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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted December 20, 2010 09:04 AM |
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There seems to be a bit of confusion here. I applied the CoC to the post, that was not the 'mistake' I was meaning. The fact that I can miss penalty worthy posts is the mistake I am referring to. I disagree in the "A good post/excellent poster/etc outweighs the penalty" argument.
I've proven that I always listen to people, even critics. In fact, I'd say I almost always reply to people and at least attempt to make my stance known. As for 'having to put up with it'..not sure what to tell you. I disagree with your argument..so I should reverse my decision 'because you say so' even though I disagree with you?
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Message received.
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1910
Known Hero
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posted December 20, 2010 09:06 AM |
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You wrote on his post that it was an excellent post. One which, in my opinion, would deserve a bonus. However, since it has some insults in it that are against the CoC, then it is also worthy of a penalty. Now, what do you do with a situation like that? Give it a bonus because it's a great post or a penalty for the insults that are in it? You seem to be missing my point in that as it deserves both, that it should, in basically every case, be neutral. Do you not agree?
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted December 20, 2010 09:18 AM |
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You are correct, and not so much correct. Confused? Let me explain.
Had the post been written within the guidelines of the CoC, it would indeed be worthy of a bonus. It wasn't however. Any quality was outweighed by the violation of the CoC.
It is not a case of one balancing the other. It is a case that the CoC violation outweighs any quality. Again, that is my stance on the matter. Others may disagree, that is their right. It's not that you don't have some valid points, but that I disagree with the fact that penalty + bonus = neutral.
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Message received.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 20, 2010 09:19 AM |
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One of two things needs to happen. Either the mods need to say, "We can't do anything about this any more", take a step back, and leave the discussions to the law of the jungle (whatever that may be in this case), or they need to take a more active role and not let people like Elodin, Skrezwhatever, and occasionally JJ (and I'm guilty of it too from time to time) drag down the level of discourse to the level that they've have. Whenever people start calling something "looney tooney", "ridiculous", "nonsense", etc, and treating it as a rebuttal, something needs to happen.
Corribus is right. If that's penalty-worthy, penalise me too.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted December 20, 2010 09:29 AM |
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Quote:
<snip> Whenever people start calling something "looney tooney", "ridiculous", "nonsense", etc, and treating it as a rebuttal, something needs to happen.
Couldn't agree more. It has to happen EQUALLY, however. No special treatment. As I said, I miss posts..I am human. If you find a post that you think deserves the penalty (or bonus) by all means..HCM me. I'll look into it.
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Message received.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 20, 2010 09:33 AM |
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I agree completely with Mytical's judgement - many here, me among them and even in the forefront, have demanded a heavier hand from the moderators and to address provocations already. This has been done, and I think it is good that way. Also, it's not the first time, a an excellent post got penalized because of a slip of tongue, even when it was "the truth".
What is wrong for Elodin can't be right for Corribus or me. What this board needs is a general calming-down, and if that's possible only with a load of -qps, so be it. It's not like it hasn't been announced.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted December 20, 2010 10:47 AM |
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Quote:
Why even let those things bother you? It's a forum for god sake. If you take this so personally then you really need to go out a bit more and live life a bit. This is just ridiculous, Elodin. Seriously...
Have you been reading the feedback thread in the past couple of weeks?
It is not a question of personal attacks bothering me. It is a question of equal treatment for all. Angelito had told me that me calling a statement silly was a violation of the COC so certainly the personal comments against me were violations of the COC.
Rather than respond by making personal comments about the posters who attacked me I asked for moderators to delete the offending comments. What is wrong with that? No matter what If I had held up a mirror I would have been condemned.
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1910
Known Hero
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posted December 20, 2010 11:07 AM |
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I've been reading. Nearly every one of your posts you claim somebody attacks you and start crying about it.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted December 20, 2010 11:15 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 11:17, 20 Dec 2010.
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*facepalm* You know, despite what people seem to think..feedback is for constructive criticism..not a place to come out swinging at each other. It's not peoples personal soapboxes or anything similar.
Edit: Oh yeah, and people forget it is also a place to say GOOD things about other posters and those peoples posts also!
