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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted November 30, 2015 12:47 AM |
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Laser70 said:
The experiment shows that those 20 grand elves are dead, there is nothing more to it. I like the scientific method rather than mindless accusations.
What experiment? Did you split the troops as I suggested and gave Alamar the same 3 of spellpower you wanted for yourself? No heroes start with giants while several start with elves, 7+14 equals 21 not 20, it's easy to find a level 3 dwelling then a level 7 in most maps, so many miss regarded variables in a way that allows you to create the only experiment that will prove your point.
You call this "the scientific method"? Have you ever heard about a falsifiable hypothesis? In "the scientific method" the researcher tries by all means he can imagine to prove his hypothesis to be false and "if he doesn't succed", he can say he has reasons to believe it "can be true" and submits this idea to pier-review.
We (your piers) already gave you reasons why we think you should reject your hypothesis and what do you do? You distort an experiment to prove you're right.
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Laser70
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 30, 2015 12:59 AM |
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Edited by Laser70 at 01:20, 30 Nov 2015.
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bloodsucker said:
Laser70 said:
The experiment shows that those 20 grand elves are dead, there is nothing more to it. I like the scientific method rather than mindless accusations.
What experiment? Did you split the troops as I suggested and gave Alamar the same 3 of spellpower you wanted for yourself? No heroes start with giants while several start with elves, 7+14 equals 21 not 20, it's easy to find a level 3 dwelling then a level 7 in most maps, so many miss regarded variables in a way that allows you to create the only experiment that will prove your point.
You call this "the scientific method"? Are you a creationist? Have you ever heard about a falsifiable hypothesis? In "the scientific method" the researcher tries by all means he can imagine to prove his hypothesis to be false and "if he doesn't succed", he can say he has reasons to believe it "can be true" and submits this idea to pier-review.
We (your piers) already gave you reasons why we think you should reject your hypothesis and what do you do? You distort an experiment to prove you're right.
I gave it a minimum of a week, it wasn't a precise number, because there are none, it depends on what buildings you have, how many dwellings you have, how many towns you have, statue of legion and any of the separate parts of the statue of legion. I gave it a minimum of a week, unless the battle took place at the end of the week.
You don't need to give alamar the same 3 spell power because none of them had any spell power nor did they have any spells. And if Alamar had any spell power, he wouldn't be able to utilize it until it was too late, because as I've said many times already, The Titan hero would be able to blind it first, and by that time the Titan is shielded, stone skinned and elves cursed. You wouldn't be able to utilize any spells for winning that battle, by that time its too late. The titan has the first move. In a worse scenario, the titan side could put disrupting ray, that would be serious business, on the blinded elves.
If you split them up in the order you specified, maybe. I can't tell, I would rather want to test that out rather than speculate. But if the elves are in a big stack, I already know the outcome of that.
A chain lightning strike could remove those smaller stacks very quickly, so I would want to test it out. If successful and all the smaller stacks disappear, I would only need one more round to blind the last big stack, unless he puts anti magic on the last one, then it would have to be solved mano a mano.
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
channeling capybara energy
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posted November 30, 2015 01:37 AM |
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Your methodology is fundamentally flawed, so your results are invalid. Furthermore you disregarded the original point of contention via a strawman fallacy. You disgust me, troll.
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Friend-shaped
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MeKick
Hired Hero
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posted November 30, 2015 10:15 AM |
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Edited by MeKick at 10:16, 30 Nov 2015.
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Laser70 said:
I like the scientific method rather than mindless accusations.
lol, gave me a good laugh.
Sure got me there -- I couldn't have done better myself even if I tried.
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Maag
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 30, 2015 11:38 AM |
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Edited by Maag at 12:03, 30 Nov 2015.
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Why u guys compare so much level 7 to level 3?
Those are two completely different types of things.
Titans are dragon slayers, or if u wish, dragon competitors.
Quite logical to have them in endgame, if u have money to upgrade to them.
If not, nothing else to talk.
Yes, Grand Elves are great, i like both elves and titans, but i have to say whenever i play with Rampart, whole game tends to turn out "how i protect my elves".
