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angelito
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posted August 12, 2010 12:42 PM |
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The difference is, I have to act similar to a police commissionar, while Azagal is just a "normal" member without a "job" here.
And no, I won't start any discussion with Elodin. I stopped that long time ago. Extremists who live their whole life after a 2000 year old book without learning, adopting and improving are a "no go" for me.
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted August 12, 2010 12:43 PM |
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But why are you constantly replying to his posts then? 
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is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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angelito
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posted August 12, 2010 12:46 PM |
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Quote:
But why are you constantly replying to his posts then?
I don't reply to his bible quotes, I reply to his "justification" posts, where he always shows why he did nothing wrong, or where he shows what others did wrong.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted August 12, 2010 03:42 PM |
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Quote:
And no, I won't start any discussion with Elodin. I stopped that long time ago. Extremists who live their whole life after a 2000 year old book without learning, adopting and improving are a "no go" for me.
You are the last peson who shoud call someone an extremist.
You seem to be an intollerant extremist anti-Christian. You want don't mind when others engage in anti-Christian bashing but get mad when I quote the Bible and prove their lies about Christianity to be lies.
Oh, it is false to say I don't learn, adopt, and improve myself.
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I don't reply to his bible quotes, I reply to his "justification" posts, where he always shows why he did nothing wrong, or where he shows what others did wrong.
Yeah, you pretty much allow others to insult me at will just like you yourself do and then condemn me if I object.
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Salamandre
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posted August 12, 2010 03:48 PM |
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If there was only Angelito, I could agree. But pissing of 100% of people here and still not ask yourself "what is wrong with me" is a paradox I can't handle or understand.
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Era II mods and utilities
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angelito
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posted August 12, 2010 06:11 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 18:13, 12 Aug 2010.
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Quote:
You are the last peson who shoud call someone an extremist.
You seem to be an intollerant extremist anti-Christian. You want don't mind when others engage in anti-Christian bashing but get mad when I quote the Bible and prove their lies about Christianity to be lies..
I am a very tolerant guy, believe it or not. But only as long as someone understands when he should stop convincing others by repeating things 200 times and annoy me like nothing else. Most of religious people understand, people who do not believe in the bible don't want a discussion about the bible every week. They accept the different points of view and let it be. That's because (I have said that numerous times already), RELIGION IS A PRIVATE THING. Everybody is responsbile for his OWN life. If I act wrong, and God exists, he will show the day when I die. If he does not exist, nothing wrong. God will never make a TRUE CHRISTIAN responsible for my actions.
So as long as someone keeps his religious stuff for himself, everything is fine. My wife is a deep believing woman, her whole family is. I am not. I drive her to her church twice a week and pick her up again. But she never tries to convince me about the bible. I never start a discussion with her about religion. We only get into trouble when some extreme points come up, especially the "I don't want blood from other people in hospital" thing, which is a main point in the group of Jehova's witnesses.
She loves me, her family loves me, there are no problems at all. They are tolerant to people who do NOT believe, as long as they are still nice persons. And they accept there ARE nice persons who do NOT live after the bible.
And this is where you seem to fail Elodin. Everybody who is NOT a true christian seems like an Untermensch for you. Even though you never used this word, you make everyone who doesn't fit into your view of the world feel like that.
So let's ask again: Who is MORE tolerant? A true christian towards EVERY non-christian, or someone who doesn't care about God and the bible towards EVERYONE else?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted August 12, 2010 06:12 PM |
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Speak for yourself. I don't mind Elodin's opinions and more than anybody else's.
A tolerance competiton. How unbearable.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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JollyJoker
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posted August 12, 2010 06:24 PM |
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I don't see much of a competition.
It seems amazing, though, that no one seems to care about historical lies here.
Ah, facts. So boring. Never changing....
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted August 12, 2010 06:29 PM |
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Elodin
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posted August 12, 2010 07:48 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 19:52, 12 Aug 2010.
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@angelito
Quote:
So as long as someone keeps his religious stuff for himself, everything is fine.
How is someone making false statements about what the Bible/Christianity teaches keeping one's religion to himself????? I find that 99.9% of the time when religion is brought into a topic it is by an anti-Chritian making false statements about Christians. It is those those types of posts where I quote Bible verses.
You seem to have absolutely no issue with people making anti-Christian statements but you take issue when the Bible is quoted to prove that the person made false statements about Christianity.
Anti-Christians can't support their false claims with facts. Their lies about what the Bible/Christianity says can easily be refuted by quoting the Bible. Which seems to be the reason you delete Bible quotes and leave biggoted anti-Christian remarks.
