|
| Thread: Faction Discussion — Sylvan! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
TheJoker
Tavern Dweller
|
posted April 08, 2025 06:38 PM |
|
|
The_Green_Drag said:
It’s evident that the pool of folks who actually think Slyvan is a good fitting name for the faction is rather low.
Is it really? Or do you just want it to be low?
Because afaik the Sylvan naysayers are a vocal minority.
For clarification, yes I think the name Sylvan is fitting well for this faction, I said as much before.
I miss the Unicorn's, but I have no problem otherwise.
Tbh I've read enough on this topic by now, I will peace out of this thread until new info arrives.
|
|
Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
|
posted April 08, 2025 07:34 PM |
|
|
The_Green_Drag said:
I’ll assume this is the result of folks who didn’t bother with heroes 7, and now they’ve gone 10+ years without a new heroes game so they’re more accepting. I remember how up in arms everyone on this forum was over a spider in necropolis. It’s ironic to me how one addition is detrimental to a faction’s theme while another faction can have its entire identity swapped with another, but it’s just fine.
My issue (and I think most people's issue) with the spiders was moreso that the entire faction theme was purely centered around them. The heroes had spider legs coming out of their back, liches did too before they were redesigned, the town had spider legs, half the heroes had spider tattoos, the vampires had spider swords. And now, on top of all of that, they put spiders in as a creature despite knowing that the spider theme was unpopular. Spiders became the mascot and the central identity of the faction. And they did all of this after creating a forum that was ostensibly meant to solicit community feedback because they knew these design changes in H6 were deeply unpopular. If they had simply added undead spiders in without all of the over the top nonsense, or hadn't pretended to care about community input, I don't think the reaction would have been nearly as severe.
The other issue with this comparison is that Necropolis has been one of the most thematically consistent factions across all of its appearances. Sylvan has been one of the least consistent. It hasn't even used the name Sylvan in this lore before. The only time this faction has actually been the same faction between games is the Sorceress in H1 and H2 if you don't include Ashan, which IMO you shouldn't.
____________
|
|
MurlocAggroB
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 08, 2025 10:45 PM |
|
|
LordInsane said:
I find the aqualot annoying for its thematic conflict; it's an obviously preter- or supernaturally water-themed creature that in terms of name inspiration (axlotl, obviously), clade myths and folklore, and precedence from MM8 has fire associations, with no indication of that in the creature itself.
I have a complex opinion of the aqualotls.
The link between salamanders and fire is kinda interesting. Salamanders will sleep in logs on occasion, and when ancient humans would throw those into fires, they would scurry out and it would appear like the fire had given birth to the salamanders. In large part, we have DnD pulling from the works of Pliny the Elder to thank for salamanders and fire still being so prevalent in fantasy. On the other hand, axolotls specifically aren't part of that. They are purely aquatic, and I've never seen axolotls specifically ever be linked to fire. Maybe you can point out a case I don't know of, but it's not in pop culture the way terrestrial salamanders are. So, it doesn't bug me that much, even if I do like the mythological connection.
Now, the creature in a vacuum... ehhhh. I don't love having a purely pun-based creature on the lineup. I think I hate it more conceptually than I do in execution, however. The model looks good. It matches with the other Sylvan creatures, and even kinda substitutes for the faerie dragons that I had hoped would be Sylvan-aligned. But, thinking about seeing the lineup and one of the slots is just "Aqualotl"... I don't like it. I'm fine with one-off silly neutral creatures, but when it's a town creature I like it less. Also, maybe this is getting too deep, but it feels kinda trend-chasey. Axolotls are hot right now, they've been a beloved animal for the last decade after spending a lot of time in obscurity. Of all the aquatic animals, I don't think picking this was a coincidence.
As for ties to MM8, whatever. It's important to respect it, don't get me wrong, but I don't find this to be lore-breaking or disrespectful. It depends on what the creature's lore ends up actually being, but I'm not offended by a water spirit taking the form of an aquatic animal. If a water elemental can be a fish-headed snake with tits, then it can also be an axolotl. That's fine.
|
|
MattII
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted April 09, 2025 11:10 AM |
|
|
|
I do wish we'd get some actual images of the creatures, not screenshots, but like the paintings we got in Heroes 7.
|
|
kesnarii
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted April 09, 2025 07:38 PM |
|
|
|
I keep reading about aqualotls, but I can't find where they announced them... Can anyone lead me there?
|
|
MurlocAggroB
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 09, 2025 09:51 PM |
|
|
kesnarii said:
I keep reading about aqualotls, but I can't find where they announced them... Can anyone lead me there?
