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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted January 25, 2005 06:42 PM |
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Quote:
and dont gimme no "if you dont like it, try to improve it" speach now. I have tried that by making a thread of my own that could and would have worked out great if it wasnt for first the girl in question went AWOL. and then when she got back there were no interest.
i just love quoting myself, that way you can always hope that the point comes across the second time...
IMO your rambling is just boring pan, because its a happy coocoo vision. Which is good in its naive theory, but never happens practically.
"you are that someone..." bla bla bla, well off course. If someone dont like it, they should try to improve things. And off course this always means looking at yourself first and never to others.
IMO thats a very easy way out of "handling" this problem. On the practical side though, it isnt handling as nothing gets better.
Because with a reasoning that says "look at yourself" first thats all you can do. And thats basically in this situation everything you can do as no matter how hard one tries... you can always ask for the person to become better.
Which is.. IMO just a boring way of saying that no one is entitled to expect better posts/ideas/threads etc from others because you can do it yourself.
Why its boring is because its stupid.
As for a metaphor, you can these awesome seeds for a great looking flower. But as long as you only got seeds.. and no one can offer water/sun/nutrials and such for the possible flower. All you have will be some seeds.
What you need is a mix out of these things, and to get this mix you should be entitled to expect more from other posters. Not thinking about something that everyone agrees with it is a problem but if you give the thoughts a voice you get slammed because some stupid "look at your own contributions first" reasoning.
As for the metaphor again, what pan just provided was seeds for an idea. What we need now is someone that could give the seeds water so the idea can turn into threads and then we need the sun (posters) to keep it alive.
This is a good way, having to come up with the idea, turn it into a thread and keeping it alive by yourself just so no one can say "look at yourself first!!" is totally wrong as this usually gives less perspective to things.
Now pan, i also have full understanding that the moderators cant say nor agree with what im saying aswell seen from a diplomatic view as it would be saying "tavern sucks".. which isnt a good thing if you are a tavern mod even if everyone else thinks this way.
What i dont like though is you try to bring up a reasoning that ends in nothing to solve the problem.
Look at the old days.. then this place was sparkling with interesting discussions and members.
Heck even look at the "boring" days a year ago.. even they were alot better than this.
Ive always had HC as a 2nd-3rd site to visit, now its 7-8th somewhere.. and its seldom i got that amount of time.
But its boring, id happily help out with a game.. or something else that could fire the place up.
But i dont have any new good ideas by myself right now, which is why we need others to spark out ideas aswell.
So instead of being boring and looking to ourselves, why not looking at others to see what they can contribute with and how we can help out with that?
Sounds alot better to me.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted January 25, 2005 08:10 PM |
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Edited By: Consis on 25 Jan 2005
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LoL
Quote:
your rambling is just boring pan, because its a happy coocoo vision
Nobody says "I Love You" better than Sir_Stiven......in his own special way of course  LoL
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted January 25, 2005 09:31 PM |
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LOL - but here's the thing... If everyone shared your view, then we would have a community of 3488 members sitting around griping at each other to do something - and not one person to do anything.
I can make a list for if you like as to all of the things I have done in attempts to improve this forum , but what does that accomplish? Not so much...
I am not saying that everyone who wants to save the tavern should start a thread and then be the only ones to keep the thread alive - that would be blogging
I am not saying that for an individual to make an effort requires that they have an idea and they implement that idea. I am saying that each member has to be a part of that solution.
This can be many things - if someone tries to start a thread with a new idea - support it! Participate and keep that thread alive. Reading it and thinking 'hmm, that was interesting' then browsing off to the next page does not help spark interest in others, they see a thread with 0 replies and 30 views and think 'meh. next.'
If someone has made a great post/thread whatever and you enjoy it but feel you have nothing to contribute - send them an IM saying, hey nice job i really liked that. Or point it out here for QP consideration, let members who are trying feel like it's being noticed and appreciated, so that they can continue.
If you feel a thread is good but could be better - tell its creator how in a positive way. Don't be ripping apart everything that you think is wrong and leaving a person to think that nothing is right.