I never liked Inferno too much, but i have to admit their Cerberus is amazing. I would treasure them more than Elves. Like little hydra, can attack 2 guys together without retaliation and nice stats 
But yes, if compare G. Elves to Evil Eyes or Orc Chieftains, then's Elves win by landslide.
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Laser70
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 30, 2015 11:56 AM |
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Edited by Laser70 at 13:09, 30 Nov 2015.
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Maag said:
Why u guys compare so much level 7 to level 3?
Those are two completely different types of things.
Titans are dragon slayers, or if u wish, dragon competitors.
I would never compare the Titan up against a level 3 unit, the only reason I made an exception this time was because some people compared the price tag of the titan up against lower ranked ranged units, and I had to demonstrate that the Titan is very different stuff and that the price tag is worth those bucks.
Other than that, I would never compare it up against level 3 units, the Titan is there to take care of the bigger guys.
If one pays 4500 gold for 20 Grand Elves there is a limit how far they will reach, they will slowly wear down and would need to be reproduced back home in the town after a while, if one pays 5000 gold and 2 gems for 1 titan, you could wipe the entire map clean without losing it (Assuming all the unit stacks around the map consists of small weak units)
In that, demonstrates that the price tag of a Titan can't be compared with the price tag of a greater number of smaller ranged units.
It basically comes down to quality. Quantity in itself is good, but if something needs to sustain and you want to keep it for a long time, you need quality.
As I said earlier, if you have 1 titan, all you need is cure. If you have 20 grand elves you would need resurrect to keep those elves alive. Cure is available very early on.
So the 1000 extra gold and 2 gems is worth it compared to the 20 grand elves. (If you lose 1 grand elf in every battle, thats 225 gold pieces lost every time)
About what you said about "Protect my elves", I think that they need to be protected of course, but the main strength of weaker units is that they can be reproduced quickly, there is no ultimate formula to keep them alive, because they will die frequently. The main strength is the number in which they can be reproduced, that's the main strategy in weaker units.
I remember a match I had, I think I had 70 titans with pretty much all the basic beneficial spells on them, and 1200 grand elves on the other side, they vanished very quickly, totally gone after very little time, so personally, I don't see how Grand Elves really can survive much of anything really, they die very easily. That is why I like stronger ranged units, cyclop king is a very good one, because it can take down walls too, but its very strong.
I like ranged units that can survive, I just hate to reproduce them after each battle, that is why I prefer the Titan as the main ranged unit, but of course it takes some time to get to them, meanwhile I have to rely in arch mages and master genies blessing them.
In the end, even if the titan is a level 7 unit and Grand Elves is a level 3 unit, they are competitors, when it comes down to the real thing, they will compete on the battlefield. Some units just become natural competitors even if they were not meant to be competitors. Had the Titan not had the ranged capability, the Grand Elves would not have needed to see them as competitors, but they are competitors and thats a bad thing for the Grand Elves.
Speaking of overpriced. The Giant is overpriced, there can be no doubt about that, that thing is way too expensive for its worth. But the Titan is not, it just isn't. The things you get with it is worth every single gold coin.
Let's do a real comparison, level 7 vs level 7. If we compare a Titan vs Ancient Behemoth, 5000 gold vs 3000 gold. Would you pay 2000 extra gold to make the Ancient Behemoth have these extra capabilities:
+5 extra attack
+5 extra defense
+10 extra on the minimum damage
+10 extra on the maximum damage
+2 on speed
* Become immmune to all mind spells
* Capable of inflicting full damage in a ranged attack
Is all of those extra things worth 2000 extra gold? Absolutely. Not only is it stronger, faster, but because of its immunity to spells and its ranged attack, a whole world of new strategies can be applied to it.
Let's take a very simple example, let's assume that there is a battle between an ancient behemoth and a titan. The ancient behemoth would have to waste the first spell on anti magic, the other side could waste his on beneficial spell. There is already a difference in the strategy already in the very first spell casting, the titan side doesn't have to worry about negative mind spells cast upon it so it can focus on putting beneficial spell on itself.
