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| Thread: Faction Discussion — Sylvan! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 07, 2025 11:58 PM |
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MurlocAggroB said:
Yes? The entire point is that the names they choose don't really matter, as long as they're communicating the right thing. You are the one blowing up the importance of names, not me. You need to prove why Sylvan isn't a good name for The Nature Faction.
So why are you posting at all? All you seem to be doing as nears as I can tell is ragging on anyone who criticises anything about the information they're releasing. We already know they aren't listening to us, we don't need to be told that.
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Etharil
Shaper of Lore
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posted April 08, 2025 12:23 AM |
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MattII said:
MurlocAggroB said:
Yes? The entire point is that the names they choose don't really matter, as long as they're communicating the right thing. You are the one blowing up the importance of names, not me. You need to prove why Sylvan isn't a good name for The Nature Faction.
So why are you posting at all? All you seem to be doing as nears as I can tell is ragging on anyone who criticises anything about the information they're releasing. We already know they aren't listening to us, we don't need to be told that.
Why would you think that?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 08, 2025 01:14 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 01:32, 08 Apr 2025.
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Etharil said:
MattII said:
MurlocAggroB said:
Yes? The entire point is that the names they choose don't really matter, as long as they're communicating the right thing. You are the one blowing up the importance of names, not me. You need to prove why Sylvan isn't a good name for The Nature Faction.
So why are you posting at all? All you seem to be doing as nears as I can tell is ragging on anyone who criticises anything about the information they're releasing. We already know they aren't listening to us, we don't need to be told that.
Why would you think that?
My apologies, I didn't mean to insult you or the other developers. I suppose I'm just a bit cautious about the whole development process, given the way Ubisoft managed to wreck the previous games in the series.
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LordInsane
Known Hero
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posted April 08, 2025 01:21 AM |
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MurlocAggroB said:
Yes? The entire point is that the names they choose don't really matter, as long as they're communicating the right thing. You are the one blowing up the importance of names, not me. You need to prove why Sylvan isn't a good name for The Nature Faction.
This gives me a bit of inspiration - Sylvan is, of course, a bad name for The Nature Faction because it's a noun for a (singular) resident of the woods, natural or supernatural, while when it comes to locations it's an adjective - which means it could have worked as a hero class name.
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MurlocAggroB
Known Hero
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posted April 08, 2025 02:39 AM |
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See, I agree with that. I don't like Sylvan as a name, never have. A couple pages ago I said that Preserve was the only good name the town has had, and I stand by that wholeheartedly. But I don't like it for linguist reasons, not because OH THE HUMANITY! How DARE they use the Nature Faction name for the NATURE FACTION?! UNRECOVERABLE! ... It's just very silly.
Realistically, no, you do not care that they reused the name Sylvan. You don't. It literally does matter what the town is called. I'm continuing to argue about this because I get so annoyed at people using bad-faith reasons to make themselves irrationally angry about unimportant, made-up things.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 08, 2025 05:23 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 05:50, 08 Apr 2025.
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I'm annoyed, because there seems to be no rhyme or reason to their changes. Of the other four factions that come from the previous games, we have:
Temple - changes names (from Haven), despite few changes in the lineup.
Hive - changes names (from Inferno), along with the entire lineup.
Dungeon - keeps name, with only a few changes in the lineup.
Necropolis - keeps name, with only a few changes in the lineup.
Now compare that to Sylvan, which keeps the name, despite changing the majority of the lineup.
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Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
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posted April 08, 2025 05:56 AM |
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I agree with Murlocc here. It's literally such a non-issue that almost nobody is going to care about except a very small handful of people looking for something to be upset about. This isn't a Heroes 7 situation where the smooth brained middle managers are forcing the devs to make a terrible game nobody wants. I actually think it bodes very well that this is the thing that has generated so much controversy. It really shows, to me at least, that there isn't anything substantive from what we've seen to be upset about and that is a great thing for a franchise that hasn't had a good game in almost 20 years.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 08, 2025 06:24 AM |
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We'll see. If they keep the red-brown grass, that will put more than a few old-timers off I suspect.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 08, 2025 07:53 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 08:50, 08 Apr 2025.
