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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted July 14, 2016 02:01 AM |
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Edited by frostysh at 02:09, 14 Jul 2016.
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Actually I have meet some religious folk before, including the Christian ones, and this meetings has no good memories too me, so sometime I can even make my affords to say something against Christianity and the stuff..
Anyway my knowledge about Jesus Christ and his .. followers mostly obtained from a cartoons  which based on stories from The Holy Bible.
Elodin - The first I want to type, the THANK you, I have my doubts that someone will respond to my asks and I will must to read a stuff from Wikipedia  .
I have learned a many new English words from your post too, this is cool.
" In beginning, God created all things material and immaterial. He is the First Cause of all things. God fills and transcends the universe." - This is looks like a "S. Hawking's Big Bang Theory" that I saw on "National Geographic" documentary.
"God created one man & one woman to begin the human race" - It's sounds little bit weird for me, but okay. Why it's so weird if you asked? Because perhaps would be better to create a many men & women to begin a human race. Anyway, if God decided, so be it. Perhaps The God has a reasons for it.
But I have read (when I making my answer to the "Volcanic Wastelands - Your favorite color" thread on this forum.) that the human beings take their roots from a monkeys (of course I read it before, but not take attention to the Evolution Theory exactly) - Human Evolution, anyway I have no found a good explanation How exactly the monkeys begin to evolve into humans, so, perhaps there was The God, and The God created first "Adam/Eva, Eva/Adam".
Actually, if we take a explanation are from a Holy Bible
"Who exactly was a first, the male - Adam, or a female - Eva, created?"
"The Bible is a book about the redemption of man. When man sinned he "died" spiritually" - And what a sin exactly man did. There was a murder or raping, or torturing (I have heard some history about the "Apple of Sins" or something, but actually I have no curios before.) or what?
"The Bible was written through the infallible inspiration of God It has a number of human authors but the Spirit of God is the ultimate author
The Bible is composed of the Old Testament and the New Testament. The Old Testament covers the time and covenants before Jesus Christ." - I am little bit, I have no know a proper word in the English, frustrated perhaps.
Let me think - The Old Testament has been written by the the infallible inspiration of God, or the New Testament? If under inspiration of God your have mentioned a Jesus Christ, so Old Testament was written by no Jesus Christ the inspiration of a God?
About the "human authors" - the Old Testament and the New Testament was written in the same place?, or in the different places, Were this places well connected (I mean by trading ways, roads, etc), or this places was disconnected???
The "number of human authors" that have written a New Testament, can read the Old Testament before???
How old was Jesus Christ, in mortal terms when he written a New Testament?
"The "Old Testament" is not as relevant to Christians as the "New Testament" is because the OT covers "Old Covenant" times including some things that were only intended for Jews in Israel." - When I playing in the "Civilization 3", this is a cool PC-Video-Game, strategy of making your civilization a great one (or make it just to survive on the SID difficulty ). I must open a first "Monotheism" that leading to the religions (about Judaism religion I know even less than I know about Christianity..),
So the Judaism and Christianity is well connected? Judaism is similar to Christianity or a very different? I saw that Judaic folks using to crosses with a Jesus Christ but some-kind of a star (David's start as I know).
"The New Testament is the part of the Bible that is specifically Christian. Jesus established the New Covenant through his sacrificial death and resurrection." - Wow, I saw this scene in the cartoon there was some earthshaking too. So Jesus Christ murdered by Romans? I know something about Roman Empire - that was a well organized republic/empire based on slavery.
So the Resurrection and the earthshake is a pretty non-common things , perhaps a writes from a roman empire made a scrolls about this ??? As I said, they was stupid but a well organized.
And anyway, Why roman empire actually killed Jesus Christ?? Because they believed in different pagans gods?
"Hell is described as a place of torment and Heaven as a blissful place where we will know our God as deeply as He knows us" - A very good that I have no serious sins, if I am even die tomorrow, and then somewhere , someone ask me - "What bad you did in your life?" I will answer, nothing a very bad, even if I have did something not a very polite because of my emotions, I made apologizes about this, and I tried to correct all this mistakes. My life way was a straight goodness and justice as possible.