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Message received.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted December 20, 2010 11:18 AM |
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Edited by angelito at 20:34, 20 Dec 2010.
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Even if you do not realize it William, I visit HC every day. I may not post as much as I used to do, but I am present and I will take action.
I think the problem is, we mods discuss our action too long and too deep. It is better to just act like the CoC describes and keep quiet.
I have made my point clear enough, even though Elodin again turns it around so it fits better for him. Maybe he should re-read my original post again, so he get the idea.
I won't write much if Elodin or any other poster will cross this line again. I will silence and/or penalize without any comment.
And whining all the time how bad yourself is treated by other members doesn't help, it even makes things worse. Send a HCM with the quote you are not fine with, and we will take a look.
The feedback thread here is not for long discussions or for chit chat. Bring up your point, wait for Mod action.
Thanks for reading.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 20, 2010 12:24 PM |
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Has anyone noticed a few mods became very unfriendly to everybody since Elomoan joined?
We want our gentle mods back! 
Who sign the petition?
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Era II mods and utilities
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted December 20, 2010 01:32 PM |
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Corribus does not deserve such treatment. He doesn't.
It's no secret that I'm a fanboy of his (and there are plenty of others.Search your feelings deep down inside you know you're on Team-Corribus too.) but even if I look above my fanboyism the penalty is still undeserved.
Now Mytical you're a fanboy/girl too as I understand. Great that should make this all the easier to clarify. Now let's clear one thing up when I say "Corribus doesn't deserve such treatment" I also mean "That post doesn't deserve such treatment".
So let's talk about the post... your whole case for giving it a penalty is that it's an "insult" to Skertzy or whatever his name is. Well it's harsh sure but it's not blatantly insulting.
This isn't even about Corribus being more eloquent and his jabs thus being funnier and infinitely wittier. They're different because they follow a different intention. Look at this. Please, indulge me.
Quote:
Not well-respected?! Well certainly you do not respect me, but I am VERY RESPECTED by people who know me. OHHH! You mean the quality count on HC (a forum!) haha, OK, feel free to tower over me and feel your power of respect because you have more red stars than I do How pathetic! Do you have some personal complexes outside of the online world? You actually amuse me more than insult. I wouldn't be surprised if a moderator took one of your little stars away for those insults and hatred towards me.
Quote:
SkrentyzMienty is the equal of any pulpit-climbing, bible-thumping, robe-and-ring-bedecked televangelist. He doesn’t want to have a conversation and he doesn’t want to understand the other side. It’s ok for him to have come to a conclusion of what he thinks this world is about, but if he’s not willing to listen to other peoples’ conclusions, why does he bother talking to other people in the first place?
See the difference? You read the first sentence of Corribus post and ... go "oh an "insult" CoC break, better get that fixed" but if you'd actually see the rest you could see that he's not insulting him but he's giving him advice. Like I said it's harsh but well the truth isn't pleasant especially not for SOME POSTERS (am I doing the censoring right?). But just because it's harsh doesn't make it an insult. Like Salamander said you must be allowed to be able to call a cat a cat. Everything Corribus (more importantly THE POST) says is
a) true
b) put into context
c) witty
d) sexy (you know it)
e) reasonable
f) polite
He's not talking down on him despite being vastly superior to him. Unlike SOME POSTERS who's arguments are infiror but their demeanor is that of a person batheing in their felt-superiority. The post doens't deserve a penalty because he adresses something that is a real issue in the osm and it cuts right to the heart of the problem. And the manner in which he does so is perfectly adequat. It's not that you should meassure things Corribus and SOME POSTERS post differently because of who they are but because of what they say and how they say it. And it should be "self evident" (as SOMEONEELSE put it rather cynically) the post his vastly different from the insulting posts of SOME POSTERS.
