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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted May 25, 2005 08:32 PM |
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QP applied to Dodd the Slayer for his Mystery Game series, and also a suggestion I hope he'll take on board to get the community even more involved *taps nose*
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted May 25, 2005 11:33 PM |
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Since everyone is in a giving mood (especially me  ), I would like to recommend another person...besides Conan...for a QP reward.
I think that Terje's Capitalist Statue Contest entry, in the MYT GAME, was superb! 
I'm sure that it took him some time to create the drawing and that it took some "serious thinking" to make sure that everything was so funny. So, I was hoping that he could be rewarded for that effort because it all came together in a great Post!
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted May 25, 2005 11:37 PM |
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And so was Woock's latest MYT entry (the one with the keyboard). He actually put that pic together by himself, by copying and pasting keys into different positions and then making sure that the colours and shading look perfect. I thought he'd simply found a pic on the net and posted that, although that of course isn't Woock's style...
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted May 26, 2005 01:14 AM |
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Oh so i did get some replies, thats good.
But to take this to step two,
First.. what will happend with TT then? Obviously something needs to be done for the 6 QP's there just looks like a toss. I see the irony but its no fun 
Second..
What will happen about the mod squad?
As stated, my suggestions was not meant as critism but more of a ultimate solution.
As for conan i off course wouldnt mind him being mod either. I like him. His unique skill would be the "boring modding part" primarily hehe.
So there we got 3 good possible mods, the best possible mod would off course be myself but i dont think thats very likely to happend
As for waiting for heroes V again... i think this place is good now.
Better than its been for a long time, so i think not trying to take advantage of it now would be too shoot ourselves in the foot.
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted May 26, 2005 01:33 AM |
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Well, to address the issue of Tossers Tavern not getting enough QPs, I made the effort of suggesting a new menu, 5 Posts down from the top, and was thoroughly rejected by the "TT regulars" without any consideration for the quality of my Post.
When I asked Pandora to review my Post, she gave me some reasons as to why it wouldn't receive a QP. I don't remember those reasons anymore and accepted her decision, but I was still dismayed by the reaction that I received from the "TT regulars".
Maybe if they had enjoyed my Post or found it funny, instead of telling me how I had no business suggesting another menu, my Post might have gotten a QP...therefore elevating the # of QPs in Tossers Tavern.
Maybe the "TT regulars" reaction to my Post had a part to play in it not receiving a QP, maybe it didn't...but maybe there are other good Posts somewhere in TT that received the same negative reaction, and so were overlooked for a QP.
Then again, maybe I don't know what I am talking about!
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted May 26, 2005 01:58 AM |
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With regards to Tosser's Tavern I will go through it all again (I bet it will be fun to re-read all that old stuff ) I will list in this thread any QP that I give out and on which page, this way members can see for themselves where they've been awarded, and if there is any issue at all towards whether or not I have been biased, it can be resolved here.
As for new moderators, this is something we will have to discuss further with Valeriy. At present the consensus has been that we are okay right now, but we have also all voiced our support and appreciation for those who have volunteered.
It's something that I think can and should be talked about, if members feel we have been lacking - or if we cannot improve.
One thing that I have spoken of in the past with Conan and Leo, in a half-joking type of way, was a moderator apprenticeship. A sort of training period for upcoming moderators, where it can be discussed how to handle certain types of situations, expectations, just in general the things that would be good to know before you took on the sword.
I think its an idea with merit, because while I am not really feeling that more moderators are needed right now - I do think that the members that have been suggested are fantastic, and I have nothing but respect for them, and I would hate to have them ever feel discouraged or as though their help is not needed/wanted.
This idea of course would need to be talked about with Valeriy if we were to try something like it, but having a few padawn mods around the place might be nice 
Also, to clarify when I made the comment about the advent of Heroes 5 to look forward to, I did not mean that we should be waiting on that to happen, or that we need it to happen to make HC great - my thinking was more to the effect that if the positive changes keep happening around here, it will make HC a more inviting place for new members as they arrive with Heroes 5, and more members mean more fun 
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted May 26, 2005 03:36 AM |
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Leo, as for the TT menu...