They haven't been officially announced yet, but screenshots of them are visible and the name Polar Aqualotl was leaked in one of the playtest videos.
You can see them in the Google doc
|
|
purerogue3
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 09, 2025 10:15 PM |
|
|
|
^I got trauma reading those hero bios
|
|
TrueMefista
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted April 10, 2025 12:07 AM |
|
|
MurlocAggroB said:
. But, thinking about seeing the lineup and one of the slots is just "Aqualotl"... I don't like it. I'm fine with one-off silly neutral creatures, but when it's a town creature I like it less. Also, maybe this is getting too deep, but it feels kinda trend-chasey. Axolotls are hot right now, they've been a beloved animal for the last decade after spending a lot of time in obscurity. Of all the aquatic animals, I don't think picking this was a coincidence.
A lot of things are obvious attempts at virus marketing or hopes it becomes a meme.
With quilin in lineup, the water spirit option always could have been a kappa (not Ashan-style), or atleast a tortoise.
|
|
DIEGIS
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
|
posted April 10, 2025 03:25 PM |
|
|
I like sylvan and I dont like bugs ))
____________
dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
|
|
MurlocAggroB
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 10, 2025 03:59 PM |
|
|
TrueMefista said:
A lot of things are obvious attempts at virus marketing or hopes it becomes a meme.
Such as? Other than the aqualotl (which I think is less "making a meme" and more using a popular animal that hasn't been popular traditionally) I can't think of any examples.
TrueMefista said:
With quilin in lineup, the water spirit option always could have been a kappa (not Ashan-style), or atleast a tortoise.
Agreed. I would've preferred something from actual mythology as well. Or if it was gonna be an axolotl, if it was just called "Spring Spirit" or something more generic.
|
|
TrueMefista
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted April 10, 2025 08:39 PM |
|
|
MurlocAggroB said:
Other than the aqualotl, I can't think of any examples.
Well, the kitten thing and how there is a hero who is one, with "fancy a crystal treat" in bio, deliberate "funnies" like that. Or Groo, cutesy marketables.
|
|
Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
|
|
posted April 10, 2025 10:58 PM |
|
|
Seeing how elvish the fae look in the story trailer can we agree that this at least isn't a total betrayal to call Sylvan?
____________
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 11, 2025 12:41 AM |
|
Edited by Stevie at 00:49, 11 Apr 2025.
|
They've deliberately made fauns appear more elvish than human with those long and pointy ears to have them give off that impression, and although the result pleases the Warcraft fan in me, it comes at the expense of classical representation. They'd fit Sylvan as an external creature anyway without having to resort to that, but to say they are replacements to actual elves is a bit of a stretch to me. It's obvious that Unfrozen is giving it their best shot to reconcile prohibitive lore and faction expectations, because it's clear to them that fans want elves. But they can't have elves in Jadame, so they're giving them a lookalike. Which to me is Unfrozen wanting to have their cake and eat it too. They could have diverted those expectations instead by selecting a better faction identity than Sylvan, which I think was preferable. Or maybe have dark elves mercenaries as a slight twist to the fantasy, but I don't really think that would have been better thematically than what we have now, I'm just entertaining the notion more than anything.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
|
|
Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
|
|
posted April 11, 2025 04:03 AM |
|
|
Fair enough, although I don't necessarily think "have their cake and eat it too" is the best way to put it. Like you said they're trying to reconcile the lore with the fact that Sylvan is a fan favorite faction that people are expecting.
They're already introducing a brand new faction and reworking another fan favorite classic in Inferno to the point where they had to rename it. I think if they also renamed Sylvan despite what are IMO much more minor changes they would be taking a pretty big risk. Especially because Stronghold and Academy are totally absent so far, Dungeon is effectively the Ashan version because of the setting being Jadame, and Haven now being Temple because it's evil.
Maybe you're right though. There definitely seems to be a bigger difference between Ashan Sylvan and Jadame Sylvan than there is between Haven and Temple. I really do think that the fact that Sylvan was never what the faction was called in this universe is a point that can't be overlooked, though. It's not like they're calling a town without elves or dwarves Rampart.