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Maag
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 30, 2015 01:08 PM |
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Edited by Maag at 13:31, 30 Nov 2015.
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Even i've played a lot with Tower i would say also, Titan or Giant or whatever from that Town, there are no effective creatures for beginning, except Nagas, but they are slow. Forget upgrade them in first week.
If u play Against AI, then there's completely different matter, u can always dismiss your main with army and start new one and still win, lol 
If u would like to do much in the beginning, go for some other faction.
Even Inferno's Cerberus if u can upgrade to it, isn't bad at all.
U can't get Devils, esp. Arch D-s quickly anyway.
What's the idea it is, whatever town u play, for hard game, which have opponent similar to your level, Tower would be probably among the worst ones to pick.
Exactly because of terrible beginning.
In game of extreme amount resources and good place to start, Tower might survive. But yet, even then....
3 people vs 3 other people on XL map. Tower could be good supportive force, fully develpoed Tower army can match whatever other faction. But then.. how many these games we have?
Sadly for me, as a Tower fan, i realize this town is rubbish.
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Laser70
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 30, 2015 01:55 PM |
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Edited by Laser70 at 14:46, 30 Nov 2015.
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Maag said:
Even i've played a lot with Tower i would say also, Titan or Giant or whatever from that Town, there are no effective creatures for beginning, except Nagas, but they are slow. Forget upgrade them in first week.
If u play Against AI, then there's completely different matter, u can always dismiss your main with army and start new one and still win, lol
If u would like to do much in the beginning, go for some other faction.
Even Inferno's Cerberus if u can upgrade to it, isn't bad at all.
U can't get Devils, esp. Arch D-s quickly anyway.
What's the idea it is, whatever town u play, for hard game, which have opponent similar to your level, Tower would be probably among the worst ones to pick.
Exactly because of terrible beginning.
In game of extreme amount resources and good place to start, Tower might survive. But yet, even then....
3 people vs 3 other people on XL map. Tower could be good supportive force, fully develpoed Tower army can match whatever other faction. But then.. how many these games we have?
Sadly for me, as a Tower fan, i realize this town is rubbish.
I too am a tower fan and because I like it so much I would want it to be a choice in multiplayer games that is why I think it needs to be rebalanced a bit. It's sad to see it go to waste because the units are cool.
If not rebalance the game, put a password on all tower towns, so to fight a tower town you first have to enter a password in order to be able to fight it, the password doesn't have to be very long, perhaps a digital password between 1-10 so there is 1/10 chance to be able to fight a tower town. The owner of the town can set passwords on the entry to the town, but the number must be 1-10, so it is possible to guess it, and special tower garrisons with passwords.
3 attempts per day, if wrong password is entered, the attacking hero will be automatically transported to the edge of the map. 144 squares away. Tower being a faction of great magic, it's not unthinkable they may have that technology to do that. But it would have to be balanced well, so they don't become too powerful, perhaps 6 password attempts per day is more reasonable. That would help a great deal in the early phase for tower players. But the password must have a time limit so it expires, can't have passwords in mid to late game because that would be unfair. 3 months of password protection, then it expires.
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
channeling capybara energy
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posted November 30, 2015 04:23 PM |
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Friend-shaped
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Laser70
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 30, 2015 05:05 PM |
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I think the forum can appreciate a few relaxed offsets from daily importance.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted November 30, 2015 11:26 PM |
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Laser70, I would not called your posting style relaxed, but I don't hate it either.
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Laser70
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 01, 2015 12:28 AM |
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Edited by Laser70 at 00:33, 01 Dec 2015.
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Drakon-Deus said:
Laser70, I would not called your posting style relaxed, but I don't hate it either.
Difference of culture, politically correct at one side and not on the other side. Clash of cultures.
Some cultures are so politically correct that if you correct them in something is considered a betrayal of the country. I have to keep them at distance, because they are incredibly annoying.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 01, 2015 01:00 AM |
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Laser70 said:
Drakon-Deus said:
Laser70, I would not called your posting style relaxed, but I don't hate it either.