Quote:
And this is where you seem to fail Elodin. Everybody who is NOT a true christian seems like an Untermensch for you.
I've never said anyone is subhuman or inferior. Such talk is the beliefs of progressives which is why National Socialist Germany claimed Jews, blacks and others to be Untermensch. Lenin, Stalin, and other atheist leaders also viewed non-whites as sub-human.
If you claim I have ever called anyone sub-human quote it or I will be inclined to think you are a lügner who was just lying in order to smear and provoke me.
You seem to forget that everyone who is a Christian once was not a Christian. I do not view non-believers as sub-humans so I would appreaciate it if you would not lie about me.
Quote:
So let's ask again: Who is MORE tolerant? A true christian towards EVERY non-christian, or someone who doesn't care about God and the bible towards EVERYONE else?
A true Christian because he loves everyone and does not lie about them or try to keep them from presenting evidence that may contradict his opinions.
You have shown your attitude to be hostile to the Bible and to Christianity.
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Salamandre
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posted August 12, 2010 07:51 PM |
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JollyJoker
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posted August 12, 2010 08:35 PM |
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I protest officially against the latest post deletions.
I mean
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Can someone please explain to me what the IRA has to do with building a Mosque in New York?
I didn't answer that, because this is a silly question, even for the standard that seems to become established here. But
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I am really tired of this now.
And no, I did not only delete the religious posts, but everything else which has nothing to do with what Corribus just stated.
If you do not stop to post unrelated stuff, this thread will find his way to the Wastelands pretty soon.
now I've seen everything.
It's not enough to hear each day the same whine about "anti-Christian" postings, when we have anti-communist, anti-lberal, anti-socialist, anti-leftist, anti-pro-choice, anti-atheist, anti-intellectual, anti-sanity, anti-reason, anti-truth, anti-fact postings on a permanent basis and as a rule, no - now it is considered off-topic, when talking about the consequences of a terror attack and the links between a terror group and religion to have a look on other terror groups and religion and how it's there.
Thanks, del_diablo.
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Am I the only one here who reads JJ's post and properly understands them?
The reason he drags in IRA, is because they are catholics, but some obscure reason they are treated as what they are: A bunch of people who wants something done.
Al Qaudia terrorista? They are treated completely different, and people got this stupid "MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS!" thing going on.
What did he point at when making that post? Muslims being related to 9/11, where a bunch of fanatical madmen decided to bring terror down into another country who pisses of the world on regular basis, murdering quite a bit of people and destroying 2 great buildings(whom are debated if they fell due the terrorists, or ulterior motivs of maybe the goverment).
All JJ is doing, is making a argument over that religion is more or less unrelated to the issue.
What I really wonder is, would angelito have deleted that stuff as well, when Corribus had not asked that eminently intelligent question?
This whole thing starts to feel more and more like a joke.
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angelito
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posted August 13, 2010 10:18 AM |
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Of course the poster always feels that he is on topic 
And still I don't see any relation between the IRA and building a mosque in New York.
This thread is not about terrorism, muslim terrorists, bombing, catholics and protestants.
It is about a specific problem:
Is it "ok" to build a religious building on the place where religious people attacked the USA and killed around 3,000 people. And the building stands for the same religion as the terrorists belong to.
And there were 2 very good positions in this thread. 1 from Binabik, who represents the "pissed off victims" and one from JollyJoker, who isn't related to that issue at all but stands for the "logical" part, where just the laws should be followed.
This is what the thread is about.
We have similar issues here in Germany:
We have demonstrations of Nazi groups every year on Hitler's birthday, on Heß's obit.
Every "normal" german is against this cause of our history and what the Nazis did to the world. But the law is on their side. Pisses of many, but what can we do?
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JollyJoker
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posted August 13, 2010 10:48 AM |
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Quote:
Is it "ok" to build a religious building on the place where [supposedly] religious people attacked the USA and killed around 3,000 people. And the building stands for the same religion as the terrorists belong to.
I added the "supposedly", because the only indication there is for that, is their claim.
The connection with the IRA is that, they are people who used to attack Britain, having killed a whole lot of people - and there IS a clear religious dividing line between the protestant-Anglican Brits and the catholic Irish. So this is QUITE obviously a comparable, parallel case, isn't it? You MIGHT ask the question whether they would get a fit in Britain, if there was a Catholic church to be built in the vicinity of an IRA bombing, especially since the religious dimension of the conflict HAVE been an issue in the past, that is, the religious dimension was, let's say mentioned. Strangely enough - which makes it relevant - it never had any impact the way it seems to have here, EVEN THOUGH, there is, locally spoken, a clear religious partition between Brits and Irish.
