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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted December 20, 2010 04:43 PM |
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said the lurker mod
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none of my business.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted December 20, 2010 04:53 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 16:54, 20 Dec 2010.
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Quote:
Corribus gives a reasonable lecture with a disclaimer attached and is demerited for the trouble, no "first offence" warning to speak of. Even with that aside, the guy's posts are pretty much the paragons of the OSM - i.e. worth reading. It is counter-productive to penalise a "fantastic post" from a constantly-constructive member just to make a (flawed) point about equality.
I realise it's an incredibly frustrating forum to look after - hell, it can be frustrating to look at sometimes - but surely it hasn't gotten bad enough yet that sabotage from the inside is required to control the place?
That was not a "first offense" for Corrubus. He insults me quite frequently. He was not penalized for the statements he made about me, Mytical merely edited the offending portions out as I asked.
He did quite a bit of insulting in the post in question.
Either the COC applies to everyone equally or or it is merely a tool to discriminate against those whose viewpoints the moderators don't agree with. On page 89 Angelito said:
Quote:
These last posts of mine count as a warning (for ALL). Any further similar behaviour will be penalized.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted December 20, 2010 04:59 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 17:43, 20 Dec 2010.
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Heehe angelito I'd knew you'd say something like that ^^.
It's not like you don't have a point I really only come in here to be all righteous about something I personally believe to be unfair. That really must be annoying and I also don't like the kind of person you describe angelito. But it's not like I don't read up on the things I critizie before I post about them.
So while I may not be present in the osm at all postwise if I see something I find inparticularily disturbing (and you have to admit something like penalizeing Corribus is pretty disturbing. Just look you got Cepheus to post here!) I find it to be ok to voice my concerns in here as I don't do so without good reason and I don't have anywhere else to voice them, do I?
Did I understand your methaphor correctly you really mean that only people who've posted in a discussion can discuss an issue that resulted from it? Are you saying that I would understand the topic better if I had at some point posted something in there then that I would have if I simply read it? Because I don't believe that. I think that if I read the topic I am entiteld to post about the issue it produced. I mean I really don't do it often but when I do I guess I'm not the most pleasant person the deal with. Was that your point?
Unlike your portrayal of me I don't complain for complainings sake I complain/critizise because I feel someone has been wronged.
You may not like me but I had hoped that you'd atleast see that I'm not critizing people because I enjoy being annoying. Or is it my tone that prevents you from taking me seriously? Funny how you quoted the by far meanest (if it's even that) part of my post. Sure it's the one that fits your description of me the most but I do believe I'm making a few other points as well that are both phrased differently and are a lot more serious.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted December 20, 2010 05:25 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 17:48, 20 Dec 2010.
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The posts in my support are much appreciated, in part because they make it completely unnecessary to defend myself. I've always said I stand by my posts and that will never change. Nevertheless, if any of you whom I consider my friends feel that my post has made HC a worse place to come and play, I apologize. My goal here is never to antagonize - it is to entertain and to educate, myself first, and the rest of you second.
As for the penalty - in the end I'm fairly indifferent to red stars (the plus or the minus variety). Awarded as they are at the discretion of a small group of people who don't necessarily represent the values of the community-at-large, I don't place much real value on them.
Although they are nice and shiny... shiny....... shinnnnnnyyyyyy....
Ahem. Where was I?
Oh, right.
Despite that, I'll admit to being a little piqued at not knowing what I am being penalized for. Mytical's editorial comments suggest that the reason is self evident. Well it's not, and the fact that the penalization was preceded by a lauding of the post as "overall fantastic" doesn't help. It reminds me of an english prof back at college who would tell you how great your paper was and then slap a C+ on it.
Was I penalized for insulting Elodin? That I would find distressing, because had I known in advance that I'd receive a penalty for calling Elodin's posts intemperate or drivel, I would have gone all out and written what I really think of him, using language far less oblique. Bang for your buck (or rhymes-with-buck) and all that.
Was I penalized for insulting SkrentyzMienty? If so, then Mytical completely missed the mark of what I was trying to accomplish, just as SkrentyzMienty did. Certainly, my post was framed as a rebuke, but a rebuke is not an insult, and those who cannot distinguish one type of negative tone from another need to take the time to read more slowly or, at least, ask for clarification. Recognizing the potential for ambiguity, in fact, I outright wrote that I wasn't trying to insult SkrentyMienty. Given my length of time as a poster here, and my ample quantity of red stars (perhaps they're good for something after all?), I would think it evident that I don't set out to insult anyone. Indeed, I've learned over the years that casting insults generally isn't worth the effort. That's not to say I don't let them slip out occasionally, in an off-handed way, but I am not the type of person who would spend an hour writing a post for the mere purpose of putting someone down. I ignore people or posts I don't like. Far easier, far cleaner.