Think of a pub in your town that has a small cliché of people. The regulars there. They know every inch of the place, they know the bartenders story by heart depending on how he clears his throat. They know every detail on the menues, from the drinklist to the snacks and the big ketchup spot on page 4. They like it like that, they love the place as a place where they can just relax and have fun. Its "their" place. They dont mind new people, as a matter of fact they like to see the occational new face sharing their stories aswell. So you can say that all these years the place has been traditional but yet open if you wanna be a part of it.
Then think of a guy who just moved to town and comes in asking if they...want new menues with some cool additions. They say no as they love the menu they already got. Then the new guy comes in a few days later with newly printed menues and wants to replace the new ones. How do you think his actions will be recieved?
And.. can you blame them?
Though nice idea btw.. im gonna read through TT aswell.
All the 2150+ posts.
As for mod squad, with the risk of sounding critic. But my experience tells me that the ones sitting in topplaces often thinks things are going smooth even when they could use improvement. Thats why getting the working peoples (read: members ) opinions are so important because its hard to see your own shortcomings. We all have that problem, its the same when you have written an essay, assignment or something else. Its very rare you notice your own faults when it comes to grammar and such. Thats when you need others to help you out.
Im not saying the mod activity is bad now though.
What im saying is that it can be improved. And i think my ideas rock
so there.. off to start reading TT posts, starting with our first classic one
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted May 26, 2005 03:58 AM |
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thanks for the nice and constructive comments everyone! Wow, this discussion is really going well on all sides.
Some of the issues at hand:
About the menu you made, Léo, I thought it was good, but it's the Tosser's Tavern... so they Tossed you after that menu. It was to be expected in my mind. In the Tavern, the way I see it, if you get Tossed, use that Toss to redirect it to another member to gain respect and become a regular. Anyways, that's my view on it: Toss and get Tossed!
The idea of a Padawan is fantastic. I'd love to take part in that. I'd do everything that is necessary for my apprenticeship.
As for TT, I went and looked at the first couple of pages and man ... well, I gave up.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted May 26, 2005 04:50 AM |
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Quote:
As for TT, I went and looked at the first couple of pages and man ... well, I gave up.
you shouldnt have, ive read through all the old tavern and the first 21 pages in our current.
And ive been laughing so hard my stomach hurts. Guess id better go sleep
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted May 26, 2005 07:51 AM |
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Oh man...my bad! 
After rereading the responses that I got from the "TT regulars", after I Posted my menu, I just realized that they were simply tossing me. No harm, no foul.
Thanks for clearing things up for me Sir_Stiven & Conan, now I'm only embarassed, instead of being sad!
P.S. As for the Mod issue, I wrote a little something that might explain how I feel about the whole situation:
Click here before reading on...
If I were to become a current Moderator's Padawan, I think that I would only end up being held back. 
I'm ready for the "Trials" to become a Mod Knight right now! 
Why do they always hold me back...it's not fair?! 
If I were to be promoted, I would immediately rival any current Mod's abilities...and they know it!
That's why they won't promote me...their jealous! 
But, I'll show them...I'll become the greatest Mod Master ever!
Then, I'll make them regret that they ever tried to hold me back...I'll make them pay dearly! 
(Can anyone tell that I watched Episode II lately? )
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted May 26, 2005 02:46 PM |
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Am I supposed to take this seriously with the Death Star Music now stuck in my head for the rest of the day??
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted May 26, 2005 04:34 PM |
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to get this back on topic..
I read something interesting here aswell about not allowing yourself to do as you want in a fear of being partial. Which is kinda comical.. because partial is what you are when you deny members credit aswell just because you know them.
As for the emails about the fellow canadians was supposed to be favoritsed please direct em to me and i gladly help out discussing which QP's thats supposed to be given out of friendship. Because ive checked some profiles here now and well most members has 1-2 QP's that can appear to be cheap. But thats life i guess
Though the check up was interesting, not only did it show that i obviously not agree with the favor canadians claim but also that some people ive been harsh on
Ive always seen dingo as the most undeserved high QP poster, and well i agree that some are IMO deserved and others seem very cheap.
I also saw woock as having too many but there i can say i was wrong. Ive checked his bonuses and IMO i agree with most of em... if not all of em. Credit too woock.