SOME PEOPLE talk about wanting to enforce order in the OSM but apparently it has come down to Quote:
I won't write much if Elodin SOME POSTER(S) or any other poster will cross this line again. I will silence and/or penalize without any comment.
and "oh...well...I don't know...looks bad...I have responsability...better do something right?....guess I'll give a penalty since I can't be bothered to moderate the situation right now...I mean hey I'm just human...can't be in every thread and moderate things, right?...it's not like I haven't tried they just won't listen...I'm innocent...yeah that's it they won't listen so now it's totally fine to dish out penalties...not like I didn't try, right? Right?" (that's just my impression of mystery poster X who shall apparently not be named for the sake of not being named? lol?). That's not moderating that's frustration/surrender. But I've been saying that for dear god SOME DEITY knows how long.
But Mytical (don't worry I won't say anything about you so it's ok to say your name right?) you said this is also to say good thing about cool posters and not just for critizing bad decisions right? Well then allow me...
Corribus really is the osm biggest asset (Yeah take that SOME POSTERS) and more importantly a awesome member HC is lucky to have. Sesh forget that I'm a fanboy for a second and look at the osm. He's a beacon. More times than I can remember I've left a thread because it degenerated to the usual state of affairs in the osm only to find Corribus pulling it up again and giving it back some of the dignity it deserves so much. And thusly keeps the scarce few great people who have the ability to discuss things in a thread. Sure their arguments may not be too long since SOME POSTERS are always nearby to butcher anything interesting and valueable said so far. But he keeps it alive and gives people a chance to improve, broaden their views of things and share their own great thoughts.
Why he even bothers is beyond me. I'm an idealist but I've long since given up on the osm whether Corribus does it out of some (by now probably misplaced) nostalgia for this place, out of altruism, because he believes that he can actually still save this place or because he enjoys the fact that he can still make beautiful flowers grow in a nuclear wasteland is beyond me. But one thing I do know is that I'm immensly grateful for his pressence. Not just in the osm but on HC in general. No it's not fair to treat him like this and I fear the day when Corribus will finally be fed up with this (lol and I wouldn't blame him). That penalty is...let's say undeserved for the lack of the ability to post something more appropriate.
Oh and Adrius penalty...really? Damn straight penalize that guy for trying to calm people down and not letting people talk down on him for no reason. Unacceptable behaviour.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted December 20, 2010 01:42 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 14:11, 20 Dec 2010.
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And Salamdre is great too. I don't know whether it's inniate ability to make sense out of stuff like
"!?BA0&v998=70/v999=62/v1000=0/1000; **battle at 70/62/0
!!IF:V29/1; **set flag 29 to true
!?BF&29; only that battle will have custom obstacles
[...]
!?BA1&v998=70/v999=62/v1000=0/1000; after that battle
!!IF:V29/0: reset flag"
but for some reason he always has a nice calming and reasonable touch to his posts. Sums up situation pretty nicely and really this may sound profane but his posts are usually short. It's just a breath of fresh air to not have a wall of text assault you and still have something interesting, refreshing and accuarate to read .
So gogooogo Corribus and Salamandre. You're like the Batman and Robin of the osm! Please save Gotham! From the Joker (pun not intended but by cosmic justice odly fitting) and his Minions.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted December 20, 2010 02:27 PM |
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Quote:
Has anyone noticed a few mods became very unfriendly to everybody since Elomoan joined?
We want our gentle mods back!
Who sign the petition?
Your distortion of my name is provocation. And your blame of me for the state of the OSM is unwarrented.
And certainly you will say I am moaning about you distorting my name. But there is little doubt that if I distorted yours I would be penalized.
No, I do not moan. All I have ever asked is for an equal playing field. For ALL members to be held to the exact same standard. And if you may have noticed, I never ask for anyone to be penalized. I also only began to point out other's posts when people wanted me penalized for saying a statement was silly. Did you accuse any of them of moaning? Nope.
Before I joined the anti-theists were constantly calling theists delusional, and other less than flattering things. I don't mind going back and pulling up quotes if you dispute the claim. I am not the reason that unfriendly language is used in the OSM.
