|
|
TNT_Addict
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Beautiful Liar
|
posted January 25, 2006 04:43 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Any crtique of Israel and you get labelled as being a nazi, facist, anti-semitic, or just flat out sued by the ADL.
You are damn right and I will see you in court!  
|
|
SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 25, 2006 05:00 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Well, according to international law, war is not a legitimate way of expanding one's borders.
Don't get me started on you namby pamby euros. What pressure have Europeans brought upon Israel to show their collective displeasure at Israel's belligerence besides saying bad things about jews while shopping for jewelry?
I don't see what internatinal law has to do with "namby pamby euros". Except from tha fact that it is to be respected, by all, even the US.
What pressure you ask? The Council of Europe and the European Union have put pressure on the Israeli goverment. Official statements of dissaproval of their strikes on civilians seemed nothing to them.
Or perhaps you recomend a "preventive strike" a "nice patch of napalm down their throats, from the boys in the army"
Let me ask you what has your goverment done? What great tasks have they accomplished to help the opressed people of Palestine?
And one more thing, have you ever even been to Europe?
Quote:
Quote:
Terrorism is wrong, but what is worse when it is done by an outlawed group or by an Army.
And some things never change. Grats SirDunco, your powers of political perception are still <deleted for extreme profanity, play nice>.
Ahh I knew you wouldn't fail me. Another great point for ol' Gootchie. And I thought you couldn't get any lower... I know why I missed you...
____________
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
posted January 25, 2006 08:37 PM |
|
|
I Agree
Very much in agreement The_Gootch. (except the part about categorizing a person as "euros")
____________
Roses Are Red And So Am I
|
|
bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
|
|
posted January 25, 2006 08:58 PM |
|
|
|
U think they will ever become friends?
|
|
Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 25, 2006 10:28 PM |
|
Edited by Shiva on 25 Jan 2006
|
A short history of why Zionism exists, and why Israel
defends itself. This follows only the last 200 years or so and does not include the numerous expulsions and other
assorted persecutions in Europe and elsewhere before
that.
Personally, I'm non-violent, yet I understand those
Jews who have had enough. The terrible situation in the
Middle East can be resolved, but only if Israel is
accepted as a fact.
_____________________________________________________
Antisemitism: Persecution of Jews along Racial Lines:
Subsequent attacks against Jews tended to be racially motivated. They were perpetrated primarily by the state. The Jewish people were viewed as a separate people or race.
1806: A French Jesuit Priest, Abbe Barruel, had written a treatise blaming the Masonic Order for the French Revolution. He later issued a letter alleging that Jews, not the Masons were the guilty party. This triggered a belief in an international Jewish conspiracy in Germany, Poland and some other European countries later in the 19th century.
1819: During the late 18th and early 19th centuries, many European Jews lobbied their governments for emancipation. They sought citizenship as well as the same rights and treatment as were enjoyed by non-Jews. This appears to have provoked sporadic anti-semites to engage in anti-Jewish violence. The rioters cried "Hep! Hep!." The origin(s) of this cry are not clear. Jews and their property were attacked first in Wuerzburg, Germany during 1819-AUG. The rioting spread across Germany and eventually reached as far as Denmark and Poland. 17
1840: A rumor spread in Syria that some Jews were responsible for the ritual killing of a Roman Catholic monk and his servant. As a result of horrendous treatment, some local Jews confessed to a crime that they did not commit. This "Damascus Affair" spurred early Zionist writers like Hess to promote the Zionist cause. 17 More details.
1846 - 1878: Pope Pius IX restored all of the previous restrictions against the Jews within the Vatican state. All Jews under Papal control were confined to Rome's ghetto - the last one in Europe until the Nazi era restored the church's practice. On 2000-SEP-3, Pope John Paul II beatified Pius IX; this is the last step before sainthood. He explained: "Beatifying a son of the church does not celebrate particular historic choices that he has made, but rather points him out for imitation and for veneration for his virtue."
1858: Edgardo Mortara was kidnapped, at the age of six, from his Jewish family by Roman Catholic officials after they found out that a maid had secretly baptized him. He was not returned to his family but was raised a Catholic. He eventually became a priest.