Though i did also find a new "most overrated" poster. His obviously newly "honorable". Though IMO thats one of the biggest tosses in HC history. Out of his QP's i can honestly say that i thought 3-4 was deserved, as for the rest some were ideas with potential that died off at the same time the QP were given it seems (also known as the RSF syndrome ) whereas other QP's seem just stupid. There were for example a thread that made no sense whatsoever which led to the poster removing pictures to make it more appealing... then it seemed to have gotten a QP.
I understand that removing QP's later obviously will not happend.
But my point with this was to show that favoritism isnt favoritism just because you like another member group or they come from your country.
Also some people are wrongly judged... as for me woock was the most obvious case.
And.. some members can IMO be judged as favored not mainly because the highest percent of QP's comes from the forum where the mods came from the same country but rather that they shared many opinions. Obviously many other mods must concider this guy polite as im sure other members do. But if you IMO wanna look at favoritism, this is where your eyes should go first.
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 26, 2005 04:52 PM |
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OMG! My name appeared in a Stiven post! Thrice! Not typoed! And in positive comments, too!
I'm honored
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted May 26, 2005 05:30 PM |
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Well yes I'm Canadian, but:
1) I only received 1 star from Pan in the Philosophy over a glass of beer thread. Then I received one from Hexa for the Library ToC and the rest I think are from Asmodean. Conclusion: no favoritism here.
2) Jebus has no QP's so he's not an issue.
3) Sirzapdos received 2 QP's: one from Angelito and the other from Pandora for the list of Pixel art. Conclusion: no favoritism here.
4) This only leaves Léo. At the time I heard about this email, he had I think 4 QP's. so then let's look at the first 4 QP's: 1 in the Alcohol thread (hilarious post) maybe by Pandora, 1 in "incentive to 5 star post" probalby again by Pandora but for a hard earned lengthy post, another in the philosophy over a glass of beer by either Pan or Asmo - not sure here... but most likely for a bunch of long and well thought out posts in that thread since the start. It had to happen. Finally, he got his 4th in the Vamps thread for an incredible idea he had. I even think it was given by Asmo since Pandora didn't post in that thread. Conclusion: possible favoritism, but considering the work that was put in his posts, can one really argue?
5) Marelt_Ekiran has 5 stars, his last one dates back to more than a year ago and was given by Lith in a Tavern thread. Then all his other QP's where earned in the Altar of Wishes forum, where Pandora does not mod. Conclusion: Marelt did not even get a QP from Pandora so figure it out...
Any other Canadians I am unaware of?
So there we have it. Might I add that Léo and I have both been nominated for Noob of the year for 2004 and so one should expect that we'd receive more QP's.
Final conclusion: These emails might of been from someone who saw me and léo get qp's for good posts one after another, which is fair and it happens we are Canadians, but from what I heard in the HC awards, most people would agree that we should of gotten these QPs.
Hope this wraps it up.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted May 26, 2005 08:35 PM |
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While I don't agree with the label you have set for this individual, Sir_Stiven, I've found some of his QPs in the Tavern interesting, as well. I've also seen the RSF syndrome in effect too, but I'm almost as guilty of that myself...almost!
The weird thing is that it always happens with ideas that are good, but that aren't very strong. He obviously commits to making these ideas work and puts lots of time into them, but I'll admit that despite his best efforts, the quality of the Threads & Posts for which he is rewarded aren't always top 2%.
But, I see this whole thing as a balancing effect. What I mean is that many of his best Posts in the "Other Side" seem to not get rewarded because he already has so many QPs in that Forum. So, maybe getting rewarded for his hard work & determination in other Forums, is a way of attaining an equilibrium.
Either way, I have no problems with the process under which the rewards were given out and I have the loads of respect for this Honourable person.
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted May 26, 2005 10:25 PM |
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Quote:
I read something interesting here aswell about not allowing yourself to do as you want in a fear of being partial. Which is kinda comical.. because partial is what you are when you deny members credit aswell just because you know them.
Agreed, I didn't mention it as an explanation - but because it was something I realized that I was doing wrong, so I was 'fessing up as it were, and saying I will correct that.
Taking away QP is always difficult as it's hard to know why one mod will QP something sometimes, we are all different. A great example would be the whole April Fool's thing before with RSF. There were QP given to balance penalties in strange place, it was my inclination to remove them all - but I was told the reason so left them... but these QP do damage to the system I think.