When i say that each member should contribute I do not mean that everyone has to start a new thread, i mean that they should find whatever way they can to be a part.
People go on and on about what's wrong - Stefan you used the word boring what? 6 times? more? Why not say what's right once in a while?
Maybe members would input more if they had a spark, an idea from other people as to what would be well recieved.
I am absolutely willing to do whatever I can to fix the situation - but how about you help out some rather than tell me I have a naive view of things.
If its naive to think that we can make HC better if we want to - then I'm as naive as they come.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted January 26, 2005 01:24 AM |
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it isnt naive to think we can improve it, because that was what my post was all about. Its naive to think a forum being boring (7th time then ) if everyone is just doing their own.
You might have missed my metaphor (which is a shame btw since i thought it was great ) which was all about we need to rely on each other aswell to get this place going.
Meaning = team effort
not
looking at your own effort.
Big difference.
The first make people feel they are a part of something and therefor have something incommon.
The second is wrong.
And for that matter i could write you a full list in attempts to make this place better aswell, and believe it or not i do think it would problably end up being 3-4 times longer than your list
That was just a point btw, i wouldnt wanna compete in this as i dont think pointing fingers at each other what they do bad is the way to go. I believe that making people realise that there is a problem that we need to fix and we need to do it together is the way to go.
But obviously most of us arent interested in doing so or they simply think im wrong and this place is hilarious at the moment... or they are just to long gone so they wont even bother to post about it.
Either way if nothing gets done i dont think this part of the forum will last until Heroes5.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted January 26, 2005 03:01 AM |
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Quote:
And for that matter i could write you a full list in attempts to make this place better aswell, and believe it or not i do think it would problably end up being 3-4 times longer than your list
If you bothered writing that list of yours, even if it was three rows long, you would have been much more productive than writing three long posts of whining. Honestly.
Eagerly awaiting for the valuable list of proposals for tavern salvation
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 26, 2005 03:25 AM |
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Edited By: Shiva on 26 Jan 2005
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Quote:
Look at the old days.. then this place was sparkling with interesting discussions and members.
Heck even look at the "boring" days a year ago.. even they were alot better than this.
But i dont have any new good ideas by myself right now, which is why we need others to spark out ideas aswell.
You know Stiven, there is so much I could say about what
you are bringing up, but I chose these because I believe
they are at the seed of the problem.
First, let me say I don't have a problem with this board,
you do. You seem to be living in the past, wanting things to
be the way they were in the "Golden Age" or something. My
friend, the past is gone. What is left is this, what
ever is here now. That means you complaining and me
complaining about you complaining. My complaint is
there is no reason for you to say anything at all because
you have nothing to add but negativity. You did not add
one single constructive statement in all your rambling,
and in the end admitted you have no solution at all.
So let me try to spark you with some new ideas:
1) If you can't be constructive, don't say anything.
2) If you feel you have to say something anyway, try
to acknowledge the intelligence of those you are
talking to.
3) If you feel you must use the word stoopid, or for
that matter, noob, in a derogatory manner, try to
ascertain if you are not being stoopid or noobish
by speaking like that.
4) Remember, when you point a finger at others, the other
three fingers are pointing back at yourself
5) Stop living in the past, it is empty except for
memories. Here is where the action is.
6) And lastly, Pandora is absolutely right, the way to
a better board, or world for that matter, starts with
me...I mean you...you are responsible for the
quality of what goes on here, no one else.
Edit: Ok,its the next day and I've reread what I
wrote. The heat has passed and but rather than
change what I wrote, I decided to add this.
Stiven, I was hard on you, and I saw more good
things in what you wrote the second time through.
My reaction the first time was to you saying this
place is boring. So what if it is? It still helps
not all to criticize and add nothing. If I thought
this board was bring, I would stay away rather than
make a statement like that.
I do see you have a desire to improve what is going
on here, but, my friend, your style is so abrasive,
it comes off differently. Others, who have known you
longer, perhaps see through your crusty exterior,
but the first impression I got was, wow, here is a
boring guy talking about being boring ..ok, excuse
me, I'm just saying what I what I saw..it is a
feedback thread, isn't it?