1873: The term "antisemitism" is first used in a pamphlet by Wilhelm Marr called "Jewry's Victory over Teutonism."
1881: Alexander II of Russia was assassinated by radicals. The Jews were blamed. About 200 individual pogroms against the Jews followed. ("Pogrom" is a Russian word meaning "devastation" or "riot." In Russia, a pogrom was typically a mob riot against Jewish individuals, shops, homes or businesses. They were often supported and even organized by the government.) Thousands of Jews became homeless and impoverished. The few who were charged with offenses generally received very light sentences. 1
1893: "...anti-Semitic parties won sixteen seats in the German Reichstag." 2
1894: Captain Alfred Dreyfus, an officer on the French general staff, was convicted of treason. The evidence against him consisted of a piece of paper from his wastebasket with another person's handwriting, and papers forged by antisemitic officers. He received a life sentence on Devil's Island, off the coast of South America. The French government was aware that a Major Esterhazy was actually guilty. 3 The church, government and army united to suppress the truth. Writer Emile Zola and politician Jean Jaurès fought for justice and human rights. After 10 years, the French government fell and Drefus was declared totally innocent. The Dreyfus Affair was world-wide news for years. It motivated Journalist Theodor Herzl to write a book in 1896: "The Jewish State: A Modern Solution to the Jewish Question." The book led to the founding of the Zionist movement which fought for a Jewish Homeland. A half century later, the state of Israel was born.
1903: At Easter, government agents organized an anti-Jewish pogrom in Kishinev, Moldova, Russia. The local newspaper published a series of inflammatory articles. A Christian child was discovered murdered and a young Christian woman at the Jewish Hospital committed suicide. Jews were blamed for the deaths. Violence ensured. The 5,000 soldiers in the town did nothing. When the smoke cleared, 49 Jews had been killed, 500 were injured; 700 homes looted and destroyed, 600 businesses and shops looted, 2000 families left homeless. Later, it was discovered that the child had been murdered by its relatives and the suicide was unrelated to the Jews. 4
1905: The Okhrana, the Russian secret police in the reign of Czar Nicholas II, converted an earlier antisemitic novel into a document called the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion." 16 It was published privately in 1897. A Russian Orthodox priest, Sergius Nilus, published them publicly in 1905. It was promoted as the record of "secret rabbinical conferences whose aim was to subjugate and exterminate the Christians." 5 The Protocols were used by the Okhrana in a propaganda campaign that was associated with massacres of the Jews. These were the Czarist Pogroms of 1905.
1915: 600,000 Jews were forcibly moved from the western borders of Russia towards the interior. About 100,000 died of exposure or starvation.
1917: "In the civil war following the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917, the reactionary White Armies made extensive use of the Protocols to incite widespread slaughters of Jews." 5 Two hundred thousand Jews were murdered in the Ukraine alone.
1920: The Protocols reach England and the United States. They are exposed as a forgery, but are widely circulated. Henry Ford sponsored a study of international activities of Jews. This led to a series of antisemitic articles in the Dearborn Independent, which were published in a book, "The International Jew." The Protocols were sold on Wal-Mart's online bookstore until they were removed on 2004-SEP-21.