But this is obviously not because I am Christian or I love a God, or I love a Jesus Christ, actually I have a, hmmmm, a very non-pleasant emotions, and thinking, and feelings, etc about Christians that I have meet, and about a muslims and their ... Islam too...
I do not know why I have typed all this, perhaps I have drink too much of boiled water...
". . . By the time of Noah most of mankind had become very corrupt. - Wowow, the "time of Noah"? The same Noah who have a huge ship that is actually saved the all life on the Earth after the grand water fluid ? O-o (I saw cartoon about this ).
So actually, WHEN, WHERE (I mean where on the Earth Noah began his journey) this obstacles have happened? And I know that in the Earth there pretty many , A PRETTY MANY living things, so how all of this stuff can be placed inside the single ship? O_o . The God have helped with this to Noah?
And actually all this living things a highly scattered through the Earth, how Noah can collect them all, i.e. Monkey from South America and the Fossa from Madagascar O_o.
Anyways in Bile something told about the animals that was unknown for the place where was Old Testament written.??
"God called Abraham out of a pagan nation and He learned to trust God and became a "friend" of God. Later the Law was given by God to Moses and Israel was formed. Most of the Old Testament covers the period of the Covenant delivered through Moses." - I have fully, I do not know a proper word in English, in non-understanding state...
The God in which the Judaic folks believes , is the same God in which the Christians believes ? Or not? Or judaic folks believes in the "true one" God, but in wrong way? They must use a crosses instead of their stars, or what?
The New Covenant - is the somekind of a Law, i.e. there explained how must be a , I do not know, a punishment for a murdering an innocent human, for raping, the punishment for a slavery? a marriage ???
Again thanx for the answers .
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 14, 2016 07:04 AM |
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Quote:
The "Old Testament" is not as relevant to Christians as the "New Testament" is because the OT covers "Old Covenant" times including some things that were only intended for Jews in Israel.
Easily one of the worst excuses to pretend that inconvenient teachings do not really stain your religion.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted July 14, 2016 09:08 AM |
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Zenofex said:
Easily one of the worst excuses to pretend that inconvenient teachings do not really stain your religion.
Easily one of the worst accusations, since the main figure of the religion denies them
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted July 14, 2016 09:40 AM |
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1. Old Testament is the same teaching like New.
2. Old T. is for primitive people living in tribes so is easy.
3. New T. is for modern society. More advanced. And final.
4. Big Bang theory autor is belgian priest not Hawking.
5. Evolution is only theory. Man has brain to use it and thinking about World.
6. Old T. was written by Jesus too. But no in human body.
7. New T. was written by Jesus in human body living on Earth.
8. Fistborn sin is a reason of pain in our World.
9. If you build your person for bad after death you are bad and it means hell. Logic.
10. If you build self good after death you are good and it means heaven. Logic.
11. If you are bad but you in end of life want be good you died dirty but God give you chance to clean. It is purgatory.
12. Bible teach that God is in Israel religion. Ancient religion of course not in present.
13. Cartoons are only cartoons. If you interest Bible watching it it means are good.
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 14, 2016 11:31 AM |
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Not terrible wrong there Baronus but tecnically Jesus himself did not write anything biblical in His flesh. Word of God is inspired by Holy Ghost so you could say God has written the Bible as it's He who have given the Words in begin with. Another minor note, seperating people to bad and good does not show the full picture, as the God says: Every man is a sinner and only by grace of God we can be redeemed, the forgiveness is essential with out it, you have no eternal life. "Good" can be a saved person but I don't like identify myself as that, I am what I am, only thanks to Him and what He has done for me.