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted January 26, 2005 05:44 PM |
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lol...
now even the n00bs is trying to correct me complaining im jumping the gun in calling this place boring and im not being constructive.
And then realises i might had a point or two after all..
meaning two things..
first you jumped the gun.
second you complained about me complaining.
Now lets see...
"when you point one finger..."
now n00b, listen.
I dont live on the old "golden days". My post havent said that.
What i do want is trying to get this place to improve.
And to do so.. i did offer my suggestions on how to do it. On that we should expect and rely more on each other, that we should use each other to build good threads/discussions up.
Thats my suggestion on doing on.
And about being constructive, i dont see anything constructive at all in behaving like a 5 year old because i called this place boring and then try start correcting me without any knowledge at the time of my message in a proposed hope to get a QP.
because that was what your post was all about, a typical boring "i say what the mods want me to say and i defend em" kind of post.
Absolutely none contributive to the discussion as how to improve the place.
Thing is, this is exactly my problem.
members like you, who is looking at their own good in trying to suck up QP's instead of finding ways to contribute to this board.
I have offered my ways on how to improve it, then if you dont like what ive written..or think its boring/stupid/whatever couldnt bother me less.
Because i dont believe members like you who got your head up in mods butt can offer any perspectives on your own.
What i want is hopefully members who wants to try and get this place good again and think i might be on to something. Then we can work from there, from our individual perspectives.
Meaning: dont take up useless serverspace and threadspace being judgemental on conclusions you have jumped to.
Oh and btw, as things happened i did think about this some last nite and i have an idea i concider good and wanna know if someone is interested in implementing it.
I will need preferbly 8-10 members though who should be quite different in age.
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 26, 2005 06:21 PM |
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I suppose it went over your head, me complaining about you
complaining. Its called satire. About this thing of having
someones head up the mods whatever...agreeing with what is
right whoever said it is where I'm at. If you ever manage
to say anything truthfull, I will agree with you.
Like I will agree that if you start a worthwhile thread, it
would help. But since I've been here, I have never seen
that. All I see is you complaining, and trying to insult
people by calling them noobs.
So, Mr Sir_Stiven, let me state that I have much more life
experience then you, and much more respect for others than
you display. You seem to hold yourself in a rather high
undeserved esteem, and consequently, look down on everyone.
You may play the game of heroes well, but as a a person,
you are a distinct n00b since you display so little grace
and understanding of everyone.
Now, we can continue to insult eachother, which is your
style, or we can achieve a mutual respect, which is my
style. Are you ready? Can you change?
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted January 26, 2005 10:10 PM |
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Penalty applied to Sir_Stiven for his comments , particularly Quote:
Because i dont believe members like you who got your head up in mods butt can offer any perspectives on your own.
From the CoC: Quote:
Insults are not allowed at Heroes Community. Insult is any remark that undermines the persona of another member.
Sir_Stiven, you have been spoken to often anough about your treatment of other members that a warning would not have been enough.
I very much appreciate that you want to try to make a positive change here, and i would like to be a part of making that happen - but it cannot be done by pushing away new members by your disrespectful treatment of them.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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TheRealDeal
Promising
Supreme Hero
Foobum* of Justice!
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posted January 26, 2005 10:14 PM |
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We all know me and stiven has problems.. but..
I think that penalty was uncalled for, he tries to help Tavern and he gets penalized? So what if he calls someone names ffs, aren't we adults?(or at the last close..) We'll probably survive.
I SAY NO TO THIS PENALTY!
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*We all know the that Foobum is the class of all that is Cake.
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted January 26, 2005 10:21 PM |
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There have been multiple instances regarding Sir_Stiven's treatment of new members.
The penalty was given as a result of his failure to respect the warnings he has been given in the past, and it applies directly to the CoC.
I have quoted the pertainant line for you already.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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TheRealDeal
Promising
Supreme Hero
Foobum* of Justice!