Difference of culture, politically correct at one side and not on the other side. Clash of cultures.
Some cultures are so politically correct that if you correct them in something is considered a betrayal of the country. I have to keep them at distance, because they are incredibly annoying.
I don't disagree, but this thread is for discussing HOMM 3 tactics, right?
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Laser70
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 01, 2015 01:21 AM |
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Edited by Laser70 at 01:22, 01 Dec 2015.
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Drakon-Deus said:
Laser70 said:
Drakon-Deus said:
Laser70, I would not called your posting style relaxed, but I don't hate it either.
Difference of culture, politically correct at one side and not on the other side. Clash of cultures.
Some cultures are so politically correct that if you correct them in something is considered a betrayal of the country. I have to keep them at distance, because they are incredibly annoying.
I don't disagree, but this thread is for discussing HOMM 3 tactics, right?
It's for discussing tactics, and not for posting troll images. (Unless it's an actual heroes 3 troll)
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 01, 2015 01:42 AM |
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I don't think you are a troll Laser. And I don't care what others think about you, I have my opinion.
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Laser70
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 01, 2015 02:21 AM |
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Edited by Laser70 at 02:28, 01 Dec 2015.
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Drakon-Deus said:
I don't think you are a troll Laser. And I don't care what others think about you, I have my opinion.
hehe, yes I appreciate that. Thanks. We're the elites, I already knew you were intelligent.
Or maybe just wanna-be elites, but at least heroes 3 elites, in small doses.
But i don't like making this thread more offtopic than it already is, so I hope the next few posts gets back on topic again.
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Laser70
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 01, 2015 06:05 PM |
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Edited by Laser70 at 18:13, 01 Dec 2015.
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Most people know about the weaknesses of Tower, the negative aspect of Tower has had its run, I think the few who play Tower would appreciate some positive solutions, how to get around those weaknesses. Again, we know about the weaknesses already, so more positive input would be more appreciated, some tactics advice, we like positive minds, because Tower is a very positive faction. Also, what kind of measures could be taken to rebalance it so Tower becomes a more viable choice.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted December 01, 2015 06:48 PM |
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Laser70 Tower is perfectly fine as is. If you wan't an easier time playing Tower, go get HotA, here Tower is easier and cheaper to build. Otherwise play at lower difficulty or play better. 
I don't really wanna change anything, in relation to Tower, besides what HotA already did.
I recently found out Tactics is not a bad skill for Tower and then you of course need Wisdom and Earth Magic and Air Magic and Archery is highly recommended. So focus on bulding those creature buildings (just the downgraded, so you at least produce the creatures) Then focus on building those mage guilds and library, as Tower revolves around magic.
But Tower is not a bad town (Well it could be if half the spells are banned) if you can get the gold and ressources for it and I believe Tower is better on larger maps.
Are we done with Tower for now...
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 01, 2015 07:27 PM |
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One thing I would agree was to Tower automatically build the Library when one builds mage guild level 1.
Is an absurd for the already overpriced Mage Tower to require another plus 5 of each resource and another build to be upgraded and to have imediatly 6 different spells is still a poor compensation to play a faction that has Solmyr as one of her best heroes.
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Maag
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 09, 2015 11:06 AM |
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I would like to share detail with Frenzy spell.
Casted on Arch Devils for example, it should be one of the best combos, astronomic attack sill.
I used 15 AD's in game to attach 14 Titans, first saved and tried without Frenzy, well, they killed 4 Titans, 10 were left.
Attack skill of my hero was 21. AD had 47 attackthen. Expert Offenso i had too, hero - Nymus.
Then i decided to do the same, but attack with Frenzy casted on AD.
Attack was now 149 (sic!).
Hit Titans. I was hoping they either wipe them out, or have 3-4 left.
No, 7 of them left.
Recently became obsessed to play Inferno, don't know why. I like their mobility. If u can build them up, they are actually very fast, Pit Fiend kills really nicely and Cerberi are amazing, yet i feel efreets drop dead very quickly and AD doesn't kill like i was hoping. 
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