On the old testament vs new testament subject it's clear that new testament is more important because it has the teachings of Jesus and explains the new covenent we are now in, thanks to our Lord Jesus. Old testament in another hand is much more than an history book! Relationship with God and a man, you come a cross very colorfull people of God. The basic strugles of life, Love of God and His Holy precense is majestically viewed in old testament. Who ever says, OT is irrelevant has no idea what kinda treasures it holds. For "newbies" we always recommend NT of course that they would know Jesus better. Same Spirit that inspired the NT was with the profets who waited the Messiah, tould exactly what will happen several hundreads years before. King David's life and his psalms, what great parts of the bible. People are either ignorant or just looking for excuses when they go poke OT saying: Look what they did? As it where any relevant today.
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted July 14, 2016 11:40 AM |
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I'm not in the mood for long posts, also, I don't want to boot my PC, so I'm on a tablet.
Anyway, on the subject of the Old Testament, the importance is that it's about history, and it talks of the origin of the world and of the hebrew tribes, as well as their laws.
It also describes how the Hebrews have always fallen when they wouldn't listen to the word of God.
And finally, it is where the prophecies were written, otherwise when they are mentioned in the Gospels you wouldn't get the context, as well as many epithets attributed to our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted July 14, 2016 01:14 PM |
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Edited by Kayna at 13:19, 14 Jul 2016.
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Religion is fantasy. George R.R. Martin's ancestor wrote the bible. It's why there's so much cock and death in it.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 14, 2016 01:21 PM |
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Baronus said:
1. Old Testament is the same teaching like New.
2. Old T. is for primitive people living in tribes so is easy.
3. New T. is for modern society. More advanced. And final.
4. Big Bang theory autor is belgian priest not Hawking.
5. Evolution is only theory. Man has brain to use it and thinking about World.
6. Old T. was written by Jesus too. But no in human body.
7. New T. was written by Jesus in human body living on Earth.
8. Fistborn sin is a reason of pain in our World.
9. If you build your person for bad after death you are bad and it means hell. Logic.
10. If you build self good after death you are good and it means heaven. Logic.
11. If you are bad but you in end of life want be good you died dirty but God give you chance to clean. It is purgatory.
12. Bible teach that God is in Israel religion. Ancient religion of course not in present.
13. Cartoons are only cartoons. If you interest Bible watching it it means are good.
1./2./12. If so, let only primitive people in tribes modify their life according to it.
3. No, it is not as old as the OT but it predates anything that can be called a modern society by centuries.
4. The Big Bang isn't "written" by a single scientist, it's true that the one who came up with the idea, Georges Lemaître, is a Christian, yet:
Those few authors who do take a closer look at Lemaître’s ideas on religion and science usually summarize his position with the statement that according to him there are two ways to truth: the way of science and the way of religion. Two ways which Lemaître wanted to keep separated. However, he remains in a strained relation between both. As a scientist, Lemaître adopts a ‘methodological atheism’. As a roman-catholic priest, he sees no difficulty in stating that from the point of view of science the concept of ‘God’ is meaningless. After all, the concept of ‘God’ cannot be written as part of a mathematical equation, nor can it be deduced from experimental data. On the other hand, as a deeply religious priest Lemaître does indeed recognize the existence and validity of metaphysical knowledge as it has been revealed in the Bible. Albeit with a crucial difference: the only metaphysical, revealed knowledge from the Bible which can claim truth and validity is knowledge which pertains to ‘salvation’. However, ‘salvation is intrinsically a religious, theological concept which strictly belongs to the particularity of Christian religion. In other words, outside the context of Christian religion this concept has no meaning. Therefore, the fact that the Bible contains quite some parts which are scientifically unsound doesn’t bother Lemaître in the least. He freely acknowledges that in this matter the writers of the Bible were no more inspired than any of their contemporaries. Only what is necessary for ‘salvation’ belongs to revealed knowledge.
This is the modern theological approach that I've already talked about, which cherry-picks. And they have to really... Too many incompatibilities in cosmology.
5. This statement only shows you are completely ignorant about the terminological meaning of the word "theory." It doesn't mean a guess or a hypothesis.
6./7. No, not even according to Christian doctrine, neither the OT nor the NT was directly written by Jesus himself. They are both a collection of texts with many writers, some anonymous some not.
