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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted July 11, 2007 12:03 AM |
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If you like the way you apply your understanding,what makes you care how others do,unless there trying to make you that is ofc.
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types in obscure english
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted July 11, 2007 12:04 AM |
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For what purpose? Your idea of the ultimate ideal is perpetuating the human race?
Is your ultimate idea hanging around with countless other souls and a long-bearded old fellow without any animals, plants or other living beings? And what to do the whole "time"? Singing "hosianna"?
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You're telling me that you only live for your family? So if they die in some accident, then you have nothing to live for?
I thought believers have a positive sight of life. Your logic would be: I will never marry, because my wife could die by an accident and that would make me so sad...I will never get children coz they could die by cancer and I couldn't suffer that....and so on...
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What happens when someone in your family backstabs you? What if your wife or husband kills all your children and commits suicide?
What if not? What if I will have a very fortunate and happy life with my family till I die?
What if YOU once discover there is NO god? When u discover everything u did was for nothing? But it will be too late for having a family...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted July 11, 2007 12:05 AM |
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If Christianity isn't worth putting all your hopes and dreams into, pray tell me what exists on this planet that is?
Considering that the human race isn't exactly endangered, I'd say a very large percentage of the population would agree that making a family is worth putting all your hopes and dreams into.
For what purpose? Your idea of the ultimate ideal is perpetuating the human race? You're telling me that you only live for your family? So if they die in some accident, then you have nothing to live for? What happens when someone in your family backstabs you? What if your wife or husband kills all your children and commits suicide? You will put all your hopes and dreams into that?
Yes I do,in my closest,yes,is that a problam?
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types in obscure english
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted July 11, 2007 12:07 AM |
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I'm unsure what are you people questining here...
The faith in sicence or the facts of God?
I mean sirously people,why debate on something that cannot be defined,we can never ever know the true answer,then why try?
I can only talk for myself here. I am eager to know what makes people so sure there is a God. What does it need to convince people from something they have never seen, never heard, never tasted. They just have read it.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted July 11, 2007 12:11 AM |
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I'm unsure what are you people questining here...
The faith in sicence or the facts of God?
I mean sirously people,why debate on something that cannot be defined,we can never ever know the true answer,then why try?
I can only talk for myself here. I am eager to know what makes people so sure there is a God. What does it need to convince people from something they have never seen, never heard, never tasted. They just have read it.
I can answer you that..
as you well know us mankind are a poor,lazy,powerhungry,and not liked to be blamed,as we afride of differnt,we also blame it for worse,or for best,it comes to work when we cant explain some phenoman easier to then to explore call it ,"an act of god".
Theist wont argue,but when mankind decided to take finacial and political advantge of "An Act of God" Atheist ware born!
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types in obscure english
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Korejora
Promising
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posted July 11, 2007 12:30 AM |
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For what purpose? Your idea of the ultimate ideal is perpetuating the human race? You're telling me that you only live for your family? So if they die in some accident, then you have nothing to live for? What happens when someone in your family backstabs you? What if your wife or husband kills all your children and commits suicide? You will put all your hopes and dreams into that?
As a side note, I'd like to point out that I'm not inclined to have children, nor would I be unable to move on if the family I currently have is lost, so I may not be the best person to explain the motivation to start a family to you. I simply think it's worth noting that the majority of the population has this motivation.
Back to the subject at hand, you seem to be implying that the reason Christianity is a good place to put your hopes and dreams is that it's indestructible. For example, I can't ask you a parallel question (What if God dies or betrays you?) because according to the religion, it's impossible. This seems like a bad place to put one's hopes and dreams, to me; there is nothing to hope for and nothing to dream about. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained."
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That's the best part. 
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 11, 2007 02:13 AM |
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On a slightly different but related topic, I actually have very little against religion. When considering religion, many atheists say, "Z0MG [which is ironic in itself] teh genocides!!! teh crusades!!!" Religion causes many bad things. Yet no one notices the bad things that religion prevents, because they don't happen.
I have nothing against most religious people. Many intelligent people are religious. I, fortunately, have never been involved in a genocide (on either side). I only have one problem with religion: it really impedes progress.
Example 1:
Me: Think about how beneficial it would be if we genetically modified people. They would be all healthy and geniouses. Of course, we can't do that yet, but we have to research in that direction.
Religious person: We would be playing God!
Me: ...
Example 2:
Me: Let's prevent unwanted fetuses from being born; they'll probably be abused if they aren't adopted.
