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| Thread: Pros and Cons of H1, H2 and H3 |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted January 05, 2023 04:06 AM |
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Pros and Cons of H1, H2 and H3
I'll start by naming just one of each which would be at the top of my list. But you can name as many as you like.
H1
Pro: Simple gameplay compared to the sequels but still quite fun and immersive
Con: No marketplace
H2:
Pro: Improved spell system
Con: no unique heroes; all heroes from one town have the same starting skills and no specialty
H3:
Pro: Introduction of the Town Hall/City Hall/Capitol
Con: Useless skills such as Learning and overpowered skills like Earth Magic
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 05, 2023 11:39 AM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
H1
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Con: No marketplace
I see that as a good thing. It allows for interesting map designs. Like, on some smaller maps, there is only only 1 gem mine, and everyone has to fight for it.
With marketplaces you can just gather a lot of resources and it will work somehow.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 05, 2023 02:02 PM |
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Unique heroes are a scarecrow in H3, basically you have 2 super heroes then all the others having same characteristics within two classes, as in H2. On paper it looks nice having tons of creatures and spells specializations but in battle it has almost no effect, aside Shakti - and even that is combat effective only a few days.
I would say the main superiority of H3 comes from 3 things which made H2 was very flawed, especially in multiplayer: a) introduction of combat wait function, b) the so much asked fix when recruiting heroes without full movement/full army after running a battle and ultimately c) the fix of speed superiority without possible counters, by introducing speed artifacts, shackles of war then speed boosting terrains.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted January 05, 2023 03:19 PM |
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heymlich said:
Drakon-Deus said:
H1
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Con: No marketplace
I see that as a good thing. It allows for interesting map designs. Like, on some smaller maps, there is only only 1 gem mine, and everyone has to fight for it.
With marketplaces you can just gather a lot of resources and it will work somehow.
Maybe, but I'd prefer having the marketplace to be able to trade resources on most maps.
@Sal: I agree, especially about Wait.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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RottenDrake
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 05, 2023 04:26 PM |
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h3 is better imo as it builds upon what what h1 and h2 did, it's a clear evolution, h4 and up things kindof have changed
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 05, 2023 05:22 PM |
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Edited by heymlich at 17:24, 05 Jan 2023.
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Drakon-Deus said:
@Sal: I agree, especially about Wait.
Yes, that really bothers me whenever I go back to H1/2. It is a small thing, but added a lot more to combat than a bunch of new creatures or spells.
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martingalindo
Hired Hero
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posted January 05, 2023 07:57 PM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
Maybe, but I'd prefer having the marketplace to be able to trade resources on most maps.
@Sal: I agree, especially about Wait.
I agree, no market place limit your options on how to play the game, and even with market place the exchange ratio is so bad that in most situations you prefer conquering the mines.
Yep wait is a great feature
Agree with most of the orinal post H3 have many bad skills and also i dont like the archangel being the best fighter and have a amazing skill (resurrection) on top of that
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 05, 2023 09:55 PM |
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martingalindo said:
i dont like the archangel being the best fighter and have a amazing skill (resurrection) on top of that
Well, that was supposed to make up for the fact, that castle generally has crappy units. Unfortunately, unlike H1/H2, H3 Castle unit's are pretty good. 
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ArdentWyrm
Famous Hero
King of the Elder Dragons
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posted January 05, 2023 10:17 PM |
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make up?, the make-up made was not a good one, I mean they should balance it, not make it overdog instead of underdog, IMO castle is easiest faction in RoE.
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Torment is blinding. It lies. Its pollution steals my sense. It promises: destroy everything and the pain will cease.
- Kralkatorrik
https://dragcave.net/user/ArdentWyrm
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 05, 2023 11:20 PM |
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Well, that's exactly what I'm saying, isn't it?
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ArdentWyrm
Famous Hero
King of the Elder Dragons
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posted January 05, 2023 11:51 PM |
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Yeah, I guess so, but just saying in the later HoMM games, castle/haven was so OP, I hated them.
