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| Thread: Heroes V - Initial Screenshot Analysis |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 23, 2005 04:50 AM |
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if we have succubus, we surely must have incubus that is just as genitally exposed as succubus and should also be in the erect state (as would imho be appropriate for that kind of creature).
considering that there are probably more male than female creatures, succubus should be more effective. so, succubus should be upgrade of incubus maybe (in contrary to what one might expect from the medieval patriarchic society)?
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted April 23, 2005 06:52 AM |
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Quote:
The mythical succubus has been around much longer than the mythical idea of devils.
Up until 'The Devil' was characterised as the ultimate evil devils (small d) were just another sort of demon.
In a town that draws it's mythology from demonic sources, imo a succucus has more right to be there than that Balor creature.
I'm not questioning the autenticity of mythological succubus nor am I quantitating the time that succubus has been around in people's stories. But some mythological creatures are fit to be used in a game of this sort and others are not.
While I can imagine devils of any kind fighting against humans I cannot do the same for succubuses (or leprechauns for that matter). They should stick to coming during the night and do whatever they're good at.
For me they don't have so many rights in this game in my opinion.
Gerdash: I guess red/charcoal breasts are accepted in games while other masculine primary sexual characeristics might not be accepted. So I guess we won't have erect memebers in our armies. 
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted April 23, 2005 07:05 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 23 Apr 2005
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Thought You Guys Might Want To Know
I've caught Maudib checking this thread out on several occasions. I'm surprised he hasn't responded to it yet. Don't get discouraged if he doesn't. At least he isn't ignoring us.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted April 23, 2005 07:25 AM |
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Vladpope, I still stand by what I said. I agree that these graphics are what they will use, but I still think that the combat interface etc. will be added later.
Quote:
- The graphical combat interfaces are not in the game yet. Those remains to be seen.
Exactly.
Also I never used the grid anyway, I always turned it off.
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John says to live above hell.
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Ellderon
Adventuring Hero
Lightbringer
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posted April 23, 2005 08:30 AM |
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@vladpopescu79
Amen to that!
Democracy sucks....
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted April 23, 2005 03:54 PM |
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Quote:
I've caught Maudib checking this thread out on several occasions. I'm surprised he hasn't responded to it yet. Don't get discouraged if he doesn't. At least he isn't ignoring us.
Well, then maybe I should swear a little more... I didn't know we have guests.
For Muadib (although with infinite shame I admit to have no idea who he/she is): if you change the angel into something less horrible than the present manga version, I promise to be your faithful fremen and to take the water of all your enemies in your name.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted April 23, 2005 06:45 PM |
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Muadib = Fabrice
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
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posted April 23, 2005 07:20 PM |
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Hey, Fabrice, if you're reading this, don't take the criticism too seriously. I mean, sure, some of us would like it if the graphics were a little different, but to me, at least, it's a giant bonus to even <i>have</i> a HOMMV. But it's no secret that most of us were severely disappointed with HOMMIV, a rushed and unfinished game.
And no one (who matters) had anything against the graphics of HOMMII and III, and many of us loved them. I think what some of us are fearful of is that you're giving into the current fad, the manga one, in order to snag as many new buyers as you can.
My opinion is this: Let the japanese do that kind of visual style. They do it best, and while I appreciate the FF games and such, I don't think that style mixes good with the more european/medieval style of the HOMM games.
That said, I think several of the screenshots look quite good, and this could simply be a matter of getting used to new graphics. But I would like to see slimmer, more realistic physical features on heroes and creatures. The griffin looks very nice.
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted April 23, 2005 07:52 PM |
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DonGio: what do you mean "not to take the criticism too seriously"?
Fabrice: you better take my criticism very seriously. Word for word, really. You seem to be in charge for what the Nival team is doing, so we (I) hold you responsible for that. Don't make a japanese mess out of our mythology (a different wording for what DonGio is trying to say). It's no need to be overly polite about this: most of the creaures stink. Just like most of H4 creatures stink. I think the result is visible: H3 and H2 (years and years old, now) are played more than H4. (although the H4 gameplay is definitely more elaborate: this is a CLEAR INDICATIONS TO ALL THOSE WHO SAY GRAPHICS "DON"T MATTER" - it matters, graphics is what doomed the H4). If you don't want the same to happen to H5 put Nival art designers to work.