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You guys agreeing with each other is all good and well, there's bound to be people on both sides of the argument. What I don't understand is attempting to downplay a position you disagree with as unimportant, silly, unsubstantiated, made in bad-faith, too dramatic, or that the issue it presents is not worth caring about. It's really not hard for me to look at both sides of things and accept that they exist, then argue on the *points* they make and not on the labels I can give them, so why is it for you?
The "what's the big deal" part I already addressed a few pages back, which is why I think its recurring use is only meant dismissively to shut down conversation. Some people have expectations that aren't met which could be a big deal to them. You might disagree, but you're certainly in no position to decide for them what's important or not. It might not be to you personally and that's fine, though that puts into question why you stick around and engage with them about it repeatedly. It's not a genuine take if you also don't show how this apparently unimportant issue is not worth debating about, is it? You have to consider keeping your thoughts and actions consistent sooner or later.
Ultimately, people are allowed to voice their opinion no matter the size of the issue or if they're in the minority or majority, so that's a moot point. Another point is that what's nitpick to you may be significant to another. Besides, if this thread indicates anything is that people are quite divided on the issue, which is already a red flag in itself if that's what the faction does. I don't want this game to put people in camps when it can easily rally everyone under the same banner with a single word (change).
Etharil said:
MattII said:
We already know they aren't listening to us, we don't need to be told that.
Why would you think that?
Oh? Okay, then listen to this: Grove, instead of "Sylvan".
Come on. Murmurwoods is already described as an ancient grove. Do it. 
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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MurlocAggroB
Known Hero
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posted April 08, 2025 07:58 AM |
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Stevie said:
What I don't understand is attempting to downplay a position you disagree with as unimportant, unsubstantiated, or that the issue it presents is not worth caring about.
I mean, it is when that's my entire point.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 08, 2025 08:40 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 08:45, 08 Apr 2025.
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That's not a point, that's attacking a straw man to be dismissive. But I guess I shouldn't be too surprised about a defender of misrepresentation in this faction misrepresenting someone else's argument. One could say it only follows naturally.
And just because you don't care doesn't mean others shouldn't or that they'd be in the wrong to do so, it comes off as very arrogant and patronizing of you. Not to mention that you're the last person in this thread who should show any form of contempt given how confidently incorrect you were more often than not, so might want to dial down the antagonism in your replies before you really start pushing people's buttons. Agree to disagree with respect, instead of mocking someone's position in all caps, you have no right to do so.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 08, 2025 08:54 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 09:36, 08 Apr 2025.
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Yeah... Might wanna chill with the personal shots before I get tempted to hit a particular button, capiche?
Edit: Just a reminder —everyone here has *every right* to challenge ideas and opinions. But when the attack becomes personal and is directed at another member, that’s when it crosses the line of the Code of Conduct. And some of you have been around long enough to know that.
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Etharil
Shaper of Lore
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posted April 08, 2025 09:13 AM |
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Edited by Etharil at 09:16, 08 Apr 2025.
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MattII said:
I'm annoyed, because there seems to be no rhyme or reason to their changes. Of the other four factions that come from the previous games, we have:
Temple - changes names (from Haven), despite few changes in the lineup.
Hive - changes names (from Inferno), along with the entire lineup.
Dungeon - keeps name, with only a few changes in the lineup.
Necropolis - keeps name, with only a few changes in the lineup.
Now compare that to Sylvan, which keeps the name, despite changing the majority of the lineup.
I'm mostly just reading here, but I want to reinforce that it's called Hive because it's NOT Inferno and has no association with Inferno. It's a threat of its own that simply has been dealt with by the time of our (now second) visit to Jadame in MM8.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 08, 2025 10:00 AM |
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Etharil said:
I'm mostly just reading here, but I want to reinforce that it's called Hive because it's NOT Inferno and has no association with Inferno. It's a threat of its own that simply has been dealt with by the time of our (now second) visit to Jadame in MM8.