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posted January 26, 2005 10:23 PM |
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Even if you had quoted something useful it probably wouldn't make me change my mind? I said my opinion, and that you'll never take anyway from me, no matter what you quote.
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*We all know the that Foobum is the class of all that is Cake.
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted January 26, 2005 10:31 PM |
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And I appreciate your opinion realDeal - I am simply explaining my logic in giving the penalty in accordance with the COC.
Don't think that because I do not appreciate his unwelcoming tone with new members, that i do not appreciate the efforts he makes at improving the community.
I know that at the heart of it Sir_Stiven belives that HC can be more than it is, and he wants to see that happen. I also know that he often speaks far more harshly than he probably means it.
however this has happened over and over again. It cannot be allowed to continue. What type of feedback thread do we have when members that have not been here long enough to suit Sir_Stiven's taste are not welcome to express their ideas? Should we continue to show people that they may input feedback - but only at the risk of being ridiculed here?
I want for every member with an opinion to share, to feel free to share it here. I want for members to trust that even if their opinions aren't shared by the masses - they will be respected! That is the message that i think needs to be delivered here.
In Sir_Stiven's original post that I copied here to start with, one of the things that he suggests is that we need new members - so in that case why should he be free to drive them away?
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted January 26, 2005 10:39 PM |
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I Agree With Pandora
Sir_Stiven is known for walking a very thin line when it comes to insulting a member. While his comments may not get a penalty in one forum, they do in others. And while some moderators find him offensive, others will find him intuitive. But no matter how you look at his posts, one thing remains constant. He commonly directs his venom toward the latest/newest members. This is where he receives most of his penalties. Who can say why he is so consistent with new members? Who knows? This is the way he's chosen to represent himself at Heroes Community.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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TheRealDeal
Promising
Supreme Hero
Foobum* of Justice!
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posted January 26, 2005 10:46 PM |
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Hey i'm not saying that that isn't true, he does diserve it, but i think it's a bad time, and i don't think it should have been that post.
I've said my peace, i have no more to give that would help here..
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*We all know the that Foobum is the class of all that is Cake.
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Lich
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 26, 2005 10:59 PM |
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Quote:
I think that penalty was uncalled for, he tries to help Tavern and he gets penalized? So what if he calls someone names ffs, aren't we adults?(or at the last close..) We'll probably survive.
I SAY NO TO THIS PENALTY!
HYPOCRITE !
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted January 27, 2005 12:01 AM |
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While I and a lot of others know that Stiven does have an interest in making this board a better place to visit, that will still never be an excuse for insulting people.
Pandora applied a very valid penalty that I would have as well had I seen it first.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted January 27, 2005 12:09 AM |
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Quote:
Oh and btw, as things happened i did think about this some last nite and i have an idea i concider good and wanna know if someone is interested in implementing it.
I will need preferbly 8-10 members though who should be quite different in age.
I Volunteer!
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 27, 2005 12:24 AM |
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I wont make a comment on the penalty. Its not my call or
concern. Pandora, you should know that Stiven can't
drive me away. He can be annoying, but words are no big
deal in the scheme of things. There is much he could
learn if he ever wanted to, but we shall see about that.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted January 27, 2005 01:46 AM |
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Of course you wont Shiva, you already caused enough damage on how better you are & I am surprised you didnt get a penalty either on your ego.
I would of been straight up with you & your behavior on how better you are & why dont you post the many thangs you have to say about Stiven or are you not lady enough to do so.
What does intelegence have to do with speaking your mind.
Why dont you come up with some ideas instead of Stiven all the time.
Living in the past HAHAHA where in the heck did that come from, were talking about making the tavern & improving to make it a better place not reminiscing the past. (yea I spelled it wrong so what )
What are we not allowed to defend ourselves & when we mention some truth we get penalized for it.
We are supposed to be working together to improve this place not attack because you dont like the type of person he is Shiva.
What are we supposed to be rocket scientist to be on your level now because you keep mentioning about Intelegence.
Typical reply
I dont agree with this penalty either because when you are attacked, you need to defend yourself & I think the truth hurts sometimes & some dont like to hear it.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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