|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
posted December 15, 2010 11:22 AM |
|
Edited by angelito at 11:23, 15 Dec 2010.
|
Quote:
Quote:
What is the (big) difference between:
"It is dumb to say I am a liar"
and
"You are dumb if you say I am a liar"
The first instance says that a statemtent is dumb. The second instance says a person is dumb. Saying an idea is dumb or good or wise or foolish is describing the idea and is not praising or attacking the person who put forward the idea. Saying a person is dumb is attacking the person.
I see it a bit different Elodin. From my point of view, the second phrase is a direct insult, while the first one is a hidden indirect insult.
So please stay away from using such phrases. It is much easier and less provoking to just say "I think you are wrong" or "That's not true", because not everyone who has a different opinion than yours is dumb, a liar or anything similar.
Keep the discussion on a grown up level please.
@ JJ
Calm down. No need to add fuel to the fire when the case is already examined. Wait and give the mods some time to react.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 15, 2010 11:28 AM |
|
|
Just what I wanted to hear.
To clarify: I'm not demanding action against Elodin. I just want clarification of the matter for future posts and occurencies.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted December 15, 2010 05:16 PM |
|
|
Quote:
@ JJ
Calm down. No need to add fuel to the fire when the case is already examined. Wait and give the mods some time to react.
To clarify, I called a statement silly and ridiculous. JJ, Corribus, and others said posts were nonsensical or laughable or went futhur than that.
So if I am condemned for calling an idea silly they should be condemned as well.
Shall we compare my "silly" and "rediculous" to language "the other side" has used in the thread?
Impossible, "Impossible. And nonsensical", wrong, "damn weird conception", an illusion, mirage, "this, by the way, is so glaringly obvious, that it is trivial to discuss it", "monosyllabic, fingers-in-your-ears answers"
"I'll echo JJ and say that Elodin's argument violates its own premise. That's so obvious that I can't believe we are even discussing it. In fact, his posts almost cause me to laugh."
"As usual, Elodin's post isn't worth replying to, loaded as it is with scientific falsehoods and logical fallacies."
God is a snowhole, God's actions are pretty clueless, morally spoken, it makes God a snow, "A streange God, who doesn't understand his creation", ect.
____________
Revelation
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted December 15, 2010 05:23 PM |
|
|
Elodin, Jesus didn't complain on people for making fun of his beliefs.
He told them they were wrong and they were all like "You suck!" So he chilled out and was like "They don't really know what they're talking about". And in the end, he turned out awesome, and they all turned out as fags.
Now just sit down and think about whether a Christian should give a crap about complaints about his posts on a message board.
I mean, a real Christian, not a troll or catholic or something.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted December 15, 2010 05:27 PM |
|
|
|
Frankly I could care less what people say about my posts. If someone thinks they are silly or illogical or dumb, I don't really give a crap. I'm certainly not going to stuff my dignity into a garbage can and whine about it when someone says what I write is stupid. I stand by what I write and people can think what they want. I don't see what all the fuss is about - I can always just ignore the posts I think are stupid, or the people who feel that way about mine. Which is exactly what I do.
|
|
Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
|
|
posted December 15, 2010 05:35 PM |
|
|
I love reading your posts .
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 15, 2010 08:57 PM |
|
|
Well, I'm not afraid to admit that I DO care.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't give a rat's ass what people think about me, my posts, my life style and so on - but I invest time in this, and my time is valuable for me.
What's more, if I post something, and people answer, they deserve that I take their posts seriously. They deserve that I try and understand what they are saying, which I do.
However, if I read midway of a post something like "It's silly to say...", I wasted my time, because that post is worth crap and you could have saved the time reading the first half and trying to understand.
Yes, I care about what I write, and if I take posts seriously and answer them seriously and politely I can expect the same.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted December 15, 2010 10:03 PM |
|
|
Quote:
However, if I read midway of a post something like "It's silly to say...", I wasted my time, because that post is worth crap and you could have saved the time reading the first half and trying to understand.