8. If you take that story literally, it's quite immoral actually because sin/crime of two people (which is just a simple disobedience) determines the fate of all mankind, where as crimes should actually be punished individually.
9./10./11. That was not even the subject, being good or bad has nothing to do with belonging to a certain religious group.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 14, 2016 01:36 PM |
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Or maybe it's just that you are angry towards any religion Kayna. It's easy to make such accusations but are they logical when looking deeper? I would combare religion more to philosophy as it is most pasts viewing life and living it best of your knowlage. I would understand that combarison even tough it would be false. Giving religion labels like: "just another fantasy tale" Just, says you haven't rolled over that rock yet and it's easier to mark it: stupid, un intellectual and a big lie, even when you have no idea of the subject.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 14, 2016 02:01 PM |
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I'm not Kayna, actually. Lol. maybe, it's him that you relate anger with, hence the lapsus. And no, the mythological aspect of religion (which is quite hardcore in Abrahamic ones) is of course fantasy and that "only the faithful can see the emperor's clothes" pretense is just in vain. You have no trouble considering thousands of other religion's myths as myths, yet when it comes to yours, you demand special treatment. "But it's so much deeper..." Just because something is mystical or ancient or traditional, doesn't automatically mean it's very deep.
And I'm not angry at Christianity and if you notice when Christians post among each other about theological details, I really don't care. Markkur's post was about more than Christianity though with pretty inaccurate conceptualizations, so I wrote about it and then we had another post that basically got everything wrong and I replied etc etc, it's the internet as usual. That doesn't make me angry. I just have some time to type at the moment.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted July 14, 2016 02:03 PM |
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Old Covenant vs New Covenant
Of course the Old Testament Scriptures are not irrelevant. There is much we can learn from them. But the New Testament is "more relevant" to Christians because the New Testament Scriptures contains the teachings that are specifically for Christians, who are under the New Covenant of Jesus rather than the Old Covenant of Moses. Once a Christian has a good knowledge of the New Testament Scriptures he can study the Old Covenant Scriptures and see the beautiful harmony of the Scriptures and truths that lie beneath surface meanings. We learn line upon line, precept upon precept. As we study and live truths we learn we are able to see other truths.
The Old Covenant given through Moses required animal sacrifices. Animal sacrifices could not remove sin but "covered" sin until Jesus, the final sacrifice of sin fulfilled (completed) the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant, having been fulfilled, is old. No longer in effect. The Old Covenant ceremonial law about hand washings, animal sacrifices, "clean" and "unclean" foods, various feasts, ect, were relevant for Old Covenant people but the Old Covenant is no longer in effect. These things the Bible calls "types and shadows" that pointed to Christ. Christ, the ultimate reality these things foreshadowed, has come.
The Old Covenant also had had civil laws that were only intended for governing the nation of Israel. These civil laws do not apply to Christians. The church of Jesus is not a geographical nation like the nation of Israel.
I should not have to say this, but new is not old. Old is not new. Jesus established the NEW Covenant, which differs from the OLD Covenant or it would not be New.
Jesus gave us the "sacrament" of communion to celebrate the New Covenant (New Testament) that came into effect with his death and resurrection. The Old Covenant was completed, the New began.
Quote:
Matthew 26:
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Quote:
Hebrews 8:
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
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Revelation
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted July 14, 2016 02:40 PM |
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@artu
To be fair, Kayna posted above you, I think that was the post Homer was referring to.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 14, 2016 02:44 PM |
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Edited by artu at 14:44, 14 Jul 2016.
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Ooops. Haven't seen the one Kayna posted, we probably posted around the same time and since I also happen to call myths myths, I thought he was referring to me. Sorry, Homer.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted July 14, 2016 04:00 PM |
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Oh I'm just joking. Religion is, to me, once again, one of these ideological package deal, where you're somehow stuck taking everything or nothing, often via peer pressure.
