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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted October 21, 2003 05:13 PM |
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Good answer, but what if the child were too stubborn to want to be taught? Or (s)he doesn't have patience to?
Thanks Peacemaker. I really believe that God uses both means. Bible gives us answers and knowledge, but knowledge alone can't unfortunately help us.
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burgessia
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 21, 2003 05:17 PM |
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i would try to tell him/her, that (s)he can`t go swimming until (s)he learns how to do it.
and if the child would jump into swimming pool without me knowing it,i see no point in punishing him/her.
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted October 21, 2003 05:33 PM |
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If there is a god, or several competing gods, I chose the one that loves indiscriminately, lets people do what they want in life, and never punishes or treats them bad because of it.
A vengeful god is not a god I would chose to believe in. And I also believe that god loves gay people, because they are very nice and dont seem to be as hateful as other people.
Some people give a "christian appearance" to outbalance the shiat they do in their lives when noone is looking, its called "de-coupling" = They dont do what they say they do, but hide it with a fasade..
That has given religion a bad name, wich might be a good thing, because today I think people are smart or educated enough to think for themselves instead of reading a book thats more than a millenium old to tell them what to do.
I mean, if someone is stupid enough to have to read that book to know what to do, I sure dont wanna take that persons advice 
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted October 21, 2003 05:52 PM |
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That's the difference, God knows. You can't do anything without Him knowing it. And wouldn't you punish him/her if you see the child continuously, no matter how much you tell and warn, trying to jump into the pool under your watch?
Peacemaker, I don't know exactly which would be the correct one but most of the versions (at least nowadays) are translated from the old Bibles in Heprean or in Greek languages.
The Great Controversy written by Ellen G. White, tells a lot about those times. It is quite old book by now, originally published in 1860 or something.
Thank you bjorn, so kind and encouraging of you.
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burgessia
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 21, 2003 06:06 PM |
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Quote:
And wouldn't you punish him/her if you see the child continuously, no matter how much you tell and warn, trying to jump into the pool under your watch?
punish him/her how?
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Lady_Milena
Honorable
Known Hero
Grannie Sweet Cheeks
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posted October 21, 2003 07:55 PM |
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Milena's patience is over
Okay, now, I stayed away from this thread for some time but it's time for Milena Post!
Same sex marriages?
Hell, no.
Okay, now I know I got you all stares with my religion and personal beliefs with all thumbs for bisexuality. Before you all gape and pass out (and I don't mean it in the old-fashioned sense), I want to make a point here. Same sex marriages? Hell, no, not yet. You ask me why? Here is your why.
1. Before there are any good and valid SSMs, they should be made good and valid by the law. We saw that happening in Dutchland. However, we all know Dutchland is the land of Dutchies (ie nuts, and oh, I -adore- you guys!!) and they have legalized SSMs and smoking pot and all those debatable things from all over the world. But have in mind they're an open-minded and uninhibited nation and these things work with them. AFAIK, some are still not happy, but it works there and that's great. However, not every country is so open-minded. (Actually, almost none is). Think those countries like Italy and Spain. They hardly allow -divorces-! Think what even -trying- to legalize SSMs would be like. Some peeps even on this board are replused by the thought. Have in mind we Net people are slightly more progressive than most people.
Now, tell me, in the country that you live, can you imagine what forces should be summoned and what campaign should be channeled to have SSMs? Dudes, governments can come up and down with even envoking the idea. Until society starts accepting SSMs are something OK, not "sinful" (ah, how much do I hate these "terms") and that homosexual couples are not perverts who are going to breed more perverts, no, I think it's a bad idea.