I don't know much about marketing a game, but if you count on the present trend of manga bull**** you'll have just another game in the branch which kids will play several months and get tired of while heroes fans will do the same.
When a thing ain't broken don't fix it.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 23, 2005 08:52 PM |
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lol, poor fabrice, considering that he must read all those complaints i hope he has a good psychiatrist. such a nice boy with the chin of the homm5 angel.
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about succubus:
as i extremely vaguely remember, there has been folklore about extremely fat lady harassing men in their dreams and suffocating them with the weight of her body. this dream has been explained to be caused by oxygen deficiency when snoring (or maybe some other health problem). as i have also heard things about oxygen deficiency that i don't want to talk about here (i don't want piles of dead teenagers), i think this association is quite logical, and probably very old.
also, our good old webster dictionary seems to confirm it.
succubus:
Latin succuba paramour, from succubare to lie under, from sub- + cubare to lie, recline
: a demon assuming female form to have sexual intercourse with men in their sleep
and incubus:
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin, from Latin incubare
1 : an evil spirit that lies on persons in their sleep; especially : one that has sexual intercourse with women while they are sleeping
3 : one that oppresses or burdens like a nightmare
i have never actively supported having succubi in homm (i.e. never said out my opinion), because i just can't think of a suitable special ability. and i am not quite sure they would be agressive enough for the homm3 or homm4 style inferno town. it seems to be more like a folklore thing, not this hack and burn with gothic attitude style thing that homm inferno town has been associated with.
btw, in dominions2 the succubi try to seduce (or, if unsucessful, assassinate) enemy generals and magically carry them to your castle. this was an extremely pleasant surprise because of the attitude, even though i don't think it's quite correct.
so, i think homm would have to delve much more deeper into folklore to implement succubi the way that would make me cheer over including them in the game. then we would probably also have completely different vampires, zombies, demons, etc. although in my opinion it would be wonderful, most people might start to preceive homm as a game of freaks and geeks and the game would have too few players while being much more expensive.
maybe this kind of game would also be needed, but who would pay for it's development? george soros?
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Ellderon
Adventuring Hero
Lightbringer
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posted April 23, 2005 11:56 PM |
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Well, I have such a gripe with some units apperance (Read - Agel, Crusiader/Paladin...etc...), that I already statrted to tweak some of my older models for hopefully, later insertion into H V...
Now this is a eraly WIP of a Paladin for instance...
http://img225.echo.cx/img225/9548/paladin4li.jpg
All I can say to Nival designers is - REALISTIC PROPORTIONS
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elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 24, 2005 01:59 AM |
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Agreed about the realistic proportions and the Angel absolutely.
Now to bring a more lighter note, I did liked the leaked screenshots very much. Good Lord they leaked cos I wouldnt have known that this game might turn much better than we expected. Maybe even better than homm3 (oops, dont flame me for hoping).
The sceneries look lovely, though I have to admit, I think its a lousy choice they made to release/take screenshots with demons on sunny weather with butterflies flying around. imo they should have picked a more neutral and murky terran.
Griffins excellent (although those foot sizes again), same for all human crits (i expect them all to have the same style armour, so that they dont look like a undiciplined band of marauders). Now, succubus, tis lovely that we have her. It belongs perfectly to the homm genre, and I'm too happy that she isnt put in some silly armour, as we see with the Balor (armour for demons is humiliating; their strength is supernatural, and physical, if you like, dont need too much weapons. Demons were never represented armoured in folktales, only in newer games, which annoys me immensly.) Also, a bit comment about the wings (Balor and Succubus), both pairs arent really wings, either spiky or too small. I assume my sexy demonness wont fly, so prob they're there for decoration purposes. Which is not to say for the Balor as I see, who flies with spikes!!! (yeah well, magic's fine, but real wings would look better)
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 24, 2005 03:28 AM |
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re: Ellderon
huh, you mean, for homm?