When I first became began participating in the OSM it was to counter the false statments the anti-theists constantlly made about religion in general, Christianity in particular, and the Bible. At first, I merely proved them wrong by quoting what the Bible actually says, refering to historical works, ect, and asked for a more civil tone. When that did not work I asked the moderators to enforce the COC. When it became apparent they were not interested in enforcing the COC I began to "use a mirror" and reflected the same language the "other side" was using. That is when "the other side" began to "moan" as you put it, and demand for me to be banned/penalized/crucified. Certain members want to be able to speak very strongly about other members and about ideas they don't like but don't want their ideas to be criticisized.
Anyways, I try to abide by whatevr current interpretaion of the COC the moderators are following.
Agan, I don't see giving feedback in the feedback thread as "moaning" and giving feedback is the only way to bring about changes and try to have equality for all members to present their viewpoints and opposition to the viewpoints of others with equity.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 20, 2010 02:36 PM |
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I can't believe people who call themselves "adult" are so easy manipulated and affected by comments in a gaming forum. Why you need so strongly to always have the last word?
Nobody cares once the browser is closed. Make yourself useful to something, there is a lot of work to do in H3-5 forums.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted December 20, 2010 02:37 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 14:40, 20 Dec 2010.
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SOME POSTERS don't seem to understand that Salamandre was in fact talking about Elomoan, not you Elodin. And you'll see that his statement is correct if you look at the day he joined and the current state of affairs.
So you feeling adressed perhaps just indicates that you do feel some connection to what he has said?
And the Theist discussion were not dictated by atheists insulting anyone it was a good time of exchanged ideas and oppinions. Sure we had some gurkins going a bit funky but it was still civil and nothing similar to this.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted December 20, 2010 02:52 PM |
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Quote:
So gogooogo Corribus and Salamandre. You're like the Batman and Robin of the osm! Please save Gotham! From the Joker (pun not intended but by cosmic justice odly fitting) and his Minions.
smooth ;p
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted December 20, 2010 03:34 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 15:46, 20 Dec 2010.
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I don't normally post here, but Mother of God, did somebody actually penalise Corribus four months from April?
Far be it from me to jump in out of the blue, but there is a little something in that post he made which was seemingly totally overlooked:
Quote:
In any case, none of that is meant to be an insult.
I don't understand what happened. I am a pretty impartial observer. I've seen others ripping each other to shreds with veiled insults ten times a day around here, warning after warning has been doled out and systematically ignored. There is no evidence, oral or otherwise, of good faith - just a whole load of pseudo-lawyering and pettifogging without substance, point, reason or even decent spelling. You'll find a few examples on this very page (c.f. Elomoan).
Corribus gives a reasonable lecture with a disclaimer attached and is demerited for the trouble, no "first offence" warning to speak of. Even with that aside, the guy's posts are pretty much the paragons of the OSM - i.e. worth reading. It is counter-productive to penalise a "fantastic post" from a constantly-constructive member just to make a (flawed) point about equality.
I realise it's an incredibly frustrating forum to look after - hell, it can be frustrating to look at sometimes - but surely it hasn't gotten bad enough yet that sabotage from the inside is required to control the place? 
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted December 20, 2010 04:10 PM |
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Quote:
and "oh...well...I don't know...looks bad...I have responsability...better do something right?....guess I'll give a penalty since I can't be bothered to moderate the situation right now...I mean hey I'm just human...can't be in every thread and moderate things, right?...it's not like I haven't tried they just won't listen...I'm innocent...yeah that's it they won't listen so now it's totally fine to dish out penalties...not like I didn't try, right? Right?" (that's just my impression of mystery poster X who shall apparently not be named for the sake of not being named? lol?). That's not moderating that's frustration/surrender. But I've been saying that for dear god SOME DEITY knows how long.
I can't tell you how boring you became here by the time Azagal. Since a very long time now you do not contribute a tiny bit to this forum, but every time when there is some "quarrel", we can lean back and wait a few minutes and look who is back? Azagal and his "smart" comments.
It is like someone who just watches others building a house from the very bottom to the top, and every time when one of the workers does something wrong, he has to step in aswell and blame the worker how himself would have built the house much better. Lame....
Take part in building the house and tell us your story, or just keep your words by yourself.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted December 20, 2010 04:22 PM |
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The penalty for Corribus is currently discussed in the squad.
We will tell you when a final decision is made.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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