1920: The defeat of Germany in World War I and the continuing economic difficulties were blamed in that country on the "Jewish influence." One antisemitic poster has been preserved from that era. 6 It shows a German, presumably Christian woman, a male Jew with distorted facial features, a coffin and the word "Deutschland" (Germany)
1920's, 1930's: Hitler had published in Mein Kampf in 1925, writing: "Today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." The Protocols are used by the Nazis to whip up public hatred of the Jews in the 1930's. Widespread pogroms occur in Greece, Hungary, Mexico, Poland, Rumania, and the USSR. Radio programs by many conservative American clergy, both Roman Catholic and Protestant, frequently attacked Jews. Reverend Fr. Charles E Coughlin was one of the best known. "In the 1930's, radio audiences heard him rail against the threat of Jews to America's economy and defend Hitler's treatment of Jews as justified in the fight against communism." (12) Other conservative Christian leaders, such as Frank Norris and John Straton supported the Jews. 7
Discrimination against Jews in North America is widespread. Many universities set limits on the maximum number of Jewish students that they would accept. Harvard accepted all students on the basis of merit until after World War I when the percentage of Jewish students approached 15%. At that time they installed an informal quota system. In 1941, Princeton had fewer than 2% Jews in their student body. Jews were routinely barred from country clubs, prestigious neighborhoods, etc. 8
1933: Hitler took power in Germany. On APR-1, Julius Streicher organized a one-day boycott of all Jewish owned busienss in the country. This was the start of continuous oppression by the Nazis culminating in the Holocaust (a.k.a. Shoah). Jews "were barred from civil service, legal professions and universities, were not allowed to teach in schools and could not be editors of newspapers." 2 Two years later, Jews were no longer considered citizens.
bullet 1934: Various laws were enacted in Germany to force Jews out of schools and professions.
1935: The Nazis passed the Nuremberg Laws restricting citizenship to those of "German or related blood." Jews became stateless.
1936: Cardinal Hloud of Poland urged Catholics to boycott Jewish businesses.
1938: On NOV-9, the Nazi government in Germany sent storm troopers, the SS and the Hitler Youth on a pogrom that killed 91 Jews, injured hundreds, burned 177 synagogues and looted 7,500 Jewish stores. Broken glass could be seen everywhere; the glass gave this event its name of Kristallnacht, the Night of Broken Glass. 9
1938: Hitler brought back century-old church law, ordering all Jews to wear a yellow Star of David as identification. A few hundred thousand Jews are allowed to leave Germany after they give all of their assets to the government.
1939: The Holocaust, the Shoah -- the systematic extermination of Jews in Germany -- begins. The process only ended in 1945 with the conclusion of World War II. Approximately 6 million Jews (1.5 million of them children), 400 thousand Roma (Gypsies) and others were slaughtered. Some were killed by death squads; others were slowly killed in trucks with carbon monoxide; others were gassed in large groups in Auschwitz, Dacau, Sobibor, Treblinka and other extermination camps. Officially, the holocaust was described by the Nazis as subjecting Jews "to special treatment" or as a "solution of the Jewish question." Gold taken from the teeth of the victims was recycled; hair was used in the manufacture of mattresses. In the Buchenwald extermination camp, lampshades were made out of human skin; however, this appears to be an isolated incident. A rumor spread that Jewish corpses were routinely converted into soap. However, the story appears to be false. 10
1940: The Vichy government of France collaborated with Nazi Germany by freezing about 80,000 Jewish bank accounts. During the next four years, they deported about 76,000 Jews to Nazi death camps; only about 2,500 survived. It was only in 1995 that a French president, Jacques Chirac, "was able to admit that the state bore a heavy share of responsibility in the mass round-ups and deportations of Jews, as well as in the property and asset seizures that were carried out with the active help of the Vichy regime." 11
1941: The Holocaust Museum in Washington DC estimates that 13,000 Jews died on 1941-JUN-19 during a pogrom in Bucharest, Romania. It was ordered by the pro-Nazi Romanian regime of Marshal Ion Antonescu. The current government has admitted that this atrocity happened, but most Romanians continue to deny that the Jews were killed on orders from their own government. 12
1941: Polish citizens in Jedwabne in northeastern Poland killed hundreds of Jews, by either beating them to death or burning them alive in a barn. According to the Associated Press: "The role played by Polish citizens was suppressed for nearly six decades until publication of a book by a Polish emigre historian, Jan Tomasz Gross. After release of the book in 2000, the Polish government launched an investigation. 'The role of the Poles was decisive in conducting the criminal act,' [prosecutor Radoslaw] Ignatiew, said. The book, 'Neighbours,' sparked national soul-searching among Poles, many of whom could not believe that anybody but the Nazis would have committed the atrocity." 13
1942: The Nazi leaders of Germany, at the Wannsee conference, decided on"the final solution of the Jewish question" which was the attempt to exterminate every Jew in Europe. From JUL-28 to 31, almost 18,000 Russian inhabitants of the Minsk ghetto in what is now Belarus were exterminated. This was in addition to 5,000 to 15,000 who had been massacred in earlier pogroms in that city. This was just one of many such pogroms during World War II. 14
1945: The Shoah (Holocaust) ended as the Allied Forces over-ran the Nazi death camps.