But I'm well aware of this modern misdirection, where we, the atheists ( and all it's variants ) are taught how religions are evil when they've been separated from the state a long time ago, which makes us point fingers at religion when we should be pointing it at our government.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted July 14, 2016 05:48 PM |
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You are right if its: "money religion" , "islamists religion" etc. Its kind of ideology. Created for people dirty business but not a Christ!
Big Bang idea is form Lemaitre. I thought about this priest.
God written is ofcourse a methapohre. Litterary it is God's Word! God told, man wrote. With precision. Its is so big wisdom that people cant invented it. Peoples religions are like ancient Greeks. Zeus, Dionisos, Apollon and other legends. Very weak and poor. If you compare it with eg. Isaias you see it is not people but God Word. God means Father, Son and Holy Spirit as we see in story with Abraham and Lot. There are Three Person of One Good.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 14, 2016 05:53 PM |
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Kayna said:
which makes us point fingers at religion when we should be pointing it at our government.
i point fingers everywhere, at everything that needs pointing fingers at. not that anything i point out will ever make any difference whatsoever for as long as i live, tho.
so ignore me. i'm just blasting my super soaker into the ocean here.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted July 14, 2016 05:55 PM |
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Zenofex said:
Quote:
The "Old Testament" is not as relevant to Christians as the "New Testament" is because the OT covers "Old Covenant" times including some things that were only intended for Jews in Israel.
Easily one of the worst excuses to pretend that inconvenient teachings do not really stain your religion.
Nonsense...not at all. If the New Covenant did not exist and I only had the O.T. today, there would be no Christianity with only prophetic scriptures pointing to Christ and I sure would not be a Jew in either sense of the word...by birth or Faith.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted July 14, 2016 06:14 PM |
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Neraus said:
I'm not in the mood for long posts, also, I don't want to boot my PC, so I'm on a tablet.
Anyway, on the subject of the Old Testament, the importance is that it's about history, and it talks of the origin of the world and of the hebrew tribes, as well as their laws.
It also describes how the Hebrews have always fallen when they wouldn't listen to the word of God.
And finally, it is where the prophecies were written, otherwise when they are mentioned in the Gospels you wouldn't get the context, as well as many epithets attributed to our Lord Jesus Christ.
yeah, my Internet went down after my last post TO FRED and now there is scads to address. Look for my Christ versus the Modern Christian Church soon to come. I doubt I will make anyone happy but I hope at least a few will see the picture of what has happened to the Lord's One Church.
--------------------------------------------------
Folks, Fred is a big boy and can discuss his POVs, he does not need a cabinet of atheist-lawyers to blaze away for him. Had OUR discussion really went anywhere, I could have seen HIS objections or not. Then that same discussion could have progressed in an orderly way and then if need be...another or others join.
Btw, for the record, I asked him ONE open-ended question (only expecting his response to that one question) and he responded with personal questions directed conversationally to me (tell me if I was wrong about that Fred and you really were wanting to create a tribunal). His words "no offense to you Markkur" should have been some sort of restraint to you all but as usual in this place it was not. Had this been a fist-fight? you guys would have been swinging away. C'mon show some class.
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 14, 2016 06:37 PM |
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@Kayna: I know, you where just messing around but truth is people are still pointing fingers and barking up the wrong tree. People have problems and they shout: Why don't God help? Even tough they haven't crossed fingers to make a difference in that area (literally). I just wish people would could come out of that stereotypical thinking you mention and make their own mind, rather than the public opinion of the mather, religious or any other that ideal.
@artu: I knew you would never throw a low punch like that, because you are too smart for that 
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 14, 2016 07:10 PM |
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markkur said:
Nonsense...not at all. If the New Covenant did not exist and I only had the O.T. today, there would be no Christianity with only prophetic scriptures pointing to Christ and I sure would not be a Jew in either sense of the word...by birth or Faith.
Don't know man, is it nonsense what I said or that an omniscient and omnipotent being who knows everything that was, is and will be suddenly changed its mind and said "OK, now do this, the old ways are obsolete". That would be a mental disorder of godly proportions.
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This thread is pages long: 