Religious person: Murderer!
Me: ...
Example 3:
Me: Let's not bring back prayer into school. It really has no place there; it's a waste of time.
Religious person: Shut up, you godless atheist.
This happens to me rather often. And it annoys me.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted July 11, 2007 09:48 AM |
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What is your take on other holy literature, such as the Quran? Or the Vedas?
I don't know, I haven't studied them much. Do they claim to be divinely inspired? (obviously not everything that claims it is divinely inspired is, but I do not even know if they claim that.)
Oh yes they are. They are literal words of God.
I just brought this up because you said that you know that the Bible is True. How do you know that?
Interesting if you keep the option open that Quran or Vedas are holy as well... I think Christianity doesn't allow believing in other books from God besides the Bible?
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted July 11, 2007 09:49 AM |
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The empty set
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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted July 11, 2007 01:53 PM |
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Interesting if you keep the option open that Quran or Vedas are holy as well... I think Christianity doesn't allow believing in other books from God besides the Bible?
Thats logical,if one is sure that the new and old testaments are true,so must be the quran and vedas,and other religions,how can one seprate true god of flase god,if both are just faiths,and there is no scientific proffs for both.?
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types in obscure english
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 12, 2007 04:16 PM |
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Actually, if the Koran is true, then the Vedas aren't.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted July 12, 2007 06:41 PM |
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What if god was one of us?
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Dreaming of a Better World
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 12, 2007 07:30 PM |
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 13, 2007 10:10 AM |
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Since atheists already gave the reasons why don't they believe, time for me to sum my thoughts up, since I don't see many theists explaining their point of view here 
Of course it's just my point of view, and if you do not agree with it, no prob.
Here's a little FAQ..
God doesn't exist, since there is no proof. The lack of proofs is the best evidence.
Humanity laughed at milions of things, because there was no "proof", and drastically changed their minds once the proof appeared out of nowhere. There is no evidence yet. - neither for his existence, nor for his absence.. well, I have some, but those are my personal. Sorry.
God can't be all-knowing. If he knows all, he already know which people will be redeemed, which makes living pointless.
"All-knowing" is something inmesurable by human means; If we want it to be something more "human-alike", we can describe "all knowing" as a "being that knows every possible event and the result of every possible event". That can be called allknowing by human terms, and it fits the logical holes.
God is not all-powerful, if he is, why he did not..
My explanation refers to the all-knowing part. If God can freely choose between every possible event, he can be called "all-powerful" by human means. If there's something more about the all-powerful part, we can't measure it by human terms. Therafore, it's easier to stick with the more logical and fitting explanation which does not create logical holes.
Can God create a rock so heavy that he can't lift it himself?
Yes. He can lift it and can not lift it at the same time and it still does not break his allpowerful-ness. WHat's wrong? If you asked a question that is completely contradictory and therafore pointless by logical means, why do you expect a logical and non-contradictory answer? If we use human logic, such question cannot be answered because.. aww, go to school. You will learn why 
God despises homosexuals, it's not fair.
I don't understand it either. I must add here that God hates the gay sex as far as i understand, not the gay people themselves, but I still don't understand why.
The bible is full of nonsense.
And what do you expect from a book written thousands of years ago, by humans. The more "nonsence filled" old testament is mixed with fairy tales, jewish history, common stories, legends, it's also soaked with other cultures' infulences and early church's modification, which leads to happy nonsense we see nowadays. Some parts are simply added centuries later (genesis, for example), some are thrown away. That's why it's safer to stick with New Testament. There's significantly less nonsense there. Well, unless you find a call to be just, loving and merciful a nonsense, that is.
The New Testament isn't very accurate; each of the evangelists writes different things.
Common stories are usually accurate, so I find this a good thing Anyways, for things written by people living in different places, in different time, it's accurate enough for me.
there is no spiritual world, only chemical reactions.
Ok, so let me tell you a tale which you'll of course find bullsh*t, but who cares  It's authentic. My mother always was a very serious woman, atheist. Her aunt was in perfect condition, healthy and not very old. She had a dream once. She dreamt about her aunt, which came to her, dressed all black, and told her she came to bid her farewell and that she loves her very much. Next day, the aunt was discovered dead (heart failure). Nobody even imagined such a healthy woman could die. Now tell me my dear friend, what a MARVELOUS coincidence that was! Of course, you can say it was a coincidence, for me and my family it's something entirely different. I know a few more stories like that (not exactly that obvious, but still), which is a strong evidence for me that we're not a bunch of molecules mvassilev declares we are.