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 24, 2005 09:38 AM |
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Quote:
...graphics is what doomed the H4
This is not true. It was the poor AI, but a bunch of user-made maps still provide hours of fun.
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DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
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posted April 24, 2005 01:53 PM |
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Vlad: Here's what I think:
I think the majority of the creatures we've seen so far haven't lived up to the expectations. Still, what I have seen of landscape haven't been too bad, and I still contend that it might be a question of familiarity.
Also, since the game reportedly is in a playable stage, it's likely too late to hope for major changes graphicwise, so let's try to give constructive criticism in order to make the best of it, instead of shouting and yelling and being ignored.
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted April 24, 2005 05:45 PM |
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i also think that we cannot expect any major changes. what i have a faint hope for is that they might consider changing a few creatures and making the legs/feet generally a little leaner, or at least in the cases where it looks worst (e.g. the swordsman on screen5 among the last 6 screens).
they might still have some monsters to design (was it over 130 that they were aiming for?) and considering that they have a general interafce for adding monsters into the game then it may be possible that they havn't completely designed them all yet. actually what i would expect is that they have concept art for all monsters, but they have only the most importart ones in 3d right now. so i hope that they might consider shifting more towards the style of the human archer (meaning ease of recognition of meaningful shape, which is imho trivial common sense, although often ignored).
looking at the poll results at the ubi forum, only about 20..30% had problems with the screensots (somehow can't access the forum right now to check the exact numbers). we can argue that game developers should be better than their customers, etc, but if they need to show that they can make some profits with the series, that might be enough.
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as for the relative failure of homm4 (at least according to the popular opinion), i also agree that one of the reasons was the modern atmosphere of graphics style, but i think it was also the line of sight rules, no combat grid, and hero too vulnerable in some battles while too invincible in others. it's mysterious how they could consider a stack consisting of a solitary hero with the homm damage system that ignores the concept of space (10000000 imps can attack 1 creature).
the graphics problem was already present in homm3. prsonally for me the most disturbing was homm3 hell hounds and cerberi that looked so stiff. i didn't like to use them even though they were arguably the best creatures for a quick start. i used the homm3 imps a lot, though, and that's just because i liked their design. i would put creature design equal to e.g. the movement speed stat of the creature (preferring fast creatures because slow creatures would slow down your amy).
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted April 24, 2005 05:54 PM |
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Quote:
so let's try to give constructive criticism in order to make the best of it, instead of shouting and yelling and being ignored.
OK, how do you expect me to criticise constructively other than I've done?
1. I always bring arguments for what I don't like, and never simply state: this is ugly.
2. I never perceived myself as shouting. You must have sensitive ears I'm angry al right, but not shouting.
3. "being ignored" - well, I have no control on that one. That's monsieur Cambounet's part. Probably that's how they handle PR there at ubi. (with help from our dedicated heroes fans trying not to upset them).
4. What other criticism other than one concerning graphics can you deliver at this point?
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 24, 2005 06:55 PM |
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I had the impression that graphics could be changed whenever developers want to. I realize that creating new animations means a lot of work, but implementing them in the game should not be a problem. Am I right or wrong here?
For example, take a look at an early H4 screenshot: all these creatures were slightly different, while the final version of Dragon Golem was completely different.
There are other examples in other games and mods, too.
To sum up, perhaps this negative feedback would affect the game developers.
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Ellderon
Adventuring Hero
Lightbringer
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posted April 24, 2005 11:49 PM |
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Quote:
re: Ellderon
huh, you mean, for homm?
Yes, Homm V...
EDIT - anyone notice it seems like several units are moving and attacking simuntanously on that shot?
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elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted April 24, 2005 11:56 PM |
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Yep. I saw a HoMM2 screenie that was similar in that way. Definetely not an in-game screenshot, but a pre-fabricated one.
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