2. It is important to think of the consequences of such a marriage at this point. Imagine things go magic and the governments do legalize SSMs. How are the couples going to feel? I can fathom it OK in the larger communities but people don't change their beliefs overnight about such basic and delicate issues. People are prejudiced. I do not think such couples - who have had the bravery to go as far as to -legalize- their relationship - are going to receive fair and good treatment from society. Homosexual couples are a FAIR minority, 10% of the population, or rather, should I say, even less because even some homosexual people don't have the guts to go as far a to have a relationship with a person of the same sex. They are largerly misunderstood and people don't tend to be tolerant to what is not on their plate. Sad but true.  (
3. The problem with religion should be solved. Hell, Muslims and Catholics don't even allow women clerics, let alone SSMs! It's going to be a loooong way to go with religion. What's the use of having SSMs when someone will contantly condemn them as blasphemous, immoral, sacriligeous? I know this is what happens to non-married couples now but there's a BIG difference between having an open relationship with someone and going as far as to make it good and legal before God and country.
On this point, as a side note, I want to say just a lil something to those who say NO to homosexual couples.
To those who do not believe in God. If you feel repulsed by homosexual couples, remember all is a point of view. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Differing on sexual matters is the same as differing on political matters. You're not perfect. Neither are others. No one is. Merely because there are so many opinions on what "perfect" means.
To those who do believe in God. Peeps, let me deliver the good news to you. We are all God's children and He loves us all. Are we not equal before Him? How can a perfect parent love one child more than the others?
4. Even if this all goes good and valid and OK, let me remind you that the orginal purprose of marriage is to create children. An issue that's quite hard to be resolved. If laws for SSMs are installed, they should work with this serious issue as well. If the couple is supposedly faithful (that's the purpose of legalizing the marriage, no?), how -could- they have children without cheating?
5. With all this said and done, all obstacles gone, I believe homosexual couples should not have "weddings" but their own kind of rituals. Applying tossing rice (done to wish the couple fertility) and the typical obey/respect rites are mere NOT fitting. I'd feel bad if I am to marry my girl and they toss to me the same ritual for straight couples. Rice and all...
----
Up to here, I've stressed all the reasons SSMs should not or rather, cannot be legalized at this point. There are a LOT of issues to be resolved first before it can happen. But have in mind, I'm not against homosexual marriages, I'd be the first to put my signature under the idea. If people love each other, I'm no one to say no. No one is anyone to say no. And yet, a lot of people do. It makes me feel so angry with them... and yet, I cannot change the world overnight.
Though I'd wish to.
All I say is: good luck to those who want their homosexual relationship legalized. And I mean it in a good way. I admire the courage of those who go for it. Not many do. But those who do, I have my sincere feelings for.
No questions for me, not posting any more to this thread. ;-)
**Milena, Out**
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God does not need exist to save us...
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burgessia
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 21, 2003 08:22 PM |
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how the hell can other people tell us what can we do and what not???it`s just plain stupid.if they don`t like it, it`s their problem, they should solve it.same sex marriages won`t hurt anyone and there is NO reason that they shouldn`t be allowed. allowed? oh geeezz,love is supposed to be allowed?by law???by the almighty and LOVING god???
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted October 21, 2003 08:33 PM |
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Acutally if u wanna be logical..
humans have sex for 2 purposes:
1. fun
2. Making kids
So, its logical to have sex with ppl from the opposite sex to satisfy purpose (2), and with ppl from teh same sex to satisfy purpose (1).
I dont agree myself, as I like women..
but its a great thing to tell the people that say that its unnatural.
You dont want a kid everytime you have sex, so its actually more logical to have sex with a person of the same sex when you dont want a kid, assuming you like it, wich I have a firm belief that I would not do.
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burgessia
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 21, 2003 08:44 PM |
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if you are female,you can have kids without a man in these days
and for now,i just want to have fun
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delfontes
Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
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posted October 21, 2003 08:56 PM |
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I believe in the expression:
"Your right to swing your fist in anger ends at my face."
That is the most basic way I can explain that my views are similar to Norm Petersons "Will it affect the price of beer? no? So what do I care?"
In that context, will same sex marriage cause me any physical pain, no. Will it cause me any financial pain, no. (Tax breaks of a wedded couple already exist in some states for same sex couple, I do not think it would make a penny's difference in what I pay in taxes)
Therefore: I don't care, do whatever floats your boat.
