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| Thread: Heroes V - Initial Screenshot Analysis |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Ellderon
Adventuring Hero
Lightbringer
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posted April 08, 2005 01:40 PM |
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Quote:
maybe a weaponsmith would, if u look closely, the angels hand fits nicely in the hilt. if the angels hands were bigger i think you'd be right but doesnt look that bad 2 me
If you had more knowledge of cold weaponry and the fighting techniques of hte middle ages, you wouldn't say something like that.
The ring is rather clumsy, as it makes it difficult to grab the sword with both hands during the heat of battle (and half-swordibng would be very had). Allso fliping the sword in your hand would be impossible, as the ring would collide with your arm.
You know, there is such a thing as gret design wihtout utterly ruining the functionality of a weapon..
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elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 08, 2005 01:58 PM |
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true true, but u guys are going over the top with this
heres an idea lets find the things wrong with the large feather on the angel, pretty big, could desroy the game.
discuss
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 08, 2005 02:34 PM |
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Quote:
true true, but u guys are going over the top with this
heres an idea lets find the things wrong with the large feather on the angel, pretty big, could desroy the game.
discuss
exactly, the feathers are too large and have the heraldics style which contrasts the general style. all this looks like quite bad eclectic style the wings are really disturbing.
i think it doesn't matter if one detail is fixed or not, e.g. if the hilt is functional, it's the attitude rather.
homm4 graphics starts to look marvelously good compared to homm5 which is made by a playstation game developer, while homm4 graphics looked like a degeneration compared to homm2 instead of the expected progress.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted April 08, 2005 05:14 PM |
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the sword is so big that from minor is upgraded to major detail...  Gerdash, I'd say 1-1.5 inch is not enough. 
The feathers look like crystals. Hardly any functionality in them.
But I think the designers said to themselves: You know what, angels are supreme beeings, they are immaterial, very powerful, they travel at speed of thought, so:
1. lets give them a big and impossible to handle sword; their hands are immaterial and can grab the handle through the ring.
2. they don't need functional wings, give them crystals; God will keep them hovering anyway
3. also, lets make cartoons out of them. Why? Well, that's what we're good at, in fact, we can't do somethink else... right?
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 08, 2005 05:35 PM |
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i guess they are able to do something else than etherlords style, but the problem is that they decided not to.
now, my wild speculation would be: it's a fantasy game so let's create fantasy style graphics. in the most stereotypical sense (as i have got the impression) fantasy style means futuristic latex succubi, manga style heroic teenagers, and last but not least, latex-outfitted female knights riding dragons, unicorns, and also pegasi (to tease you a little). and also they have to look most impressively strong, so they must have small heads and large fists and feet as if we looked at them from below (as if they were huge and immensely strong).
in homm context, though, i would feel like attack them with a needle and just let out all the air that is pumped into them. as a result they would just fall on the ground like an empty sack (or a balloon).
so, the angel's sword, no matter how large or unfunctional, is imho no more than a single detail that attracts most attention. imho the problem is the idea that generates those kinds of swords and all the other details in the creature graphics.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted April 08, 2005 07:43 PM |
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Quote:
now, my wild speculation would be: it's a fantasy game so let's create fantasy style graphics. in the most stereotypical sense (as i have got the impression) fantasy style means futuristic latex succubi, manga style heroic teenagers, and last but not least, latex-outfitted female knights riding dragons, unicorns, and also pegasi (to tease you a little). and also they have to look most impressively strong, so they must have small heads and large fists and feet as if we looked at them from below (as if they were huge and immensely strong).
in homm context, though, i would feel like attack them with a needle and just let out all the air that is pumped into them. as a result they would just fall on the ground like an empty sack (or a balloon).
so, the angel's sword, no matter how large or unfunctional, is imho no more than a single detail that attracts most attention. imho the problem is the idea that generates those kinds of swords and all the other details in the creature graphics.
I see, and I completely agree. But if you say something like "the style is wrong" a lot of people will start crying "style is fine, you want fantasy, this is fantasy". So if you want to make a point you have to disect a little the issue and bring into the light all the small details that add-up to create the style. (if some don't see the forrest, then the safest way is to show them: here is a tree, here another, now you have a bunch of them and is called a forrest)
Of course latex fashion industry is present in H5, and of course there can be nothing but air in that big bellies (infested, though). So far we do not have in-game aspects of the archer and other big-legged yeti creatures, so we stick to what we've got.
I'm more concerned of the angel because some creatures will always predominate on the field over other. (I don't like all the creatures in H3 - I don't like the cerberus and the imps - but when you got the devil, the gogs and the fiends in line, I'm ready to ignore them, you know?) Unfortunately, there's no support for this in H5. There's no creature to alleviate the pain.