I offered SkrentyzMienty my rebuke because he's young and possibly impressionable, possibly able to turn himself into a quality poster here at HC - or a quality contributor to philosophical discussions on the world-stage. One might recall that I treated mvassilev in much the same way back when he was a callow sixteen year old, and I'm sure he would be the first to admit he was a little punk when he started posting at HC. But I'm happy he grew into something much better - and I'm sure he wishes he could go back and slap his younger self around a little bit, just as I sure wish I could do the same to my 16-year-old self.
In any case, aside from the fact that the reason I was penalized is completely unclear, what I am most indignant about is that my post was edited and my meaning was not faithfully preserved (nor was the integrity of my grammar maintained). But I have a feeling that my annoyance is going to be small potatoes in the long-run, because Mytical's ham-handed moderation of my post is probably going to come back to haunt him. After all, he has inadvertently given everyone here the means to insult Elodin SOME POSTERS as they please, by way of convenient euphemism.
EDIT: Love the tagline, Azagal, but who is "Barrack" Obama?
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted December 20, 2010 05:40 PM |
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He's Obamas slightly less well known but equally awesome little brother. But he told me that his big brother has the same opinion but as president he can't openly express that he thinks you'd be much better suited for the job. I'm sure you understand given the situation he's in.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted December 20, 2010 05:44 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 17:44, 20 Dec 2010.
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Completely understand - I know how busy the two Obama brothers are and I appreciate their support. Make sure you let them know that the next time you're out on the links with them.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted December 20, 2010 05:49 PM |
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Of course I will. Anyways I'll hit the road for now I've got to go yet-skiing with the Dalai Lama. And if you think the Obamas were angry just wait till he hears about this...
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 20, 2010 07:14 PM |
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Quote:
One might recall that I treated mvassilev in much the same way back when he was a callow sixteen year old, and I'm sure he would be the first to admit he was a little punk when he started posting at HC.
Haha, yes.  I remember that. I definitely wouldn't post the things I posted then. It took more than your rebuke to teach me, though - arguing with Bak, Asheera, and TheDeath helped a lot more (notice how these the last of these two were also not too popular with the mods). My rebuke was well-deserved, though, as was the one to Skrezwhatever.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted December 20, 2010 07:33 PM |
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Noticed I have a penalty
Yay. Now I'm all streetwise and ****, HC Convict respect and stuff.
*cough cough*
Yeah I got mad. Really don't think I deserved a penalty though. Never even received a warning of any kind on this site. I considered myself calm in that thread, apart from my first post.
I'm guessing that the main reason the penalty was handed out to me was because I fed an angry person? Making him dish out even more insults by giving him attention?
I do like it when people tell me what I'm doing wrong, makes it much more easier to improve ya know.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 20, 2010 08:24 PM |
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Yo guyz, you all fell to a troll. Shame on you!
I had a lot of good laughs though. 
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted December 20, 2010 08:38 PM |
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Quote:
Either the COC applies to everyone equally or or it is merely a tool to discriminate against those whose viewpoints the moderators don't agree with. On page 89 Angelito said:
Quote:
These last posts of mine count as a warning (for ALL). Any further similar behaviour will be penalized.
Correct. But no one acted similar like you do/did as of yet, therefore no penalty applied
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted December 20, 2010 08:46 PM |
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Quote:
You may not like me but I had hoped that you'd atleast see that I'm not critizing people because I enjoy being annoying. Or is it my tone that prevents you from taking me seriously? Funny how you quoted the by far meanest (if it's even that) part of my post. Sure it's the one that fits your description of me the most but I do believe I'm making a few other points as well that are both phrased differently and are a lot more serious.
This is not about me liking you Azagal. I would only judge people when I have met them in real life, so I get a picture who hides behind the screen where he/she thinks it is save to write such things without getting slapped..
It is about a different thing. Maybe my metapher wasn't that clear, but it is always a bit more difficult to express things in foreign than in native language.