Anyone who passes judgment on someone else who is doing absolutely nothing that does anything to them is a bit naieve in my book.
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted October 22, 2003 04:31 AM |
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Edited By: Khaelo on 22 Oct 2003
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regarding how gays love:
Quote:
Like father loves a son. Brother loves brother. Friend loves a friend.
Wrong! Wrong, wrong, wrong. Just because that's how you relate to people of your own gender does not mean it's how all people relate to others of their own gender, particularly people of other sexual orientations! How can you dare think that you know what love between homosexuals is if you so obviously ignore what homosexuals themselves say of it? I can't think of anything else to say on this -- it shocks me that you would even claim such a ridiculous thing.
Quote:
Yes, you can love another human being without ****ing him to the ***. Sorry for the rude language but that's exactly what we are talking about here.
You, as a man, can love a woman without penetrating her feminine regions, too, right? How fulfilling is that?
[Edit: tweaked wording to my terminology of choice, except for the title, which has a length limit.]
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disguised as a responsible adult
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted October 22, 2003 04:39 AM |
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Edited By: Dingo on 21 Oct 2003
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Quote:
how the hell can other people tell us what can we do and what not???it`s just plain stupid.if they don`t like it, it`s their problem, they should solve it.same sex marriages won`t hurt anyone and there is NO reason that they shouldn`t be allowed. allowed? oh geeezz,love is supposed to be allowed?by law???by the almighty and LOVING god???
******** it doesn't hurt anyone? It hurts my eyes!
Seriously what do you tell 5 year old that ask, "why is the man kissing that man?" What do you say to them?
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted October 22, 2003 04:48 AM |
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Quote:
Seriously what do you tell 5 year old that ask, "why is the man kissing that man?" What do you say to them?
Same thing you say if the five-year-old asks about the man kissing the woman. "They love each other." And give said five-year-old back to his/her parents before it gets into The Talk.
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Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted October 22, 2003 04:54 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Seriously what do you tell 5 year old that ask, "why is the man kissing that man?" What do you say to them?
Same thing you say if the five-year-old asks about the man kissing the woman. "They love each other." And give said five-year-old back to his/her parents before it gets into The Talk.
Really you think its that simple? HAHAHAHAHHAHA Try it First! The child will either be confused or keep asking questions. Plus them seeing that as children could mess them up as adults. I've actually had to explain that to my brother once, and believe me it was difficult. I bet its a conversation that many people don't want to talk to there kids about, and they don't have to tell them about it.
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted October 22, 2003 05:06 AM |
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Quote:
Really you think its that simple? HAHAHAHAHHAHA Try it First! The child will either be confused or keep asking questions. Plus them seeing that as children could mess them up as adults. I've actually had to explain that to my brother once, and believe me it was difficult. I bet its a conversation that many people don't want to talk to there kids about, and they don't have to tell them about it.
Of course it's difficult. People don't like explaining sex to small children. I think it has something to do with society's lingering perception of sex as dirty, but I'm not sure. Since homosexuality is a part of human sexuality, so it's not surprising that it was difficult for you to explain it to your brother. If you really want to avoid sex per se, you can just talk about "love," as the kids will usually be familiar with it from fairy tales.
Seeing homosexuals kiss will not "mess up" a child any more than seeing heterosexuals kiss. What is it with this fear of "messing up" kids? If you don't have the nature part of the homosexuality equation, all the nurture in the world isn't going to make you gay -- just as those people who don't have the nature part of HETEROsexuality can't be made straight by all the straight imagery surrounding them.
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Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted October 22, 2003 05:15 AM |
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I don't have anything against gays its just that i don't like seeing guys kiss or "Get Close." I'm sorry if my arguements/points pissed anybody off. I just a little Stressed and Mad right now. I would delete my posts but they increase my post count so I'm gonna let them be.