Yes, I care about what I write, and if I take posts seriously and answer them seriously and politely I can expect the same.
And yet you used phrases like "Impossible. And nonsensical." In the very thread where you complain about me saying "it is silly to say."
So explain why it is ok for you to call someone's statement impossible and nonsensical and yet it is not ok to call a statment of yours silly or ridiculous. That smacks of double standards.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 15, 2010 10:44 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Yes, I care about what I write, and if I take posts seriously and answer them seriously and politely I can expect the same.
And yet you used phrases like "Impossible. And nonsensical." In the very thread where you complain about me saying "it is silly to say."
So explain why it is ok for you to call someone's statement impossible and nonsensical and yet it is not ok to call a statment of yours silly or ridiculous. That smacks of double standards.
From YOU i could expect politeness no matter what because that comment wasn't directed to you.
But let's review that comment:
Quote:
Quote:
You happen to know what I'll decide
Impossible. And nonsensical.
I think, everyone will agree that it is indeed impossible that I happen to know what Mvass will decide, so what?
And nonsensical, that's a question of phrasing: You happen to know what I'll decide; I mean, that's funny. You HAPPEN to be allknowing... Still - the point of all the posts before that was to show that something like that is impossible to happen, or, in other words, it's somewhat like he said, suppose you happen to cool down to -300 degrees Celsius.
And again I'm wasting time with this answer, I realize.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 16, 2010 03:46 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I think, everyone will agree that it is indeed impossible that I happen to know what Mvass will decide, so what?
Do you understand the point of thought experiments?
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted December 16, 2010 04:18 AM |
|
|
@JJ
So if you think an idea is "nonsensical" it is ok for you to say so. But if I think an idea is silly or ridiculous it is not ok for me to say so? Sounds like double standards to me.
For context, my "offending posts" were:
Quote:
JJ
Quote:
An "option" can be an option only if there is a higher than 0 probability of it happening.
Elodin:
Quote:
How utterly rediculous. There is zero chance that I will rape a baby today or any day. There is zero chance that I will climb to the top of the nearest tall building and jump off. There is zero chance that I will take my shotgun out and bow my head off.
It is illogical to say that I don't have the free will to do those things simply because I would never do them.
I found your claim to be ridiculous and said said why I found the statement to be ridiculous.
My other "offending statement" was:
Quote:
It is very silly to think that that the God who exists independently of the apace-time continuim (he created it) is subject to it like you are. Such a concept of God would be too human-like, too frail and too limited to be the God who created all things out of nothing.
I hardly think either of my "very silly" or "utterly rediculous" statements violated the COC and certainly don't go as far as things I quoted the "other side" saying in the thread.
@Moderators:
So are you saying that NO ONE can call any idea silly, ridiculous, nonsensical, or any other "negative" adjective other than "wrong?" Is that correct? Please clarify your ruling if that is not the case so everyone will know exactly what you are going to enforce.
So if someone says "All yellow cars are made of cheese" no one can reply, "Saying all yellow cars are made of cheese is silly" or they are in violation of the COC. Is that correct?
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 16, 2010 08:05 AM |
|
|
@ Mvass
Quote:
Quote:
I think, everyone will agree that it is indeed impossible that I happen to know what Mvass will decide, so what?
Do you understand the point of thought experiments?
I do. However, in this case the assumption of the experiment is what the discussion was all about.
It's like I'm saying, not even god can divide by zero - that's why the term 16/0 can't have a solution. Then you say, suppose you happen to devide by zero.
If you followed the discussion, you will have seen that I specifically asked at one point, HOW it would be possible for God to know the future and what that would imply.
So the thought experiment, let's assume you know what I'll decide, how does that knowledge influences me, gives wide berth to the question of how I have aquired said "knowledge", even though that question is effectively what this is all about, not whether there is a direct causal connection between the knowledge as such and your decision (which is, by the way, the same thing that Elodin is refusing to acknowledge, when he comes with his "knowledge is not causation").