PS at least the pegasi riders in H3 were not latex babes with sexy-strong attitude like in cheap so-called-art.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 08, 2005 11:06 PM |
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as i have said somewhere recently, i started to play homm2 because of the graphics style. the style had a strong touch of 'medieval monastery woodcuts' (as somebody said and imho hit the very point) and avoided the tough guy wannabe style.
so, that should self-explain why i see decline in graphics starting from homm3.
homm3 lost the 'medieval monastery woodcuts' style and much of the creature design quality present in homm2 (e.g. the homm3 hydra was imho a much less harmonius design than homm2 much less spectacular looking hydra) but still avoided the tough guy wannabe style.
homm4 went further with using modern style, producing this plastic toy appearance. it also created some really annoying design solutions like venom spawn, dragon golem and vampire. now this was imho a clear shift towards modern fantasy art. fantasy style is a trend word, but imho the homm2 style was something much better (the trend word would be 'deeper', i guess).
what i mean by modern fantasy art style:
http://monsters.monstrous.com/dragons_master_9.htm
imho one of the most characteristic fantasy dragons, you have probably seen it before. this style isn't bad by itself, but if it's used for something that i see over and over a thousand times, i start to preceive it's inherent lameness. so imho this style has it's own area of use, but is less suitable for a replayable computer game than a more modest style (like homm2 and most of homm3).
btw homm2 dragon also had the general shape of a fantasy dragon, and that wasn't the most attractive property of homm2 dragon graphics in my eyes (the "texture" was better part), yet it wasn't too much disturbing because fit sufficiently with the other creatures.
i think it would be best if e.g. dragon evolved somewhat in this direction:
http://monsters.monstrous.com/dragonet_.htm
it does feel very much different than the fantasy dragon, doesn't it?
now i think that inclusion of this kind of atmosphere (i am not saying this dragonet should be copied exactly) in properly balanced dose like it was done in homm2 would create what at least some people are expecting from homm graphics. and i also expect that doing it really well might be a somewhat hard work. i can only guess how much work must have been done designing the homm2 monsters (and, coincidentally they talk of homm as a legendary brand now).
now, homm5 is taking the trend word 'fantasy' to another level by including manga- or playstation-style proportion distortions. and not even doin this very well, imho sometimes quite randomly combining details that have completely different style, breaking integrity of creatures and landscape, and letting protruding details make creatures look like hedgehogs instead of bringing out the meaningful shape of a creature.
so, in my opinion, graphics can improve the enjoyment form playing a game, but it can also decrease the enjoyment by making the player feel sick. or graphics can just be neutral. i guess i didn't say anything new here, did i?
if a game is not expected to be a 'play and forget' type game, then imho it's graphics should be less arrogant, so that it wouldn't start to feel too lame too soon.
at the same time, homm is a game of honor, fairy tales, maybe sometimes even epic legends, etc, so the graphics should imho somehow reflect this idealism, sentimentalism, pietism or whatever is the proper word in english (in the blue sky and greener grass sense). that's why i agree with vladpopescu79 that it's difficult to criticise the kickass and tough guy wannabe style of homm5. imho a good amount of inspiration from certain medieval art styles or certain fairy tale illustration styles might be better (it's somewhat difficult to explain what kind of fairy tale illustration i mean, the faery in the homm5 faery ring would be maybe bit too extreme, but that would be the direction).
hmm.. did i manage to clarify what i meant by saying that i am not most excited about homm having fantasy style graphics in the most stereotypical sense (not even talking about it's extremes that we see in homm5 screens).
maybe in some contexts i cannot think of right now the fantasy style or even homm5 style would support long-term replayability?
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baelnorn
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 09, 2005 01:08 AM |
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Hi guys,
Even this is my first post (and maybe the last) i must confess that i'm keeping an eye on this forums since february.The main reason is because usualy this guy( Gerdash) have the ability to cover all my impressions on his posts, and on top of that he clearly points to mistakes and offers possible solutions on how to resolve them (great examples btw ).
For the record i think Heroes 1 was great, Heroes 2 extraordinary, Heroes 3 inegalable and Heroes 4 awfull.
Now screenshots:
I will ignore if they are from (engine) movie ,map, battlefield etc. and i will point to the feeling transcending from depicted universe (from my point of view).
Even if now the trend is for 3D games/engine (in fact almost all are), in my book a good 2D is better than an average 3D (for instance i liked more Warcraft2 than Warcraft3) .
And when i say average3D i mean : low poly models or at least unadequate textures who lead to some TOO colored surfaces => rezult is like in children's books (example bright green dominat from nature looks artificialy improved) etc.
The general line here is that we are PLAYING (like with toys) and even the game concepts follow this directive : the bad guy (demon) must look deformed : big belly, small head = RIDICULOUS (same like vampire from heroes4). I donno but from that point of view i think the team from Disciples 2 has made a verry good job (take a look at their "Death" for instance = transposed here a black cubic robe with OFFCOURSE a twisted sythe).
When memories from heroes games comes to my mind the EPIC/LEGENDARY dimension comes first and not the fact i was PLAYING (with) something.
I don't think that now something can be changed (and even if could be, like Gerdash allready stated : i doubt it counted mine/others sugestions) but my final impression is that Ubisoft uses the engine from Rayman 3D (and not only that  ) when is not the case.