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted October 22, 2003 10:35 AM |
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Quote:
Really you think its that simple? HAHAHAHAHHAHA Try it First! The child will either be confused or keep asking questions. Plus them seeing that as children could mess them up as adults. I've actually had to explain that to my brother once, and believe me it was difficult. I bet its a conversation that many people don't want to talk to there kids about, and they don't have to tell them about it.
So you mean to say we are all born with an aversion to homosexuality? (hmm..lol?)
I think it would be really simple to explain to a child..they dun have a clue about our do's and don'ts anyway. The problem would begin when other parents tell their kids how disgusting homosexuality is and then those kids will pick on the one that hasn't been taught that.
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 22, 2003 02:06 PM |
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Quote:
******** it doesn't hurt anyone? It hurts my eyes!
Seriously what do you tell 5 year old that ask, "why is the man kissing that man?" What do you say to them?
I agree with you 110%! It's just like with those filthy, disgusting snowboarders. The other day, I was enjoying a carefully manipulated and tamed piece of snow covered mountain in the proper, God fearing, American way by gliding down the snow on two molded plainks of fiberglass. I was horrified to find that, on my formerly pristine mountain, there were vile beasts gliding down the snow on single planks of fiberglass! Both feet were strapped to a single board! (Oh, the horror!) When I got to the bottom, I heard a young child ask her father why those horrible people were using only one board a piece. I couldn't imagine how the father must have felt as he tried to explain why one would perform such a pervision of winter sports.
I think the kid was so traumatized that she killed somebody on the way home.
Thunder,
Regarding the parent punishing a child analogies, they just don't work because of two things. One, the scale of the punishment. A parent who sends their kid to bed without dinner, fine. A parent who drowns their kid, not so fine. More importantly, a parent is not omnipotent. The Judea-Christian God is. It's one thing to show some tough love to prepare them for risks that are out of your control. It's quite another thing to create those very risks that you are preparing them for. True, you could punish your child (I suggest bolt of lightning or pillar of salt) for wandering towards the pool or trying to play with your gun or looking too much like a christmas ham to your pitbull or you could, I don't know, not install a pool if you've got a 3 year old, not have a gun lying on the table and not buy a pitbull and train it by blood dangling (for the record, I have known many very sweet pitbulls, I understand that the problem with a pittbull is invariably the owner not the pitbull so don't yell at me for using pitbulls as an example). Also, if you're a parent, you don't lock yourself in the attic and never show yourself to your kid. You don't then leave a bunch of lists of rules around, each of which says different things. You don't also send 500 servants down to your kid telling him different, mutually exclusive rules and each claiming to be a messenger from Dad. You don't then punish him for not realizing which list of rules was truly your word and which servant was truly your prophet.
Finally, if there is a God, why do you presume to judge on behalf of an omnipotent being? If God is offended by something, won't he take care of it? If God is horrified by the sight of two men caring for one another, won't he lovingly cast them into an eternal lake of flame to be tormented by all the demons of hell and listen to Barry Manilow for a billion eons?
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Drive by posting.
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted October 22, 2003 03:09 PM |
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Quote:
I agree with you 110%! It's just like with those filthy, disgusting snowboarders. The other day, I was enjoying a carefully manipulated and tamed piece of snow covered mountain in the proper, God fearing, American way by gliding down the snow on two molded plainks of fiberglass. I was horrified to find that, on my formerly pristine mountain, there were vile beasts gliding down the snow on single planks of fiberglass!
WOW... Hold on there partner. Don't disrespect the Snowboarders. Yes the Scenery is beautiful but its even more beautiful when your on a board enjoying it. I am Decitated to Snowboarding. So if you've got a problem with snowboarding, you've got a problem with me.
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 22, 2003 04:08 PM |
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I am aware that you snowboard. That is why I used snowboarding as an example. You objected to homosexuality on the basis of not liking to see it. Some people don't like snowboarders around when they're skiing. Does that mean snowboarders are evil or disgusting? Obviously, you're not a fan of satire.
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