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 16, 2010 08:58 AM |
|
|
The difference is, it's much easier to imagine something that knows the future (it's just like remembering the past, but it's the future) than dividing by zero, which we humans (who invented mathematics) have defined as an operation that cannot be done.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted December 16, 2010 11:46 AM |
|
|
Get a room guys The sexual tension is getting too much for us to handle.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted December 16, 2010 03:25 PM |
|
Edited by angelito at 15:26, 16 Dec 2010.
|
Quote:
So if someone says "All yellow cars are made of cheese" no one can reply, "Saying all yellow cars are made of cheese is silly" or they are in violation of the COC. Is that correct?
And why not just say: "This is wrong, because normally yellow cards are made of plastic!"?
Don't make everything so complicated Elodin. Use clear and understandable words when you want to express something. Don't always try to find a way around the rules....
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted December 16, 2010 06:11 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
So if someone says "All yellow cars are made of cheese" no one can reply, "Saying all yellow cars are made of cheese is silly" or they are in violation of the COC. Is that correct?
And why not just say: "This is wrong, because normally yellow cards are made of plastic!"?
Don't make everything so complicated Elodin. Use clear and understandable words when you want to express something. Don't always try to find a way around the rules....
It is false to say I try to get around the rules. And it is certainly false if you mean to imply that no one else uses negative adjectives or phrases to describe the ideas of others.
I'm not trying to get around any rules. I just want to know what you are going to interpret the COC as and if that interpretation only applies to my posts or also to the posts of people who express ideas you agree with. If you bother reading the forums you will see Corribus, JJ, and lots of folks critisize ideas with "negative adjetives." Please STOP PAINTING ME AS THE OGRE. If you are going to call out me for saying an idea is sillyl then call out Corribus, JJ, and the others who said negative things about ideas.
I already quoted things JJ, Corribus and others said in the thread and so far your only critisim has been of me for saying an idea was silly or ridiculous when the other side of the debate said things that mean silly and worse things.
Now, I really would like to know if when JJ or Corribus for example critisize ideas with negative phrases or words are they going to be penalized or is it just me who is not allowed to critisize ideas? Oh, Corribus often calls me out by name and says something negative about me or my posts and never, not one time have I ever seen you call him out on it.
Please moderate FAIRLY and MAKE IT CLEAR EXACTLYLY what you are goinhg to penalize.
Could you please just answer the question. Are "negative" adjectives and phrases allowed to describe statements or not?
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted December 16, 2010 07:14 PM |
|
|
I think that moderators could use the CoC as they want, and interpret it as some do with "other things". If they are on Coribus and JJ side, it is their personal choice and it might be even right. After all, we are not in a court law and everything is not black or white. If someone feels persecuted, it is his right of free will to visit other forums.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted December 16, 2010 09:39 PM |
|
|
Quote:
It is false to say I try to get around the rules.
See? This is exactly what I am talking about. Why don't you just write: "I do not try to get around the rules!" Express YOUR action/meaning, do NOT always validate the statements of OTHERS in your texts.
I think I have made my point pretty clear right now. I will not continue this discussion about that matter.
These last posts of mine count as a warning (for ALL). Any further similar behaviour will be penalized.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 16, 2010 09:40 PM |
|
|
I can see it before me. Congress session. The president makes his speech to propagate, umm, health insurance. Congress member Elodin takes the floor and starts his speech with, "Mr. President, fellow delegates, it is very silly to say that the health insurance bill will make our people healthier, like President Obama just did..."
I mean, I suppose it would be great to watch on TV! But I don't think, the reaction would be, "Hey don't blame me for my speech writer!"
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted December 16, 2010 10:13 PM |
|
|
You have no idea what I would say. I would actually be much harsher and address the Marxist bill without beating around the bush or coddling the Marxists. Real world debates involve criticism of your opponent's ideas.
I think that you do not have the right to put words in my mouth and view your post as provocation.
|
|
|
|
This Popular Thread is pages long: 
