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Salamandre
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posted August 16, 2010 11:13 PM |
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Rationality is so boring sometimes, specially when it is clearly prepared for qp hunting (ie I let people fighting and when it is done, I throw some rational conclusion so I am intelligent).
Hearing people's temper is more conclusive about who they really are.
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JollyJoker
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posted August 17, 2010 08:11 AM |
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It's funny, isn't it: There I made a positive post, trying to suggest a qp - and the next poster quotes the same phrase I use for praise for a reproach.
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Mytical
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posted August 17, 2010 08:22 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 08:33, 17 Aug 2010.
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I agree with you Jolly, and not just for that thread. Shyranis is one of the more polite posters, and usually makes a good debate.
Also, while most of the feedback (even critical) here IS a good thing, some of it is just people who whine when things don't go their way. If you need other examples of when this happen, visit www.customerssuck.com/board/ you will find many cases of "Self Entitlement". "Self Entitlement" is when somebody doesn't think the rules should apply to them, or complain about the rules to the people who can't do a thing about the rules. There is ONE person on this board who makes the rules. That is Val.
While some of the rules are open to interpretation, that is why he put the people he put in the position to interpret them. You are free to disagree with the interpretation, BUT remember WE are under no obligation to agree with you. Most people do not understand, nor do they want to that for every person that thinks "That is so unfair!" there is another that thinks "Wow that was the right thing to do." we can not make everybody happy, so we have to do what we think is right..regardless of what you or others may think.
WE are also human, and are normally willing to listen when things are done correctly. Instead of blaming everybody else, you might want to start looking at yourself. If 'everybody' is giving you issues, maybe just maybe the common denominator is .. you.
Jolly, at one time you had my utmost respect. I would say I even respected you more then Elvin. I HOPE that you will understand that I have nothing against you personally. Nor against Elodin, but both of you have to stop and think. What is the common denominator with your problems? The common factor? Angelito? Nope. Me? Nope. Other people? Nope.
The common factor in all your problems can be summed up in two words.
JollyJoker
Elodin
Think about it, though I am probably just going to cause more issues, and wasting my time.
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JollyJoker
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posted August 17, 2010 09:36 AM |
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Quote:
Instead of blaming everybody else, you might want to start looking at yourself. If 'everybody' is giving you issues,... .
Standard rant mode, yet again? It's like a switch was flicked. Make a post in the Feedback thread - no matter for what purpose - and, blam, there it is.
Except that the continuing use of the word "everybody" seems a bit excessive, even for a snow like myself who dared to critisize that now even a silly question of St. Corribus is now enough to suddenly start "cleaning". You could have had the decency to put a "most" before the "everybody".
Angelito will know the German comedian who said, sometimes it can't hurt, if you have absolutely no idea about something, to just shut the snow up.
I still fail to see, why, if debating the effect of an attack of a certain terror group, comparing that with the effect of attacks of other comparable terror groups should be off-topic, for that matter.
Anyway, let me correct a slight error of yours - I do not have any issues with Elodin. Elodin is ... well, Elodin. You know what you get, and I could write his posts, most of them, anyway. We disagree, on practically every matter, but that's obvious, and what is more, it is well-known. Since I COULD write his posts, I know what he would answer, if I would answer to a post of him, so that's completely unnecessary and I just try and correct some all too bold twists of reality, citing alternative material to read, mainly for the unsuspecting reader
What I do have issues with, though, is moderational bias and ignorance. For example, angelito often takes Elodin up on points, and if he was a normal board member you might find some of his posts unnecessarily provoking. A moderator might say, something like, angelito, you know Elodin's point of view from a couple thousand posts before and you know it makes no sense to try and entangle him in contradictions - it just leads to provoking.
Since he's a mod, though, he can - and Elodin has to tread very carefully, when answering.
Now compare that with his comment in the privacy thread, where he warned ME for provoking, while advising Binabik to not let his flawless usual self be tainted by devil JJ's foul provocations.
Let me finish this little chit-chat with a quote of yours that ironically could be from Elodin:
Quote:
I HOPE that you will understand that I have nothing against you personally. Nor against Elodin
Spoken like a true Christian - that is, if you switch "you personally" with "sinners" and if you add, I only have something against "sin".
I always thought that was a most dishonest statement, geared to claim an objective, impersonal ground on which to commit the most horrible crimes of the inquisition, invoking the illusion of "purging sin", instead of maiming and torturing real people. (And, Elodin, before you start, they - and you - probably really believed the stuff, so keep cool.)
But as opposed to Elodin's little signbature, I think the worst four English words are, sorry, it's nothing personal. In this case it's a bit suspicious when claiming Quote:
Jolly, at one time you had my utmost respect. I would say I even respected you more then Elvin
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Nothing more personal than disappointment, right?