1946: Even though World War II ended the year before, antisemitic pogroms continued, particularly in Poland, with the deaths of many Jews.
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
posted January 26, 2006 03:11 PM |
|
|
What Does It Mean?
Hamas has won the election.
____________
Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
|
|
TNT_Addict
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Beautiful Liar
|
|
posted January 26, 2006 08:59 PM |
|
|
Just an update for the ones that are interested:
Netanyahu is going down! It is already pretty obvious to all that Ehud Olmert, Sharons
right hand man and reigning prime minister will win the upcoming elections due in 3 months.
The guy is known for his mood swings and if Hamas will be naughty it would get
pretty messy in the middle east...
|
|
Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
|
|
posted January 27, 2006 12:33 AM |
|
|
Quote:
The Protocols are used by the Nazis to whip up public hatred of the Jews in the 1930's. Widespread pogroms occur in Greece, Hungary, Mexico, Poland, Rumania, and the USSR.
Care to cite the source?
In 1917 Russia became communist. That equalized people in a way that everyone got f**ed equally independent of their gender, race or religion. Any form of religious practise was forbidden and strictly prosecuted. Even though there was some anti-semitism before the revolution, the revolution has changed it. Your nationality made no difference in the way you were treated. As a matter of fact, many Russians did their best to try to keep their Jewish neighbors away from the concentration camps during the WW2. Many Jews considered themselves Soviets just like Russians, Georgians, Armenians and many other nationalities who lives in the USSR. They didn't care much about their nationality and treated everyone equally (and I highly respect those who did so). However, there were also many Jews who lived in USSR and who separated the people into 2 kinds: "Jews" and "Goys" (i.e. non-Jews). They blamed all their their problems on anti-semitism and their only topic of discussion was anti-semitism and talking about how Jews are smarter and better than everyone else. Now some of them have made it to the Western countries where they are more than happy to s**t on the coutry and the people who saved them during the WW2. Do you want to listen to them talk about how bad the Russians are?
|
|
privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
|
|
posted January 27, 2006 01:24 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I don't see any other country which returns lands they won in a bloody war.
Virtually every country in the world has at some point. Provided with a good enough reason to do so most countries will give up territory important to them. Take France in relation to Algeria or Britain in relation to India for examples.
A point or two on Irsaeli military might. Yes Israel have an immensely strong military but it does have a number of weaknesses that could bring it grief. The Army relies heavily on the regular formations buying time for the reservists to come up - a process that can take up to 4 days or so. Once fully mobilized the Israeli armed forces are such a strain on the economy that it's extremely difficult to maintain that level for long periods. They are also still reliant on foreign imports for their weaponry and therefore vulnerable to the political will of the likes of America or Britain. The air force which primarily operates in tactical support roles and has struggled in the past if it's not able to strike first, disabling the enemy's SAM sites and/or air force.
All this plays a significant role in Israel's politics and the course of any wars. In 1973 for example the Israeli government declined to order a full mobilisation because if it was an Arab bluff the economy would be hurt. When the attack became more likely they further declined to launch a pre-emptive strike as whenever they opened the conflict (for example 1956 and 1967) this damaged them politically to the extent that even the US was reluctant to support Israel.
Any coallition of it's neighbours that could sucessfully exploit those weaknesses could bring down Israel, after all an alliance of just Egypt and Syria very nearly managed it in 1973.
Outside of those constraints though the Israeli army is still a superbly trained, well equipped and adaptable force that has proven time and again able to defend itself and take the war to the enemy. The only other factor against it at present comes from the fact that unlike in the past most of it's ranks have little or no experience of conventional warfare.