Accepted. I do have a question though. Why keep the name 'Sylvan', despite the almost total revamp of the lineup, when the Knight town got a name change, despite a much lesser change to their lineup?
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TrueMefista
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 08, 2025 10:41 AM |
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And why axolotl that sticks like a sour thumb in a forest faction? I know Water element needed covering, but that option is bizzare.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 08, 2025 10:50 AM |
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 08, 2025 01:08 PM |
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Speaking on individual creatures, Who the heck decided to make the Phoenix majority blue? The Phoenix is, mythologically, a bird made of fire, and most commonly available fuels (wood, coal, etc) don't burn blue as far as I'm aware.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 08, 2025 01:38 PM |
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MattII said:
Speaking on individual creatures, Who the heck decided to make the Phoenix majority blue? The Phoenix is, mythologically, a bird made of fire, and most commonly available fuels (wood, coal, etc) don't burn blue as far as I'm aware.
I actually really like the blue phoenix, especially because most of the blue seems to come from the foliage rather than the fire itself. It gives the creature a more magical, otherworldly vibe without losing the fiery essence. Not all fire has to be orange-red either; blue flames exist and can even suggest a purer or hotter magical fire. Plus, it visually sets the phoenix apart from other fiery creatures we've seen a hundred times before. I'm all for a bit of creative flair here.
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2025 02:38 PM |
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I also thought the blue Phoenix looks great. Hmm, where else have we seen something fiery turn blue? Conflux 
This is the last I’ll speak on the subject. It’s evident that the pool of folks who actually think Slyvan is a good fitting name for the faction is rather low. Most opinions I’ve seen say it’s just “fine”. And those same people would more than likely say it’s fine if it was called Conflux, Preserve, or actually got a new name like Grove. I’ll assume this is the result of folks who didn’t bother with heroes 7, and now they’ve gone 10+ years without a new heroes game so they’re more accepting. I remember how up in arms everyone on this forum was over a spider in necropolis. It’s ironic to me how one addition is detrimental to a faction’s theme while another faction can have its entire identity swapped with another, but it’s just fine. I’ll be cautious moving forward with Unfrozen’s additional factions. Who knows if Stronghold will be tower in OE, there’s no tower before heroes 1 right!? It could be new to the universe at this time! Behemoths for tower!!
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LordInsane
Known Hero
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posted April 08, 2025 02:47 PM |
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MattII said:
I'm annoyed, because there seems to be no rhyme or reason to their changes. Of the other four factions that come from the previous games, we have:
Temple - changes names (from Haven), despite few changes in the lineup.
Hive - changes names (from Inferno), along with the entire lineup.
Dungeon - keeps name, with only a few changes in the lineup.
Necropolis - keeps name, with only a few changes in the lineup.
Now compare that to Sylvan, which keeps the name, despite changing the majority of the lineup.
Temple: Haven is fundamentally athematic to the in-setting basis for the faction (note that while Sylvan breaks the linguistic theme, in terms of meaning it still connects to the faction); Temple ties to the lore basis for this iteration.
Hive: Highlights the extremely different identity of this iteration of a demonically-flavoured faction, that operates on a different fantasy archetype than Inferno.
Dungeon: Should have been changed. It creates expectations of evil and an Ashan-style society and culture that is absolutely not fitting for the Alvarians.
Necropolis: Fits Shadowspire quite well - if anything, it fits better than it does for Deyja, especially in this time period where the Church of the Moon would be more prominent.
Sylvan: Breaks in terms of grammar, but "of/pertaining to forests" is pretty obviously something that ties to a Murmurwoods faction.
On the subject of creatures, a blue phoenix may have worked better if the base creature did not have blue and it acquires it in its upgrades; it would create a "hotter fire" association. I find the aqualot annoying for its thematic conflict; it's an obviously preter- or supernaturally water-themed creature that in terms of name inspiration (axlotl, obviously), clade myths and folklore, and precedence from MM8 has fire associations, with no indication of that in the creature itself.
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