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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted May 03, 2005 10:59 PM |
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Quote:
Here in Canada, there is this Bill C-38 in the House of commons that is being debated to change the traditionnal definition of marriage. I say the ideal is very much become a reality. As it stands now, the bill will receive second reading and it will get a very close vote. It is producing alot of debate in the House and people all over are talking about it. This issue in Canada is more than an ideal. It is our way of doing things and going to work, as you say. Soon (hopefully), we will hear kids playing with other kids that have 2 moms or 2 daddies. To me this ideal you speak of will become reality in less than 5 years.
This is pretty much the situation in Norway as well. The Norwegian laws allow gay marriage, if I'm not mistaken, but leave it to the individual priests if they want to actually perform the ritual or not. The "public servants" who perform the secular marriage ritual have no choice, iIrc.
The next big issue here, is gay adoption. Which at the moment seems to become possible in juat a few months, as the coalition consisting of the Socialists, Social Democrats and Norwegian Conservatives (aka the Agrarian Party) looks to win the election in September, and all these parties are positive towards gay adoption. So are some of the center and rightwing parties.
So, all in all, the question of gay marriage is pretty obsolete in these parts of the world. 
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted May 04, 2005 12:05 AM |
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Well from November, gay marriage becomes legal in the UK. (Look out for Elton John's - I'm sure it'll be on TV).
I'm not too sure where the British government stands on gay adoption though.
To be honest it was never an option I considered myself using, if I want a child I'll find a nice accomodating lesbian who wants the same and we'll do the turkey baster trick and voila.
What I find weird is Concis' views on sex education coming from same sex parents.
If I had a child - can you imagine me telling them anything other than the truth about where babies came from?
In all reality, any child of mine will be extremely well raised, it will have 2 moms and 2 dads looking out for it, which is 4 times the parent than a lot of kids these days get.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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LadyGuenivere
Known Hero
Spam Deep-Fryer Mod-Repellant
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posted May 04, 2005 01:41 AM |
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Yaaaay!! Discussion time!!
IMHO of gay adoption, I believe that the reason that it is wrong is because the child will not have a mother (or father, maybe, I'm not biased on that either way)and it is proven that children without a caring adult male and adult female in the house often do not have the emotional and mental stability of a child that does. True, The "parents" could have a close friend of the opposite sex who the child could talk to, but if they're not around the house, it's not the same. And besides, now, not only do they have 2 mothers or 2 fathers, they have 3 parents total! That could get rather confusing, especially when one doesn't even lve there. But, I can see LE's view on it, and I see her point. It basically all depends on what you believe.
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What happened to Lady Guiniwhere anyway?
- FoG
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted May 04, 2005 03:12 AM |
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Quote:
any child of mine will have 2 moms and 2 dads looking out for it, which is 4 times the parent than a lot of kids these days get.
Quote:
it is proven that children without a caring adult male and adult female in the house often do not have the emotional and mental stability of a child that does.
errrrr.... confusion.
Also, it is not proven that children without a caring adult male and adult female in the house often do not have the emotional and mental stability of a child that does. If it were, it would be illigal and for good reason. Frankly, I'd like to see the scientific journals of psychology you found that in since I did my honors in psych and never seen such an article. Besides, how would you go about testing it?
Terje and Asmo:
It's nice to see that some nations are so liberal and have made so much progress. Man, I thought Canada was at the forefront with these ideologies and look here in Norway they're talking about gay adoption!! DANG!
That's really nice to hear.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted July 01, 2005 04:48 AM |
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Spain legalizes
Gays in Spayn have a reason to celebrate. The socialists legalized same-sex marriages on an equal level with opposite-sex marriages. The only other countries to have done this are Belgium and Nehterlands.
I'm flying tomorrow to Spain, and even though it looks bad, its not the reason you think it is.  I'll get in a parade if i see one though. It will be fun.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted July 01, 2005 01:13 PM |
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Hahaha, Svarog!
Canada already did this a few days ago, as well. It was officially the 3rd country in the world to do so. Either way, here are some articles on both issues.
Canada
Spain
I'm just glad to see that acceptance & tolerance are becoming more prominent across the planet.