____________
We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
posted January 27, 2006 03:42 AM |
|
|
Enough Psychobabble!
Tell me PrivateHudson, despite all this political nonsense, what you think of Iran's president declaring the holocaust a myth and suggesting Israel be wiped off the map. Tell me how it sits with you. Then please tell me what you think your future Kings and parliamentary may or may not do as a result of the growing threat.
____________
Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
|
|
SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 27, 2006 09:57 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
The Protocols are used by the Nazis to whip up public hatred of the Jews in the 1930's. Widespread pogroms occur in Greece, Hungary, Mexico, Poland, Rumania, and the USSR.
Care to cite the source?
In 1917 Russia became communist. That equalized people in a way that everyone got f**ed equally independent of their gender, race or religion. Any form of religious practise was forbidden and strictly prosecuted. Even though there was some anti-semitism before the revolution, the revolution has changed it. Your nationality made no difference in the way you were treated. As a matter of fact, many Russians did their best to try to keep their Jewish neighbors away from the concentration camps during the WW2. Many Jews considered themselves Soviets just like Russians, Georgians, Armenians and many other nationalities who lives in the USSR. They didn't care much about their nationality and treated everyone equally (and I highly respect those who did so). However, there were also many Jews who lived in USSR and who separated the people into 2 kinds: "Jews" and "Goys" (i.e. non-Jews). They blamed all their their problems on anti-semitism and their only topic of discussion was anti-semitism and talking about how Jews are smarter and better than everyone else. Now some of them have made it to the Western countries where they are more than happy to s**t on the coutry and the people who saved them during the WW2. Do you want to listen to them talk about how bad the Russians are?
I'm getting a bit OT here but after WWII jews were procecuted through out the Soviet block. In the sham trials of the late 40's and 50's being Jewish, having Jewish backround or having Jewish friends could jsut add more weigh to any accusation.
You were immediately accused of supporting Sionist groups, being a part of a Sionist group or just being in touch with them.
This alone was enough to get you about 5 years of prison.
Sure before WWII things were calm but those things turned in the bloody times of the forties and fifties.
And you have to remember one thing that Josip Visarianovic Stalin was a paranoid psycho, who was afraid of any threat weather it was from his doctors or from the "Sionists"
____________
|
|
Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 27, 2006 01:28 PM |
|
|
The source is a page I found in searching the web.
To be fair, Stalin killed everyone indiscriminately.
____________
|
|
Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
|
|
posted January 27, 2006 03:35 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I'm getting a bit OT here but after WWII jews were procecuted through out the Soviet block. In the sham trials of the late 40's and 50's being Jewish, having Jewish backround or having Jewish friends could jsut add more weigh to any accusation.
You were immediately accused of supporting Sionist groups, being a part of a Sionist group or just being in touch with them.
This alone was enough to get you about 5 years of prison.
Sure before WWII things were calm but those things turned in the bloody times of the forties and fifties.
And you have to remember one thing that Josip Visarianovic Stalin was a paranoid psycho, who was afraid of any threat weather it was from his doctors or from the "Sionists"
In the early years of communism my grandmother's family was sent to Siberia for having more than one cow. The NKVD (this is how KGB was called at the time) had a quota. They went through their vilage in Siberia and picked every 5-th house. 2 of my great grandmother's brothers were shot because they happened to live in the 5-th house. They were 100% Russian. And they were labelled a part of some sort of a group trying to overthrow a Soviet government. The system was more complicated in the big towns, but the idea was the same. NKVD had a quota. They arrested all kinds of people and thir job was to assign a label to them such as "Japanese spy ring", or "Anarchist group", or whatever else so that they could shoot them or send them to the labour camp. Being Jewish made this creative task easier for them because they could just say "Zionist conspiracy", or "Jewish Doctor's conspiracy" (i.e. a group trying to poison comrade Stalin himself) but this did not mean they got prosecuted for being Jewish. EVERYONE got prosecuted. More than 40 million people were shot or sent to the labour camps for political reasons.