____________
|
|
Etharil
Shaper of Lore
|
|
posted April 11, 2025 04:26 PM |
|
Edited by Etharil at 17:54, 11 Apr 2025.
|
Since the dawn of the series, the mystical and fable-like forest towns have been one of the mainstays of the Heroes of Might and Magic games, with only one notable absence in Heroes VI. Though present all around, nature factions varied a lot from one game to another. In Heroes I and II it was represented by magical, almost fairy-tale-like towns of Sorceress. Heroes III included mystical Rampart and elemental-based Conflux. Heroes IV focused its Preserve around animal creatures — both mythical and real — and in the world of Ashan the central figures of the Sylvan faction were wood elves.
Read more in our devlog about Sylvan!
____________
|
|
LordInsane
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 11, 2025 04:34 PM |
|
|
Stevie said:
They've deliberately made fauns appear more elvish than human with those long and pointy ears to have them give off that impression, and although the result pleases the Warcraft fan in me, it comes at the expense of classical representation. They'd fit Sylvan as an external creature anyway without having to resort to that, but to say they are replacements to actual elves is a bit of a stretch to me. It's obvious that Unfrozen is giving it their best shot to reconcile prohibitive lore and faction expectations, because it's clear to them that fans want elves. But they can't have elves in Jadame, so they're giving them a lookalike. Which to me is Unfrozen wanting to have their cake and eat it too. They could have diverted those expectations instead by selecting a better faction identity than Sylvan, which I think was preferable. Or maybe have dark elves mercenaries as a slight twist to the fantasy, but I don't really think that would have been better thematically than what we have now, I'm just entertaining the notion more than anything.
I don't think dark elven rangers or druids would have been a thematic stretch, to be honest. The forest-exploring archer is very much in line with MM8's Alvarians, and they'd still look reminiscent of the classic theme, just (literally, not morally) darker and more red.
|
|
Etharil
Shaper of Lore
|
|
posted April 11, 2025 05:30 PM |
|
|
The season of Spring is upon us! As the flora and fauna around the world awaken, so does the forest of Murmurwoods rise to uncover its secrets!
Join us as we show you the sneak peak of the Sylvan — a faction where fey guardians of nature and the elementals live in unison, defending their unique homeland from outer threats as various heroes, including elves, aid their efforts. The faction's playstyle will be focused on utility, each unit having its own unique abilities that will provide you with a lot of variety in your fighting choices — from empowering the rest of your units to boosting your magical capabilities — the defenders of Murmurwoods march forward to ensure their place in Jadame is secure!
____________
|
|
LordInsane
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 11, 2025 05:35 PM |
|
|
Etharil said:
Since the dawn of the series, the mystical and fable-like forest towns have been one of the mainstays of the Heroes of Might and Magic games, with only one notable absence in Heroes VI. Though present all around, nature factions varied a lot from one game to another. In Heroes I and II it was represented by magical, almost fairy-tale-like towns of Sorceress. Heroes III included mystical Rampart and elemental-based Conflux. Heroes IV focused its Preserve around animal creatures — both mythical and real — and in the world of Ashan the central figures of the Sylvan faction were wood elves.
Read more in our devlog about Sylvan!
Minor criticism specifically about this post - the link is specifically to the Polish language version.
|
|
Etharil
Shaper of Lore
|
|
posted April 11, 2025 06:46 PM |
|
|
LordInsane said:
Etharil said:
Since the dawn of the series, the mystical and fable-like forest towns have been one of the mainstays of the Heroes of Might and Magic games, with only one notable absence in Heroes VI. Though present all around, nature factions varied a lot from one game to another. In Heroes I and II it was represented by magical, almost fairy-tale-like towns of Sorceress. Heroes III included mystical Rampart and elemental-based Conflux. Heroes IV focused its Preserve around animal creatures — both mythical and real — and in the world of Ashan the central figures of the Sylvan faction were wood elves.
Read more in our devlog about Sylvan!
Minor criticism specifically about this post - the link is specifically to the Polish language version.
Fixed! Cheers!
____________
|
|
Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
|
|
posted April 11, 2025 07:48 PM |
|
|
I can't wait for the full reveal. Usually Dungeon is my favorite faction but I think it's going to be Sylvan this time around from what we've seen so far. Is that the town theme in the trailer?
____________
|
| |
|
|
