merchants and not Drow/WH rip-off) as main heroes in Might and Magic 8 - guess which race was far more popular? 
 
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted March 17, 2015 02:38 PM |
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RMZ1989 said:
Nope, your sentence before is nonsense. Just because it didn't get any chance at all doesn't mean that it won't be popular, it just means that Devs and Ubi don't believe that it will work(and looking at their Ashan, that still doesn't mean anything at all).
This I gotta agree with.
Further more, the idea that Minotaurs as a civilised society will make a setting less popular can clearly be countered with the Dragonlance-series of novels and campaignsettings.
The introduction of DElves as opposed to Minotaurs for the racial basis of Dungeon is one of the decisions I am less than pleased with.
But as I said earlier, if having to live with this is what it takes to keep things alive and sellable, then so be it. Who knows what the post-Dark Messiah future will bring to the setting.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 17, 2015 02:39 PM |
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I like my Dungeon as stealthy and cunning, so no thank you for mino-brutes ruling Dungeon.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 17, 2015 02:41 PM |
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War-overlord said:
The introduction of DElves as opposed to Minotaurs for the racial basis of Dungeon is one of the decisions I am less than pleased with.
I am learning something here.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted March 17, 2015 02:58 PM |
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Minion said:
I like my Dungeon as stealthy and cunning, so no thank you for mino-brutes ruling Dungeon.
Stealthy and cunning? Well that rules out Dungeon as we know it.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 17, 2015 03:14 PM |
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Avirosb said:
Stealthy and cunning? Well that rules out Dungeon as we I know it.
FTFY.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted March 17, 2015 03:27 PM |
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Minion said:
I like my Dungeon as stealthy and cunning, so no thank you for mino-brutes ruling Dungeon.
Read Richard Knaak's Minotaur Wars Trilogy. It'll show you what stealth and cunning Minotaurs are capable of.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted March 17, 2015 03:32 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 15:33, 17 Mar 2015.
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Minion said:
Avirosb said:
Stealthy and cunning? Well that rules out Dungeon as we I know it.
FTFY.
Not really. All they use is magic. Minotaurs use magic.
Well, used magic. Back when they weren't Tauren Light.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 17, 2015 03:42 PM |
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I love how people here say that minotaurs used to rule Dungeon... and then these same people complain that minotaurs never got a chance.
I'm sorry, but you guys literally contradict yourselves.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted March 17, 2015 04:01 PM |
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Sligneris said:
I love how people here say that minotaurs used to rule Dungeon... and then these same people complain that minotaurs never got a chance.I'm sorry, but you guys literally contradict yourselves.
People who say Minotaurs used to rule Dungeon are wrong. They never ruled Dungeon. Minotaurs were never more than a partner in a coalition of races at their best times (H3&H4)
Minotaurs always had to share the spotlight with Humans. And also Trogs in H3 and also Efreeti and Orcs in H4.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted March 17, 2015 04:02 PM |
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lol at this silly bickering guys,
"the most popular Heroes® title of all time" also happened to include minotaurs as the dominant race in Dungeon, with not a dark elf in sight, so I'm pretty sure their replacement has far less to do with popularity and far more to do with the horrible taste of Erwin and Richard Dansky
when Ubi give us a vote on Minotaurs vs Dark Elves, which I'm well aware they never will hue hue hue, then we can argue popularity
also I resent any racism to the tune that minotaurs are mindless brutes incapable of pulling off anything and everything dark elves can do, play Heroes 4 lol
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted March 17, 2015 04:02 PM |
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Sligneris said:
I love how people here say that minotaurs used to rule Dungeon... and then these same people complain that minotaurs never got a chance.
I'm sorry, but you guys literally contradict yourselves.
I only believe the latter, but those aren't really contradicting.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted March 17, 2015 04:05 PM |
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Edited by Minion at 16:06, 17 Mar 2015.
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Kudos to you guys if you find a huge muscular half-bull more stealthy than an elf.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 17, 2015 04:12 PM |
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Minion said:
Kudos to you guys if you find a huge muscular half-bull more stealthy than an elf.
^This.
I was just about to type that, but you beat me to it.
To be perfectly honest, I said what I value the most about dark elves is their particular culture and society.
What would be so interesting about minotaurs?
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Greenlore
Known Hero
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posted March 17, 2015 04:13 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
yeah, they also go under the name "dwarves"
actually no,thats not entirely true.
In norse mythology there are Dökkálfar (Dark elves) and Svartálfar(black elves) and it is commonly believed that the Svartálfar are dwarves(but it is unknown if this is really true or if they simply lived in the same realm) and it is pretty much unknown if the Dökkálfar are dwarves,the same thing as the Svartálfar or their own thing.
Seeing how the dungeon and fortress are both subterran factions who are known to fight over the underground territory it is actually quite possible that this was inspired by the dwarves and the svartálfar living in the same realm.
So yeah Dark elves are a thing in mythology.The whole "dark elves are actually dwarves"-thing is just a theory.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted March 17, 2015 04:17 PM |
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Greenlore said:
actually no,thats not entirely true.
In norse mythology there are Dökkálfar (Dark elves) and Svartálfar(black elves) and it is commonly believed that the Svartálfar are dwarves(but it is unknown if this is really true or if they simply lived in the same realm) and it is pretty much unknown if the Dökkálfar are dwarves,the same thing as the Svartálfar or their own thing.