What I wanted to say is, in my opinion, only participants (contribution!) of the OSM should use the Feedback thread for complaining. Not being part of something always makes it much easier to criticize. Like spectators criticizing the coach of a football team.. It's hardly fair what those people shout from their seats towards the crew...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted December 20, 2010 08:55 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Either the COC applies to everyone equally or or it is merely a tool to discriminate against those whose viewpoints the moderators don't agree with. On page 89 Angelito said:
Quote:
These last posts of mine count as a warning (for ALL). Any further similar behaviour will be penalized.
Correct. But no one acted similar like you do/did as of yet, therefore no penalty applied
I called one statement silly and another ridiculous. Corribus, JJ, and others have said far, far worse.
For context, my "offending posts" were:
Quote:
JJ
Quote:
An "option" can be an option only if there is a higher than 0 probability of it happening.
Elodin:
Quote:
How utterly rediculous. There is zero chance that I will rape a baby today or any day. There is zero chance that I will climb to the top of the nearest tall building and jump off. There is zero chance that I will take my shotgun out and bow my head off.
It is illogical to say that I don't have the free will to do those things simply because I would never do them.
I found JJ's claim to be ridiculous and said said why I found the statement to be ridiculous yet you said calling his statment ridiculous is an insult.
My other "offending statement" was:
Quote:
It is very silly to think that that the God who exists independently of the apace-time continuim (he created it) is subject to it like you are. Such a concept of God would be too human-like, too frail and too limited to be the God who created all things out of nothing.
I hardly think either of my "very silly" or "utterly rediculous" statements violated the COC and certainly don't go as far as things I quoted the "other side" saying in the thread.
You did not in fact stick to your promise to penalize everyone who said negative stuff about the ideas of others. Not that I'm calling for any penalties. But I can rest assured if I had said anything like what Corribus or others said about me I would have been penalized. Or if I had so much as called another idea silly.
Unfair moderation and favoritism has always been my complaint in the OSM.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 20, 2010 09:29 PM |
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Elodin, how come you generalize "It is very silly or utterly ridiculous to say" with "saying negative stuff abouit the ideas of others"?
Can you elaborate on that?
Generally, I'd like to express my thanks to the moderators for putting a lot of effort into moderation.
I appreciate that.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted December 20, 2010 10:40 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 23:00, 20 Dec 2010.
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Quote:
Elodin, how come you generalize "It is very silly or utterly ridiculous to say" with "saying negative stuff abouit the ideas of others"?
Can you elaborate on that?
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I'm not sure exactly what you mean.
What I mean is others refer to the statements of their opponents with "negative" adjectives or negative descriptive phrases also. You used "nonsensical" and other things. Why, on page 1 of the "Satanic questions" thread Xerox said "I think that is ridiculous" about Shares post yet no moderator chastised him for it even though I was chastised for using the word ridiculous to describe a statement of yours.
I'm not going to bother going through the whole thread listing other examples.
Note that I don't agree with Angelito's interpretation of the COC that calling someone's idea nonsensical, silly, ridiculous, a mirage, an illusion, ect is insulting the person. Such phrases clearly are describing the idea ther person put forward, not the person presenting the idea. But if he is going to forbid one person to call another person's ideas ridiculous then he should forbid everyone to do the same.
And if moderation is to be consistant both moderators have to be enforcing the same things.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted December 21, 2010 12:13 AM |
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I'd like to take this time to commend Mytical on being an outstanding mod.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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1910
Known Hero
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posted December 21, 2010 12:22 AM |
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Edited by 1910 at 00:25, 21 Dec 2010.
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Quote:
He insults me quite frequently.
And you insult people who don't believe in religion as well as insulting people when you call everything other people believe in as loony or whatever else you say. What the hell is the difference? Before being so quick to say that others are insulting, look at yourself first.
And Angelito, this is a forum. If people wish to discuss what's WRONG with it, then by all means they have the right to say whatever is on their mind. Azagal made some fair points. While he may not post here that doesn't mean he doesn't read this place and I assume he does. If you see something wrong then by all means everybody has the right to discuss about it. Just my opinion.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted December 21, 2010 12:40 AM |
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Quote:
I'd like to take this time to commend Mytical on being an outstanding mod.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted December 21, 2010 01:35 AM |
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Quote:
I'd like to take this time to commend Mytical on being an outstanding mod.
How do you figure?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 21, 2010 07:48 AM |
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He tends to make that comment at random times lately.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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