P.S. Today is Canada's birthday...Happy Canada Day!
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2005 01:21 AM |
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ah ah, Léo ... it isn't legal yet, it has passed the house of commons side and the bill is now before the Senate for final approval. There might be some filibusters there before it becomes law...
Some might say it's only a matter of time now, but the Senate does have the right to send it back to the house for more thought and more debate...
in any case, it is very much closer.
FYI, the Senate always sits latter than the house to pass all the remaining bills before recess. So as we speak, the Senate is still sitting, even if the house is not.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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mr_niceguy
Famous Hero
of power
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posted August 12, 2005 08:15 AM |
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Yo, sorry to revive an old thread...
i'm totally okay with gay people
anyway what i want to ask is:
I know there are many refferences in the bible sayin same gender sex is wrong, BUT i'd like to know if anywhere it says that:
you can't have a "more than friends" relationship with other members of the same gender
you can't kiss another member of the same sex
you can't love another member of the same sex as if they were your husband/wife
you can't THINK about having sex with another member of the same sex
so far i've only read things about gay intercourse being wrong, and not every relationship is about sex, what about the relationships just about love, and romance.
(btw i'm not saying there isnt anything about it i'm just asking if there is. sorry if this has been said before)
Edit:
PS: im not gay
Edit 2:
yo anyone out there?
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a stich in time saves nine... what the hell does that mean?
If u enjoy telling ur friends of how uve never been beaten with ur own legs, u'd rethink making a comment
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted August 12, 2005 06:19 PM |
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yes..but I dunno
I'm ok with gay people as long as they don't kiss in front of me LOL!
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The darkest skies show the brightest stars
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mr_niceguy
Famous Hero
of power
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posted August 13, 2005 08:33 AM |
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So far i have reason to believe the bible does not prohibit same sex relationship, only same sex intercourse, am i wrong? i seriously want to know...
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a stich in time saves nine... what the hell does that mean?
If u enjoy telling ur friends of how uve never been beaten with ur own legs, u'd rethink making a comment
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 13, 2005 02:23 PM |
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Does it really matter what some men wrote 2000 years ago? Use your brain and make up your own mind.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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mr_niceguy
Famous Hero
of power
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posted August 13, 2005 02:43 PM |
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i really just need some evidence to prove a certain friend wrong about a certain something, that is why i wanna know if there is any reference in the bible against same sex relationship, not same sex intercourse, just a relationship.
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a stich in time saves nine... what the hell does that mean?
If u enjoy telling ur friends of how uve never been beaten with ur own legs, u'd rethink making a comment
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted August 16, 2005 05:49 AM |
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The New Revised Standard translation of Romans 1:26-27: "For this reason [idolatry] God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and recieved in their own persons the due penalty for their error."
"Consumed with passion" is something less than sex. Is this the kind of passage you're looking for?
____________
 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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mr_niceguy
Famous Hero
of power
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posted August 16, 2005 06:02 AM |
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well the passage says consumed with passion, but i dont think it said they were punished for it, yet the men were punished for "shameless acts".
actually i'm hoping there isn't anything in the bible about relationship, it would make my feel alot more at ease about homsexuals and bisexuals
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a stich in time saves nine... what the hell does that mean?
If u enjoy telling ur friends of how uve never been beaten with ur own legs, u'd rethink making a comment
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted August 16, 2005 06:36 AM |
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Edited By: Khaelo on 16 Aug 2005
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Hmm, given the context, I doubt Paul was terribly happy about those "consumed with passion." It's described as a consequence of idolatry. But you're right in that punishment follows behavior, not passion alone. The punishiment is even described as "due penalty" of behavior. (On another note: Looking at the translation, I wonder if there's a pun in the Greek. "In their own persons"...Paul wasn't above the occasional word play! )
If you'd like to split hairs, it also doesn't specify what "unnatural" intercourse the women were engaged in. In the Graeco-Roman context, intercourse classification was based on penetration. A man could penetrate anybody and still be manly; to be penetrated was "feminine" and therefore degrading. This looks bizarre to the modern view: gay is gay, who cares who's taking what role? But that's how Classical society framed sex. As a result, lesbian activity was barely considered sex at all. For one thing, it didn't endanger the legitimacy of children (a prime consideration for marriage, and reason for the rampant sexual double standards), and for another it didn't involve penetration. The point of this digression: it's possible that Paul's reference to "unnatural" intercourse was a different sort of penetration, i.e. other orifices, and not lesbianism. The downside of that interpretation, of couse, is that it gets people of many orientations in trouble.