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Mytical
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posted August 17, 2010 09:44 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 10:23, 17 Aug 2010.
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Where did I say I was disappointed? No, you have every right to your opinion, I just don't agree with it. *shrugs*
Also, let me clarify. The common factor for YOU is not Elodin. That was more directed to Elodin..as he sometimes has issue with certain rulings also.
Further I must apologize, apparently you are unaware of use of figure of speech. Which is why I put everybody in the ' '. So allow me to correct the situation. If 'mostly everybody' is giving you problems, then maybe the problem is not them. The common factor is yourself.
In addition. Ignorance and Moderation. So we are ignorant JUST because we do not agree with you? [sarcasm] Thanks, now I know what the issue is. We MUST agree with you, or we are idiots and ignorant.[/sarcasm]. Yeah.
Quote:
Standard rant mode, yet again? It's like a switch was flicked. Make a post in the Feedback thread - no matter for what purpose - and, blam, there it is.
Except that the continuing use of the word "everybody" seems a bit excessive, even for a snow like myself who dared to critisize that now even a silly question of St. Corribus is now enough to suddenly start "cleaning".
Lastly, this is not 'rant mode'. Believe me, you would know when I am upset/angry/in rant mode. Since I will put a [rant][/rant]. Just a useless attempt to get you to pause and understand that not everybody sees things your way.
You have one thing right though. I should have just kept my trap shut, I knew what I was saying would be misunderstood or fall on deaf ears.
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angelito
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posted August 17, 2010 10:34 AM |
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What you fail to see Jolly is, the experience we Mods have here with most of the members. That's why maybe some of our actions seem biased.
But in fact, they aren't. Binabik for example is normaly one of the better posters, especially in the OSM. He only gets upset when people who are not from america critize things in the USA. And if it doesn't stop, like in the discussion with you, he is not able to just leave the discussion, but let himself get provoked by your stubborn way of arguing.
And this is where we come to our experience with you.
While you often have good arguments and keep discussions / threads alive, you often miss the point where you should just stop. Just saying "ok". You know the phrase "riding a dead horse"?
In a community, you can never treat all members the same. You have to take their different behaviour into consideration.
And about "provoking" Elodin.
You are right, I sometimes shouldn't answer to his posts, because I hardly can resist to put a "potshot" into my reply, and this may not be the best way for a moderator to "lead by example".
But I am human, so please forgive me my imperfection 
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JollyJoker
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posted August 17, 2010 10:40 AM |
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Ok. I made a request for a qp. These things were encouraged.
I get an "agreed" (not that anything would happen in that regard, though), and a sermon - probably because I spiced my request with a grain of salt and someone felt piqued. You might even say I provoked the sermon and I answered it.
Allow me two remarks:
1: I gave an example for moderational BIAS (angelito) in my last post. I suppose I should thank you for handing me one for ignorance:
Quote:
In addition. Ignorance and Moderation. So we are ignorant JUST because we do not agree with you? [sarcasm] Thanks, now I know what the issue is. We MUST agree with you, or we are idiots and ignorant.[/sarcasm]. Yeah.
Since I'm sure you CAN read, ignorance is the only explanation for MISreading my post so thoroughly. On second thought it might be deliberate ill-will as well which, then, would qualify for bias. Let's just sum it up as one often comes with the other, or, sometimes there is bias and has ignorance in its wake, but sometimes there is ignorance and has bias in the wake. Not, that I would be immune against that poison, mind you.
2: You don't need to say, that you are disappointed. If you have respect for someone or something, and you lose that respect, disappointment is basically automatic - be it genuinely about a supposed "change" (this guy used to be so ... [positive characterization], what the hell happened to him??) or about having made so wrong an assessment (I thought, the guy was so [positive characterization], but now I've come to see that he was just maintaining a clever front and got me fooled for a time).
So I don't hesitate to admit, I AM disappointed. You really do stop and start thinking, if you make a positive suggestion for a qp for basically everything that is deemed positive on a board, and you end defending yourself for not qualifying for that qp yourself - that is, you would stop, if you hadn't stopped some time ago already.
I suppose, I'll start suggesting negative qps again - that, at least, might bring positive comments about the so slandered apart from negative comments about me.
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JollyJoker
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posted August 17, 2010 10:55 AM |
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Quote:
What you fail to see Jolly is, the experience we Mods have here with most of the members. That's why maybe some of our actions seem biased.
But in fact, they aren't. Binabik for example is normaly one of the better posters, especially in the OSM. He only gets upset when people who are not from america critize things in the USA. And if it doesn't stop, like in the discussion with you, he is not able to just leave the discussion, but let himself get provoked by your stubborn way of arguing.
And this is where we come to our experience with you.