This brings me to another point that's been on my mind. There are several members mainly here, in Tribunal and in the Wastelands that I think are extremely valuable to the community. Obviously all members are, but in any situation there are some that will rise up and give that extra something to make the place better. This to me is difficult to handle, because I find myself searching for a post to give them a QP in, sometimes their posts one their own don't really stand for the top2%, however their contibution shouldn't go without some sort of reward.
I was thinking that one possible way to handle this would be to create a new award for Contribution Points, this way members can be recognized for theit part in the community as opposed to the superious quality of their posting style.
This would be especially great for me in the Wastelands, because in spite of the fact that it's spam land, its an important part of the community. People go there and get to know each other, have fun, be silly etc - without the members that keep the Wastelands going, I think the forum as a whole would feel a huge loss. However, these posts are not QP worthy, and as well they would be deleted anyways - so here comes teh problem. If we had a seperate award that just showed a members' contribution (something beyond simple post count) it would really help the moderators I think, and would be a great tool for rewarding our posters.
It would also stop from giving QP to random posts just because the moderator wants to show some appreciation for a member. I find that these "token" QP are harmful to the system, just in that we advise new members to read through QP'd posts for examples of what the mods consider Quality. If a member looks at say naked girls, the post says "how you doin?" so what does that tell anyone about what quality is?
Finally with regards to the emails, they were from i think the same person, 1 fake name one real - I don't think its something to take issue about. I know I don't favour Canadians, I favour hockey fans LOL j/k!!
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted May 26, 2005 11:11 PM |
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Quote:
It would also stop from giving QP to random posts just because the moderator wants to show some appreciation for a member. I find that these "token" QP are harmful to the system, just in that we advise new members to read through QP'd posts for examples of what the mods consider Quality. If a member looks at say naked girls, the post says "how you doin?" so what does that tell anyone about what quality is?
This i particulary agree with.
Ive always disliked the "earned" QP's or whatever you wanna call them because IMO its just a way for a moderator to give a QP to who ever they want and since its "deserved over a long time" you cant questionize it.
Just as much as i dislike the "earned" penalties.
And i particular dislike the latter hehe, because even though ive not gotten an "earned" QP so far though IMO i should have had atleast 10 it feels really frustating earning a penalty, like for example.
Ive always watched my language here, the times ive used the F word can easily be counted on one hand. And any other "violent" language i never use. Mostly because i think bad language indicates a low selection of words to use and therefor is a sign of stupidity
So then it feels IMO really ridicioulus to get a penalty for not using **** instead of typing the f word so it gets censored anyway, i thought the "head up mod ass comment" penalty was harsh but the miscensored one were simply ridicioulus.
Reason im bringing this up now is because ive never been so fed up with the QP system. To gain a QP most of us has to put in alot of thought and effort and even then its a matter of taste. But some posts/threads when it comes to for example games takes more thinking than others.
To put this in a practical example i can use my own WANTED game, i dunno how many hours ive put into that game as it is now and then its only half way done
And all those hours gets neutralised when it comes to QP's because of a miscensored word.
Which is the reason i dont care about em for me. But when you still see some members profiles and the QP amount and the posts gained for its hard too keep quiet. Some members see QP's as their highlight in their lifes here it seems. So its unfair to them primarily when some get awards where others never should have.
IMO the QP system will never be ok as long as you get the feeling that the name next to the post means more than the post itself.
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted May 27, 2005 12:05 AM |
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I love your idea, Pandora!
The notion of having "Contribution Points" in addition to "Quality Points" (CPs & QPs), is remarkable!
I think that it can even be integrated at this very moment, as long as Moderators were to EDIT the Post and explain that the "little red star" was being given as a CP, and not as a QP...or vice versa.
Now do you see why you won for "Who had the best idea for board improvement?" in the HC Awards of 2004, Pandora?! It's because of things like this!
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted May 27, 2005 12:10 AM |
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Well surely it could be taken further and a set number of CP's = a QP?
____________
To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted May 27, 2005 01:01 AM |
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and it can be taken even further and you seperate em completely as one represents postings and the other contributions.
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This thread is pages long: 