If THAT is off-topic now, the whole thread is off-topic, because the issue isn't the mosque, the issue is the violation of personality rights of the guy who wants to build the mosque.
Quote:
And there were 2 very good positions in this thread. 1 from Binabik, who represents the "pissed off victims" and one from JollyJoker, who isn't related to that issue at all but stands for the "logical" part, where just the laws should be followed.
Frankly, we are not at school, and you are not the teacher who rates positions. Or did I miss something?
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This is what the thread is about.
Not at all. The thread is, about how the guy is investigated by the stately authorities because he wants to build a mosque at GZ.
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We have similar issues here in Germany:
We have demonstrations of Nazi groups every year on Hitler's birthday, on Heß's obit.
Every "normal" german is against this cause of our history and what the Nazis did to the world. But the law is on their side. Pisses of many, but what can we do?
Extremely off-topic, in light of your off-topic ruling. And it's NOT a similar issue, not at all. A similar issue was a congress about aryan history, to be held in Nürnberg.
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angelito
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posted August 13, 2010 12:02 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 12:18, 13 Aug 2010.
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I am not a teacher, but I am allowed to post my opinion...
And there is no OFF topic in the feedback thread... JJ
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JollyJoker
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posted August 13, 2010 12:37 PM |
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I'm not about to discuss that, especially since there is no discussion wanted anyway, since the actual issues are ignored.
What is and what is not off-topic in a thread is a matter of interpretation, and obviously is a matter of interpretation for the moderators.
However, in this case the IRA is not even a grey area; it's clearly on topic, as was the RAF, which I made a lengthy post about as well and which was NOT considered off-topic.
I can't shake the feeling, that it was just a question of Corribus which brought that up, and if there is a person here in this forum who needs just to ask one question and the moderators are busily doing his will, you can make that person moderaror just as well.
Al Quaida is obviously not off-topic here, and since Al Quaida is a terror organisation, others, like the IRA or the RAF may offer material for comparison - precedences if you want to. That cannot be off-topic when it is used to demonstrate that this case is treated differently than others.
To declare that off-topic is ignorant at best.
As a PS, if limiting or even withdrawing of basic rights is an acceptable consequence of "people being pissed-off" and theerefore "a good point", you can piss off the whole constitition because it's not worth a fart anymore. Pissed-off people have a right to make themselvess heard, but that must not lead to pressurizing authorities into breaking existing laws.
The correct way is, taking a solicitor and trying, legally, to put a stop on building the mosque, with the authorities being strictly neutral.
Otherwise we could just go back to basic lynch-justice.
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blizzardboy
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posted August 13, 2010 04:30 PM |
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Quote:
As a PS, if limiting or even withdrawing of basic rights is an acceptable consequence of "people being pissed-off" and theerefore "a good point", you can piss off the whole constitition because it's not worth a fart anymore. Pissed-off people have a right to make themselvess heard, but that must not lead to pressurizing authorities into breaking existing laws.
The correct way is, taking a solicitor and trying, legally, to put a stop on building the mosque, with the authorities being strictly neutral.
Otherwise we could just go back to basic lynch-justice.
QFT
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JollyJoker
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posted August 16, 2010 05:00 PM |
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Since posting critical feedback here is simply a waste, maybe positive feedback isn't - although I doubt it. Coming from me, it will probably have the contrary effect, for all the weight ignorant snows like me can put on the scales in contrast to other more exalted personalities hereabouts - which is not the fault of said exalted personalities, I hasten to add.
So, for what it is worth, I suggest a qp for Shyranis's contributions in the "Believing in privacy rights..." threads. Reasons would be sheer level-headedness in dealing with a sensitive issue, calm and mater-of-fact manner of discussion with a more difficult to communicate with member of the community, and general reason and insights as well as posting with a positive attitude, still believing in the power of reason and rationality.
I apologize to Shyranis, should this request backfire in any way which isn't all that unlikely.
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1910
Known Hero
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posted August 16, 2010 10:32 PM |
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I would like to quote a part of your post, JJ, which i think you and others could benefit from:
Quote:
general reason and insights as well as posting with a positive attitude, still believing in the power of reason and rationality
This is lacking from most of the main OSM contributors (except Corribus).
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Corribus
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posted August 16, 2010 10:35 PM |
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Quote:
This is lacking from most of the main OSM contributors (except Corribus).
Aw, that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. 
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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