While you often have good arguments and keep discussions / threads alive, you often miss the point where you should just stop. Just saying "ok". You know the phrase "riding a dead horse"?
In a community, you can never treat all members the same. You have to take their different behaviour into consideration.
And about "provoking" Elodin.
You are right, I sometimes shouldn't answer to his posts, because I hardly can resist to put a "potshot" into my reply, and this may not be the best way for a moderator to "lead by example".
But I am human, so please forgive me my imperfection
God, what a post.
Let me just quote this one again, because it's so interesting:
Quote:
Binabik for example is normaly one of the better posters, especially in the OSM. He only gets upset when people who are not from america critize things in the USA.
Fine point. Elodin as well only gets upset when people who are not Christians, critisize Christianity. Others are fine posters as well and only get upset when when people who are no muslims critisize Islam.
Seriously, what kind of point is that supposed to be? Is Binabik never critisizing anything outside of America? Do you have to be in fact part of something to critisize it?
I'm not in the mood to address the more arrogant part, but I close with, I can forgive your imperfection, but I cannot excuse your bias - you are obviously doing the same you accuse me of - flogging a dead horse. The difference is, you are police, I'm not. We may both be forgiven, but if YOU as the police have an excuse, WE as common posters have doubly and triply so.
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Mytical
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posted August 17, 2010 11:01 AM |
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It has nothing to do with the QP request. My observation was a 'general statement'. The fact that it was on the same post as the agreement of the QP was coincidence, or even (I will admit) poor planning on my part.
The thing is Jolly, that here is what you have been saying (maybe not what you MEAN to say).
"Anybody who doesn't agree with my views/way of thinking is Ignorant and Biased." IMPLYING that you are better then everybody. That is self entitlement.
Now, I know..here it comes "You do the same thing." I won't get into that, because it won't matter what I say..people will think what they wish. I live by the 'live and let live' philosophy. So even if I don't agree with you, I agree with your right to think however you wish.
So I will be a bit blunt. You will not always get your way, you are not always right (and I know, neither am I..I am ok with that). You are free to disagree with Moderation, but we are free to not agree with you also. That is the way things go.
I read your posts carefully, but you seem to just skim mine, and read what you want from them.
So let me clarify (or try a few things).
My last posts are NOT about you saying anything about Corribus. Corribus is perfectly capable of taking care of himself. Nor is it about the QP request. At ALL. It is a GENERAL statement, in hopes that YOU (and I hate having to emphasize words like this) might understand that while Moderators are not perfect, we do have a job to do. When things don't go your way, you have to learn that there is a point that you SHOULD let it go. Just like now, I'm letting it go.
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JollyJoker
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posted August 17, 2010 11:39 AM |
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Quote:
The thing is Jolly, that here is what you have been saying (maybe not what you MEAN to say).
"Anybody who doesn't agree with my views/way of thinking is Ignorant and Biased." IMPLYING that you are better then everybody. That is self entitlement.
I did say that? I'd be interested in the quotes and reasoning behind that, but I suppose you can't have everything and I should be content with getting such a bucketful of feedback and good advice on the occasion of stumbling into the feedback thread.
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angelito
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posted August 17, 2010 07:22 PM |
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See what I mean?
Even here in the feedback thread you have to have the last word. Otherwise you can't sleep well it seems.
Just learn to read a post and go on, instead of replying to everything you see....
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JollyJoker
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posted August 17, 2010 09:03 PM |
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If you tell someone he has to have the last word, you immediately falsify that statement, but let me help you making it a correct statement again by giving an advice as well.
Just rename this thread from Feedback Thread to "The Moderators's Advice Thread"
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blizzardboy
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posted August 17, 2010 10:14 PM |
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Quote:
You know the phrase "riding a dead horse"?
I'm totally going to start using the phrase "riding a dead horse" now. That's epic win.
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blizzardboy
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posted August 27, 2010 12:43 AM |
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I just want to thank Mytical for what a great and appropriate mod he is. I know that he never uses this forum as a desperate emotional escape to try to feel powerful. We all appreciate it and hope that you'll continue to moderate this forum for as long as possible because you do such a good job at it and aren't at all corrupt.
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JollyJoker
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posted October 08, 2010 08:22 AM |
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Just for clarification an to think about:
Elodin considers Atheism a religion.
Now correct me, if I'm wrong, but isn't he permanently and in each of his posting bashing and slandering, what he is considering a religion? Wouldn't Anti-Atheism, then, be technically the same as Anti-Semitism?
We know that the Supreme Court in the USA ruled, that TECHNICALLY atheism is to be treated like a religion. The Court ruled that, so that atheists have no disadvantages in comparison with members of the usual religions (not because atheism is in fact a religion).