As a matter of fact, some of the early communist leaders were Jewish. Stalin's government had some of them. Do you think they would be there if the things you are talking about were true?
|
|
Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
|
|
posted January 27, 2006 03:59 PM |
|
Edited by Russ on 27 Jan 2006
|
Quote:
The source is a page I found in searching the web.
To be fair, Stalin killed everyone indiscriminately.
exactly
|
|
SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 27, 2006 04:14 PM |
|
|
Look I'm not saying that Stalin's killing were based purely on racial prejudice but being Jewish wouldn't help you.
Ofcourse those raid-killings by the NKVD were based purely randomly. You didn't need to do anything to get shot. But the russian countryside never profited from any regime, it was poor, is poor and most likely will be poor. Stalin didn't care about the "peasants" as to speak. But in the major Trials there were thousands of accusations if Zionism etc.
I don't know that whole lot about the USSR,since it was extreme to the max but here in Czechoslovakia there were cases of trials of the Jewish population, especialy of those who maintaned some of their wealth and property. These people were accused of Zionist conspiracy and or Ziosnost espionage, sentenced mostly to hard labour and their property was taken over by state.
I'm not saying that the Soviet system was one based on racial prejudice, but being Jewish wouldn't help you, on the other hadn it would be just one more reason to be accused of "Ploting against the Nation"
____________
|
|
Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
|
|
posted January 27, 2006 05:06 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I don't know that whole lot about the USSR,since it was extreme to the max but here in Czechoslovakia there were cases of trials of the Jewish population, especialy of those who maintaned some of their wealth and property. These people were accused of Zionist conspiracy and or Ziosnost espionage, sentenced mostly to hard labour and their property was taken over by state.
I'm not saying that the Soviet system was one based on racial prejudice, but being Jewish wouldn't help you, on the other hadn it would be just one more reason to be accused of "Ploting against the Nation"
I don't know much about Czechoslovakia, but I bolded what I think were the main reasons for those trials  Maybe Czechoslovakia had more racism than USSR, so people supported those trials and the government interpreted it as a green light.
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
posted January 27, 2006 10:12 PM |
|
Edited by Consis on 27 Jan 2006
|
I Think . . .
Here is what I think about racism. It's only me. Only I think this because I have spoken with no one else. No one I know likes to talk about such things but I still think it anyway.
Racism is in all countries. But I don't think racism is the persecution of a race. If we are all human then how can a man persecute another man that is of different skin color eh? This is not racism to me. It is a characteristic of human behavior that somehow rationalizes that one man is less equal than another man. Women are no different; they are human too. They have equal percentages of racism. I think racism is nothing but a word and its definition is used incorrectly. By definition, the word racism means to persecute another human of a different racial origin. And if you ask most people then they will tell you, "Oh yes persecuting a dark-skinned person for being dark-skinned is definitely racist." But I believe this is only a result of early mass-media marketing that came from American Hollywood. From our country came the first movies about racism and it was naturally about "Black and White".
The more and more I read and study other cultures, the more I feel that racism is a mindset of certain people. These people decide to look down on another person for any wide variety of reasons. Here in the U.S.A. I see and hear so much talk about physical appearances such as skin color or sexual origin. I've learned that in the U.K. (primarily Britain) they don't have nearly as much banter about the color of a person's skin, but rather the intonation of a person's use of the English language. I've heard it said, "Your accent or dialect may betray your impoverished origins." In other parts of the world I've learned the persecution comes from what you declare loyalty to in religious philosophy such as the Israelis and Palestinians. Physically they look very much alike; much more so than a Boston-born Dutch Englishman to a New Orleans, Louisiana-born African American. And yet somehow if you have an Israeli and Palestinian standing next to each other, despite their physical likenesses, they will likely begin to look upon each other with persecution. This physical likeness would actually be taken into account if two American Africans stood next to each other. I've also read in books that history tells clothing was once a form of class delineation.
Through all this I have learned that racism is just another word, most inappropriately given to humans persecuting other human beings for any number of reasons. I do not believe in racism. I believe in a spectrum of Human characteristics; many good and many equally bad. Life is about choices. A person can choose to persecute or not to. History seems to have shown this is a very real characteristic of human beings. Those who choose to persecute do it, I think, because they are led by some unknown inner fear. Those who choose not to persecute have more time to work on gaining inner peace and understanding.