Seeing how the dungeon and fortress are both subterran factions who are known to fight over the underground territory it is actually quite possible that this was inspired by the dwarves and the svartálfar living in the same realm.
So yeah Dark elves are a thing in mythology.The whole "dark elves are actually dwarves"-thing is just a theory.
thanks for clarification 
must say, i've never heard of these "dökkálfar" before. any more info or links to for me to skim?
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted March 17, 2015 04:18 PM |
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Elvin said:
At the same time, since ubi took over the series I can't help but notice a high amount of complaints about the inclusion of numerous racial units(elves in particular) in the lineups or 'Ashanification' of existing creatures into something.. different. Obviously, I do not favour repeating the classic lineups ad infinitum nor am I averse to seeing new units everytime we get a new heroes game.
I also don't mind getting different line ups every game. If that would be a bother, I would have been pretty much angered by H3. The inclusion of another race of elves to compose another faction is a little overwhelming, in my point of view. Mostly because I felt like having another, perhaps having its first appearance, faction guided by another intelligent race, or even add one of the other factions people also like. But my taste and opinion on that is heavily influenced by the fact that I don't care about the lore. When H5 came, having all those dark elves did bother me, in spite of anything. I did miss the old Dungeon, when dark elves weren't seen anywhere, when we had trogodites and minotaurs as heroes. When I played with dungeon, I felt it tainted by something else, some external familiar cliche.
Quote:
Regarding the racial-themed creatures I see two issues:
One, when we get more than 2 such creatures in the lineup. In my mind, they always come at the expense of a cool mythological unit that could have been in their place, something far more exciting. Or at least less generic than them...
Same thoughts, really. In my mind, I don't care if there are too many beasts, if they can be tamed and controlled by any intelligent and dominant race. I didn't like Fortress in H5 because it was so human-like. 2 would be a good number at most. That would also give a better natural feeling for each faction and their respective looking, overview (town screen). I mean: as I'm seeing these new heroes, all units seem to have a need to have civilized buildings to be found and hired. I miss the time when you could hire units in a forest, or find them in caves, lairs, lakes, waterfalls, gardens, dead woods etc. Now we have structures built for every one of them, few exceptions. It's likely you'll have a Dragon Temple to hire dragons, for example.
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Two, when some of those units do not serve a specific, unique purpose or gameplay...
There's room for very interesting line ups - if they dare. But it seems they want to make everything only too balanced, as if all factions could and should have the same advantages and disadvantages between themselves in a completely orderly fashion. This is not accurate. Some factions are stronger than others, are better suited to fight against certain kinds of enemies, are better skilled in magic, and so on. They are all becoming too bland, similar, even if having different units - units they are not giving enough uniqueness.
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Regarding Ashanification:
I am hardly against seeing a new spin on known units or entirely new units. I am not satisfied however by the way ubi goes about it, at least in some cases.
As I see this issue, if they are not having their 'native' ability or feature, why don't they make a new unit instead? What everyone, everyone knows about Medusa? Petrifying gaze. Period. Another example, although it's a different matter, is that of the Lich, which had the 'native' ability of the toxic cloud. It's a Heroes trademark ability related to Lich. And cutting that out, something that we learned to associate with Lich as we learned the petrifying gaze to be Medusa's, feels like a great insult. Why? I really don't know. The same question as why they changed medusa in that heretic game they stubbornly call H6, or chops off the head of a cerberus. Not too long before we see a unicorn with no horn or a chimera composed by 1 animal only.
****
I'm particularly not too bound to iconic units either. I could give an example of a Necropolis line up without lich and vampire. For me, they could very well go along as heroes - but also considering game mechanics would explore heroes a bit more than just as statues with a magical wand - magic and might. With some deal of creativity, another line up can be proposed with interesting mechanics and play role. The only thing I would really demand having is that those iconic units were bound to the faction in any form, as long as they don't fit anywhere else.
Griffins (griphon) went from Warlock to Castle, to Preserve, back to Haven. I don't see a problem in that. For me, of course, who doesn't give a damn about the lore in this particular game, specially because I don't find it attractive - no offense to those who enjoy or who have written it. It simply doesn't reach me.
I wouldn't mind having a completely new game presented. Even if it was starting to go beyond the boundaries of TBS, as long as it presented interesting mechanics, some fun game play and balanced graphics/sound and yes, a story. As long as it wouldn't be so silly, poor-feeling, boring as H6 was, I would be mildly content.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted March 17, 2015 04:27 PM |
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the Dungeon, I might add, was never stealthy in the original concept when it was the Warlock faction lol
it has far more to do with destructive spellcasting and lust for raw power, which the minotaurs embody perfectly
turning the obvious choice for main race into slaves and putting in dark elves instead lol, it's just ridiculous, you might as well randomly make slaves out of the wood elves and have Sylvan ruled by bugbears for all the sense it makes lol
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted March 17, 2015 04:27 PM |
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Sligneris said:
To be perfectly honest, I said what I value the most about dark elves is their particular culture and society.
What would be so interesting about minotaurs?
The problem there is that you're document isn't the current guideline anymore.
This is.
Something I came up with several years ago. LINK
It does not have the same depth as my more recent work, but that shouldn't matter. Whatever Dark Elves are, or could be, Minotaurs can be too. The problem is unwillingness of suspension of disbelief.
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