Note for Nival : Magic the Gathering & Heroes 1-3 are great games : Etherlords (who claim to be their children) is NOT !!! -> in fact hope has died for me since i've heard you are in charge ... I don't have something in particular with this company but so far all the russian "fantasy" games have this particularity: great expectations (BattleMages,I of the Dragon) but an unhappy finality. Since the evolution of Heroes is so controversed allready i'm expecting worst.
Sorry for my english/typos
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted April 09, 2005 09:21 PM |
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Upgrades: maybe the first evidence
Here's may analysis of details: only 2 aspects that I can comment:
1. Has enyone noticed that the hero has modern boots? Like, brown leather boots? I don't know where they draw their inspiration from, but I don't think that someone can conceive a mounted knight with such boots. Well, one more stupid aspect of the game, I'm sure we'll take pleasure in finding many more as new images will be realeased...
2. I don't know if someone has noticed this before, but I think we have the first evidence of UPGRADES here.
The angel in the screenshot has blue clothing, and look at his sword: small ring, simple cross, the tip of the sword look regular; not like the one that stands next to the title of the game: that one has tan clothing, red sword, with embelishments on the cross (handle) and "tin can opener" motifs at the tip of the sword. Also, the position of the hand that grabs the handle is different.
If you ask me, the first one might be the angel, the one from the title could be the arch-angel.
If this is so, this is another crappy aspect of the game, because the upgrades are far less spectacular than those of Heroes3.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted April 09, 2005 10:01 PM |
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Quote:
because the upgrades are far less spectacular than those of Heroes3
How on Earth are you able to generalize like that? From an assumption based on two pieces of early artwork, into a comment on an eventual upgrade system?
Besides, isn't the Angle next to the title a black and white drawing?
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted April 09, 2005 10:10 PM |
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No, the Angel of the HOMMV banner has light cream robes with a rose tint. The sword she carries is red, with curved protrusions at the end.
However, that may indicate nothing. It could be that the concept colours were not used, or the clothing colour may differ depending on the hero's 'flag' colour.
Or other assumptions we might make with the bare bones info we have right now.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted April 09, 2005 11:35 PM |
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um...
Quote:
Even if now the trend is for 3D games/engine (in fact almost all are), in my book a good 2D is better than an average 3D (for instance i liked more Warcraft2 than Warcraft3)
if you said StarCraft, i would understand... but WarCraft2? gods... i wanted to pluck my eyes out just so i didn't have to go through the torture the graphics are
http://www.gamesector.co.yu/Slike/games/Warcraft%202%20BNE/screens/Screen01.jpg
http://www.armchairempire.com/images/previews/pc/warcraft3/warcraft_3_1.jpg
...on that note, if SC2 is not 3D, i will hold my breath
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 10, 2005 12:12 AM |
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re: vladpopescu79
it's probably because the hero speciality is riding a horse with boots that have no spurs. i may be wrong, though, because the early concept art chevalier also seems to have no spurs.
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 10, 2005 02:37 AM |
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i think that heroes should move a bit towards disciples as in ghosts not being able to be hit by sword and creatures gaining experience. to me this would makes more sense
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted April 10, 2005 08:55 AM |
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First, to me, the angel looks colored, but if you say you see it in black and white, I cannot contradict you...
Second, I said "IF THIS IS SO".... do I really have to explain myself every time?
Third, and last, OK, it proves nothing, forget I said that.... like I wanted to prove something...
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 10, 2005 05:57 PM |
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re: Lith-MaethorQuote:
Quote:
(for instance i liked more Warcraft2 than Warcraft3)
if you said StarCraft, i would understand... but WarCraft2? gods... i wanted to pluck my eyes out just so i didn't have to go through the torture the graphics are
you must have very good eyes, lith. just extraordinary. to me warcraft2 screenshot looks much more clear than the warcraft3 one which is an eyesore to me.
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted April 10, 2005 06:59 PM |
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Look at the bigger version, a lot more detail can be seen compared to the previous one we had.
The 'squares' on the back of the nightmare turn out to be bony scaly ridges as I'd thought, and we can get a clearer look at the big guy in front, which I now think is an Inferno hero, as we can see a rippling grey cloth streaming out behind the 3 poles on his back.
You also get a better look at the smaller demon in front, seeing a lot more detail on the face than before, making for a more menacing creature than I had thought.
About the inverted wings on the succubus, I think they're just stretched back, and will assume normal position in flight.
The biggest mystery to me is still the detail of the horny winged critter at the back. I think I can make out 2 eyes and a glowing muzzle, but that could be my own eyes playing tricks on me.
Edit, actually, if you blow up the battle scene between him and the angel, you can make out a reptilian visage. Looks much cooler than I originally thought.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted April 10, 2005 08:29 PM |
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Hehe, the "Inferno Hero" has Boba Fett's head on a pike...
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted April 10, 2005 08:38 PM |
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LMAO 
Actually isn't it an Overlord Hero from HOMMIII's helmet.
Any more constructive comments?
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Daddy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
and why not.
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posted April 11, 2005 10:14 PM |
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After viewing this I really like the Nightmare and the little Imp(?)-thing
As for the assumptions about a hero:
Hasn't Ubi said that he is a Demon (therefore a unit)?
reg
Daddy
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