God doesn't hear our prayers - he's not there.
Just look how many ppl declare God helped them in some way.. of course you may say there are loonatics, have it your way. I, myself, got "insanely lucky" a few times, which I connect to God's help.. you can connect it to "insane luck", of course.
There is no evidence that there is something after death.
There is not, except for the clinical death. Ok, you may say the visions are literally visions of a dying brain.. and I would agree.. if those visions were pleasant. They are not always pleasant.. which completely kills the theory of the brain manufacturing "anaesthetic hormons" to ease the pain of dying and the consciousness.. Of course, I abstract here a bit, since I do not believe in those things, although they can't be simply ignored, you know.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted July 13, 2007 10:21 AM |
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there is no spiritual world, only chemical reactions.
Ok, so let me tell you a tale which you'll of course find bullsh*t, but who cares It's authentic. My mother always was a very serious woman, atheist. Her aunt was in perfect condition, healthy and not very old. She had a dream once. She dreamt about her aunt, which came to her, dressed all black, and told her she came to bid her farewell and that she loves her very much. Next day, the aunt was discovered dead (heart failure). Nobody even imagined such a healthy woman could die. Now tell me my dear friend, what a MARVELOUS coincidence that was! Of course, you can say it was a coincidence, for me and my family it's something entirely different. I know a few more stories like that (not exactly that obvious, but still), which is a strong evidence for me that we're not a bunch of molecules mvassilev declares we are.
Yes, and I find it strange that this somehow is evidence towards the CHRISTIAN god. These things have occurred throughout humanity's history.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 13, 2007 10:22 AM |
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It's not an evidence for any God, as you see; it's only an evidence that there's something more than molecules. There was no God part in that dream, so I do not consider it an evidence.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted July 13, 2007 10:27 AM |
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It's not an evidence for any God, as you see; it's only an evidence that there's something more than molecules. There was no God part in that dream, so I do not consider it an evidence.
Ah, I see.
I somehow read that entire post as "why am I a Catholic" 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 13, 2007 10:28 AM |
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ah.
Well, I'm not a catholic; I'm a Protestant. Catholics have too many pagan customs absorbed into their church - I don't like it.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted July 13, 2007 12:40 PM |
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Edited by dimis at 12:41, 13 Jul 2007.
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What if god was one of us?
Joan Osbourne?
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there is no spiritual world, only chemical reactions.
Ok, so let me tell you a tale which you'll of course find bullsh*t, but who cares It's authentic. My mother always was a very serious woman, atheist. Her aunt was in perfect condition, healthy and not very old. She had a dream once. She dreamt about her aunt, which came to her, dressed all black, and told her she came to bid her farewell and that she loves her very much. Next day, the aunt was discovered dead (heart failure). Nobody even imagined such a healthy woman could die. Now tell me my dear friend, what a MARVELOUS coincidence that was! Of course, you can say it was a coincidence, for me and my family it's something entirely different. I know a few more stories like that (not exactly that obvious, but still), which is a strong evidence for me that we're not a bunch of molecules mvassilev declares we are.
Are you sure that you and your mother had the same information about her aunt's health?  Even if you ask her, are you sure she is telling you the truth about her prior knowledge on her aunt's health? How many times have you dreamed about something that did not happen or had a resemblance with something that happened?
Perhaps I have more comments, but I really got to go now ...
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The empty set
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted July 16, 2007 12:59 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 12:59, 16 Jul 2007.
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She had a dream once. She dreamt about her aunt, which came to her, dressed all black, and told her she came to bid her farewell and that she loves her very much. Next day, the aunt was discovered dead (heart failure). Nobody even imagined such a healthy woman could die. Now tell me my dear friend, what a MARVELOUS coincidence that was!
When I was a young boy, I often had the dream, germany will be winner of the worldchampionship in football (soccer). And you know what? 1990 germany became worldchampion. Coincidence or God's work?
- Nelson Mandela for sure often had the dream of a "free" Southafrica and about the end of apartheid.
- Mahatma gandhi for sure often had the dream of a peacefull end of british colonization
- A young girl often dreams about a new puppet
- Bill Clinton often had a dream about a sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky
- William often dreamt about more red stars
- ...
- ...
So ur idea is, all these dreams came true because God made them happen?
I am pretty sure millions of other boys dreamt about a different worldchampion than germany 1990....
If it works well --> God's work
If it doesn't work well --> C'est la vie.
That's too easy....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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