Here on this board, would it be allowed to bash religions the same way than Elodin bashes Atheism and Atheists? Could we start banging on the Jews at every opportunity, pointing to them having killed Christ and any number of peoples, to be read in the Old Testament? Could we start bashing on current Jews of the public life, call them hatemongers or whatever, drag their history in and so on...?
Or could we start this with the Christian belief? Could we call them all insane, believing in something as bloody as the symbol of the old Roman instrument to put a convict to death? Come up in every post with stories about the Inquisition and the way the Church terrorized half the world and the other half later on, when it was discovered? How Christian priests have a disturbing tendency to find children all too likable and that sexually motivated mental disturbancies are quite the rule one way or another with Christianity?
And so on - I think, I don't need to paint a broader picture.
In any case - IF Elodin is withholding that Atheism is a religion, shouldn't he then treat atheism and especially ATHEISTS with the respect the membership of a religion commands?
What does the CoC say?
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Salamandre
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posted October 08, 2010 09:44 AM |
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Elodin is...Elodin. Unique. If you take it seriously then you should step back. Hidden and lot logged in, he looks-out constantly for any answer in his two bookmarked threads and jumps in ready to type same thing over and over at each reply. People got also quite aggressive towards him after a while, so it is not only one side. He is also full of paradoxes, crying loudly how tolerant, full of love and christian he is, and on the other side not having any problem to kill anyone who attempts to steal a few bucks from him. Ready to create a thread about how evil are the frenchies about burka and religion, and right after that a thread about prohibiting a mosque in America because he says so.
In french we have a word for that: pantin.
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JollyJoker
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posted October 08, 2010 11:21 AM |
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Rules are for everyone, though, whether Elodin is Elodin or someone else.
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Elodin
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posted October 08, 2010 11:42 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 11:44, 08 Oct 2010.
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Quote:
Elodin considers Atheism a religion.
Now correct me, if I'm wrong, but isn't he permanently and in each of his posting bashing and slandering, what he is considering a religion? Wouldn't Anti-Atheism, then, be technically the same as Anti-Semitism?
Christianity and other religions has been constantly bashed on these forums for years, and by you no less. I couuld quote tons of negative things you personaly have said about religion.
The religion of atheism is not beyond criticism. Critisism of atheism and its silly dogma is not being "anti-atheist", it is critisizing the ideas atheism is based on.
It is unfortunate that you seemingly have decided to run to moderators to shut down any criticism of atheism since you have been unable to defend the tenents of atheism.
Quote:
In any case - IF Elodin is withholding that Atheism is a religion, shouldn't he then treat atheism and especially ATHEISTS with the respect the membership of a religion commands?
What does the CoC say?
I have not violated the COC. I have not attacked community members though it is not at all unusual for me to be personally attacked and you have done so in the very thread in question.
If you can't stand for your ideas to be critisized perhaps you should not engage in discussions since the OSM discussions are quite frequently debates and in debates ideas are critisized. Or better still, you should become more tolerant of the right of others to express viewpoints that do not match your own.
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JollyJoker
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posted October 08, 2010 01:03 PM |
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See, Elodin, that post of yours is not telling the truth.
Christianity and other religions have NOT constantly bashed. It IS true that there have been posts pointing to dark spots in the history or general character of those.
But no one EXCEPT YOU is coming up with mass murdering atheists in every post as a point. No one else but you would even have the idea to start every post mentioning that no matter what else may be the case Judaism killed Christ and a ton of peoples, no one else but you would start and end their posts mentioning that Christianity brought about the Inquisition, no one else but you would mention the aggressive nature of fundamental muslimic religious ideas.
Of course all these things have a place to mention and discuss them, but this isn't Rome and you are not Cato, ending every statement with "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam". If you want to critisie "the silly dogma of atheism" that is fine, as fine as critisizing the silly dogmas of, say, Pentecostalism - BUT NOT IN EACH AND EVERY THREAD AND POST. That's the point - what will this place come down to if everyone does like you and starts critisizing "the silly dogmas of Pentecostalism" in each and every post? Or Judaism? Or WHATEVER?
So I just want clarification, whether that is ok.
I repeat: EITHER you treat Atheism as a religion and act accordingly and with respect to the members of that religion and their belief, because what you are actually doing in that case is, you are insulting permanently and constantly a religion and its members.
Or you stop claiming it's a religion.
Pretty easy, actually.
It will be interesting to see what the moderators say.
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1910
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posted October 08, 2010 03:26 PM |
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You know how Elodin is. You know that he trolls a lot of the time. Why don't you use your head and just ignore him? It's not that hard. By constantly responding to him in the way that you are, JJ, you just give him even more reason to keep going in the way he does and further annoying yourself. Why make it a moderator issue when you can put a stop to it right now? Don't like what he writes, simply ignore it. Problem solved.
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