I've been Googling references, and there's a ton of material out there on reconciling the Bible and being gay-friendly. There are plenty of gay-friendly Christian churches. Whosoever has a list of resources dealing with Biblical interpretation. They can probably provide you with better answers than an amateur Classics major. 
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Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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mr_niceguy
Famous Hero
of power
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posted August 16, 2005 06:46 AM |
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YAY!!!!
This means i can be gay/bi and not be disobeying the bible!!! just aslong as i dont have intercourse with another guy!!! that shouldnt be too hard.
Thank you Khaelo, you have just made my day!!!
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a stich in time saves nine... what the hell does that mean?
If u enjoy telling ur friends of how uve never been beaten with ur own legs, u'd rethink making a comment
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted August 17, 2005 09:18 AM |
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To be honest my take on people that trot out Bible quotes for any specific reason is a little jaded.
There are many instances where we as modern peoples and society have broken with Bible tradtition when it's deemed sufficient.
The most frivolous are eating shellfish and not having a rail around the roof of your house incase someone falls off it (flat roofs in those days).
There are also passages in the Bible that deal with Holy regulations about mildew (no joke). So you can pray all day and still go to hell for not cleaning your bathroom?
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted August 19, 2005 03:12 AM |
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Quote:
A man could penetrate anybody and still be manly; to be penetrated was "feminine" and therefore degrading. This looks bizarre to the modern view: gay is gay, who cares who's taking what role?
Hmm, in Macedonian (Balkan? not sure) cutlure, you actually often swear by saying "I 'penetrate' you." Also, when friends joke with each other, usually the cool guy comes out as the 'penetrator' from some abstract word fight, whereas the defeated guy gets to be the 'penetrated'.
So, what does this tell us? Beside that we have a gay-friendly language, Biblical tradition in Macedonia, as you can see is still live and kicking.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted August 19, 2005 07:20 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
A man could penetrate anybody and still be manly; to be penetrated was "feminine" and therefore degrading. This looks bizarre to the modern view: gay is gay, who cares who's taking what role?
Hmm, in Macedonian (Balkan? not sure) cutlure, you actually often swear by saying "I 'penetrate' you." Also, when friends joke with each other, usually the cool guy comes out as the 'penetrator' from some abstract word fight, whereas the defeated guy gets to be the 'penetrated'.
So, what does this tell us? Beside that we have a gay-friendly language, Biblical tradition in Macedonia, as you can see is still live and kicking.
What about "penetrating" each other's mother then? LOL
P.S. Note for others: It's a common curse in the Balkans.
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TheAsgard
Adventuring Hero
Wise and helpful being
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posted August 20, 2005 01:06 PM |
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To all,
I am ashmed and apaled that so many of you can have such negative comments about homosexual peoples. I my self am a Homosexual male and I believe that it is our right to be alowed to be married just as it is the rights of a Hetrosexuals. If two people love each other why should they not be alowed to express that deepness through the act of union of marriage, whether it be in or out of a church. Why should the people of society look down upon us for wanting to be able to live a life in union forever.
For those of you who have the negative comment about whether or not we shoild be aloud children, I say: why should we not be aloud the joys of cherishing and brining a new life into the world. Who care if the child/children have two mothers of fathers. "There are two ways to look at life, one is as though nothing is a mirical, the other is as though everything is a mirical".
Those who think that it is wrong or weird that their are people who love the smae sex you should know a good saying that many should learn from the savage garden song called Affirmation: "I believe that you can't controll or choose your sexuality".
I am not trying to prech my sexuality to anyone I am just doing justice to the world by trying to show that Homosexuals are human as well we are no different to anyone else except in our sexual preferances.
Thankyou to those who are open to our life choices, it is you who will help to shape the world into a way of understanding.
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This thread is pages long: 