____________
Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
|
|
Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
|
|
posted January 27, 2006 11:51 PM |
|
|
Nice post, very thoughtful and very true. I'd like to add my bit to this part though:Quote:
Those who choose to persecute do it, I think, because they are led by some unknown inner fear. Those who choose not to persecute have more time to work on gaining inner peace and understanding.
I think there is another psychological factor that makes people dislike someone different. Young kids (and not only kids!) are very open to "suggestion". This means that they belive everything they are told, whether good or bad. If their peers, parents and the media tells them that *Insert an Enemy Here* (IEH for short ) are bad and that they should hate them, they WILL belive that the abovementioned IEHs are bad and they WILL hate them. Once those kids grow up, hating the IEHs becomes a part of their personality and at that point of time is becomes very very hard to get it out of their heads.
Actually, as a matter of fact this is how ALL of our minds function. Unlike young kids we are able to question what we are told, BUT if we are told something a 1000 times, our subconscious mind WILL take a note of that even if we understand that what we heard is 100% nonsense. And there are many times when our subconscious mind guides us. I.e. when someone says that John Smith is a bad guy, you'll say "oh..." then you'll successfully forget about it and move on (but your subconscious mind WILL take a note of it and remember it). When you finally get to see the abovementioned John Smith you'll have a "bad feeling" about the guy even though you don't know him and you've never seen him before.
|
|
The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
|
|
posted January 31, 2006 03:18 PM |
|
|
Quote:
The Council of Europe and the European Union have put pressure on the Israeli goverment. Official statements of dissaproval of their strikes on civilians seemed nothing to them.
Without the will to back up these um, strongly worded disapprovals european governements essentially give license to the Israelis to continue doing what they're doing. Israel is able to tell Europe to stick these statements where the sun don't shine.
Actually, Europeans pride themselves on diplomacy. That's fine. That's admirable. Where are the economic sanctions against Israel?
Quote:
Or perhaps you recomend a "preventive strike" a "nice patch of napalm down their throats, from the boys in the army"
Nah...preventative strikes are the business of the US and Israel. Euros don't have the stomache for armed conflict.
Quote:
Let me ask you what has your goverment done? What great tasks have they accomplished to help the opressed people of Palestine?
Um, my governement is backing the other horse with billions of dollars a year in aid. Really, it's hard to sympathize with Palestinians when they strap young men with bombs to blow up school buses filled with children. Don't preach to me about how 'oppressed' the Palestinians are.
Let me ask you this though. Why is it that certain arab governments will give thousands of dollars to the family members of suicide bombers? Why do they promote it? Why do they give it their tacit approval?
And why on god's green earth aren't these same governments giving the same amount of money to entrepreneurs in Palestinian territories? Why aren't they giving say, small business loans?
Quote:
And one more thing, have you ever even been to Europe?
You've caught me. I've never been to Europe. I've never been to the land of bad teeth, bad cuisine, easy women, fast cars, and gypsies. Would I soften my stance if I visited and become more enlightened by dealing with barely comprehensible people chiding me on how much my government sucks?
Tell me, what did you learn in your time in the US? You came as a godless, commie, heathen socialist and you left as one.
So I read through that post Shiva. I'm sure somewhere in there is a gem. I'm sure that somewhere in there is a very strong justification for Israeli gunships to fire rockets into civilians.
I can't find it yet. Help me out.
|
|
Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 01, 2006 06:56 PM |
|
|
Quote:
So I read through that post Shiva. I'm sure somewhere in there is a gem. I'm sure that somewhere in there is a very strong justification for Israeli gunships to fire rockets into civilians.
I can't find it yet. Help me out.
You're right. The Israelis should adopt a more humane way
of defending them selves, like strapping bombs to their
bodies. But seriously, I wont defend violence on any side,
nor will I argue further with a faux persona who likes to
criticize everything.
____________
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