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Torment is blinding. It lies. Its pollution steals my sense. It promises: destroy everything and the pain will cease.
- Kralkatorrik
https://dragcave.net/user/ArdentWyrm
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martingalindo
Hired Hero
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posted January 06, 2023 01:26 AM |
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heymlich said:
Well, that was supposed to make up for the fact, that castle generally has crappy units. Unfortunately, unlike H1/H2, H3 Castle unit's are pretty good.
Yea thats true in H1 and H2 castle has bad units but cheap: Crusader, besides DMG vs undead (when it becomes very handy) is maybe the weaker in H2.
And yep in H3, castle did not have bad at all Thats why i balance Archangels down (and make them cheaper) and buff other tier 7 creatures to compete.
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 06, 2023 09:22 AM |
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Edited by heymlich at 09:23, 06 Jan 2023.
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martingalindo said:
And yep in H3, castle did not have bad at all Thats why i balance Archangels down (and make them cheaper) and buff other tier 7 creatures to compete.
That's one way to do it. However, the real reason why castle is so easy to play are the low tier units. Marksmen do a lot of damage and have no losses since they are ranged. They also come in high numbers and their external dwellings are very common on random maps. Pikeman are cheap and can take quite a punch, you can let the marksmen do the damage and use pikes as meat shields while the marksmen stack grows. Compare that to Inferno, which is stuck with imps and gogs 
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martingalindo
Hired Hero
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posted January 06, 2023 11:29 PM |
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heymlich said:
That's one way to do it. However, the real reason why castle is so easy to play are the low tier units. Marksmen do a lot of damage and have no losses since they are ranged. They also come in high numbers and their external dwellings are very common on random maps. Pikeman are cheap and can take quite a punch, you can let the marksmen do the damage and use pikes as meat shields while the marksmen stack grows. Compare that to Inferno, which is stuck with imps and gogs
True, inferno low tier are super bad, and also expensive IMP is a worst version of Goblin and more expensive.
-In fact Imp is worst than gremlin and cost 20 more.
-And familiar (aside his skill) is a Master gremlin without range that cost 20 more gold
But i dont only change tier 7 creatures i put effort to do somehow more balance that the base game, the problem comes when i want to add skills like no melee penalty to Orcs thats where i am still learning about how to make it work
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ArdentWyrm
Famous Hero
King of the Elder Dragons
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posted January 07, 2023 01:20 AM |
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about marketplaces: map editors let you ban marketplaces in towns in H3.
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Torment is blinding. It lies. Its pollution steals my sense. It promises: destroy everything and the pain will cease.
- Kralkatorrik
https://dragcave.net/user/ArdentWyrm
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 07, 2023 08:33 AM |
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Edited by heymlich at 08:34, 07 Jan 2023.
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ArdentWyrm said:
about marketplaces: map editors let you ban marketplaces in towns in H3.
I know. But that prevents you from building the City Hall, Capitol, Resource Silo and Artifact Merchant. This can be compensated with more mines as long as factions are not random, but the real issue here is, that the resource silo is required for the Upgraded Gorgon Layer. And Fortress without Mighty Gorgons is simply unacceptable.
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martingalindo
Hired Hero
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posted January 07, 2023 06:23 PM |
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Maybe you can see if you can change the requeriments of previus buildings using MMarchive it should work
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 07, 2023 07:19 PM |
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Edited by heymlich at 19:21, 07 Jan 2023.
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I didn't want to make a mod. Just cleaning out random maps before playing them.
@topic:
What do you guys think about the fog of war, that was introduced in H4?
Personally, I hate it. Scouting already explored areas again and again is annoying, not to mention, you can only have 8 armies.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted January 07, 2023 07:43 PM |
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I like fog of war in some other games like the RTS Warlords Battlecry III (where it's optional, by the way), but I didn't like it as much for HoMM.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 07, 2023 07:54 PM |
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I like non permanent fog of war, as in Heroes. Just tried recently last Master of Magic game, it has permanent fog of war, once you step out from the area, it closes again. A turn off for me.
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