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mvassilev
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posted January 16, 2008 11:36 PM |
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Atheism isn't a religion. Stupid judges shouldn't require a religion.
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Eccentric Opinion
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SirDunco
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Supreme Hero
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posted January 17, 2008 12:09 AM |
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Maybe atheism is not a religion in the organized sence of the Catholic church, for example, but there are quite a lot of similarities between atheism and organized religion. For me atheism and theism are quite similar. I make fun of atheist almost the same way I make fun of theists.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted January 17, 2008 12:42 AM |
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@SirDunco
My type of guy 
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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mvassilev
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posted January 17, 2008 03:41 AM |
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there are quite a lot of similarities between atheism and organized religion. For me atheism and theism are quite similar.
Such as?
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Eccentric Opinion
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SirDunco
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Supreme Hero
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posted January 17, 2008 10:48 AM |
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Edited by SirDunco at 10:49, 17 Jan 2008.
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this is from my post way back on page one
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But just as one can reject theism for it's blinding belief in God and his or hers all powerfull self, on can just as easily reject Atheism, for it's belief in random events, without any meaning
At the start of the Bible, in the book of Genesis we read about the creation of the world... God created it. A fine prospect if you do not want to go deeper. Who exactly is this God? How did he create Earth? Why for what purpose? These and many more are just from the many questions that pop up.
And so will they when you reject this theory, and head to the other extreme of the Big Bang. A universe of unimaginable width,supposedly, created from one small point of absolute density. All the matter, you, me this PC, just everything is a random cluster of Atoms created in the evolution of Billions of years.
Theism - says that the universe and this world was created directly by god and god directs and rules this world.
Atheism - says the exact opposite. No god, just matter and atoms. Everything came from the big bang and so on and so on.
Theism sets god to be the main purpose of this universe.
Atheism sets matter to be the main purpose of this universe.
They both have a starting point (creation and big bang) from which they claim that existence and time began, but both of these events indicate some kind of prior events, actions. A simple rule of physics is that matter can't be destroyed or created - matter is infinite vs. God is infinite.
The list goes on and on, the fight between atheism and theism is just the continuation of the, really epic struggle between idealism and materialism which drags through the history of humankind.
Baklava - We Agnostics have to stick together 
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antipaladin
Promising
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of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted January 17, 2008 12:04 PM |
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im an atheist,but i have tendcy to creationest sides..
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types in obscure english
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Gnoll_Mage
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Supreme Hero
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posted January 17, 2008 01:34 PM |
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Hmm, I don't think the big bang was the ultimate starting point, isn't there a theory now that there are many Universes forming from bangs all the time, caused by collisions from other universes ... but thinking about it you are right, there is not much difference in the two ideas. I believe the Universe was probably started by one or more higher beings, but I wouldn't put the label God on to them, I think they were equivalent to advanced versions of us - since I believe in Universe evolution and the inevitability of life...
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted January 17, 2008 01:51 PM |
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Edited by Minion at 13:51, 17 Jan 2008.
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Atheism - says the exact opposite. No god, just matter and atoms. Everything came from the big bang and so on and so on.
Atheism sets matter to be the main purpose of this universe.
They both have a starting point (creation and big bang) from which they claim that existence and time began, but both of these events indicate some kind of prior events, actions. A simple rule of physics is that matter can't be destroyed or created - matter is infinite vs. God is infinite.
One thing needs to be made clear now. Atheists don't claim that existence began from Big Bang. Scientist do - who may or may not be atheists. No where on the description of atheism does one need to embrace Big Bang, or any scientific theory for that matter.
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mvassilev
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posted January 17, 2008 01:53 PM |
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for it's belief in random events, without any meaning
Why should the universe have any meaning? Maybe it just is.
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And so will they when you reject this theory, and head to the other extreme of the Big Bang. A universe of unimaginable width,supposedly, created from one small point of absolute density. All the matter, you, me this PC, just everything is a random cluster of Atoms created in the evolution of Billions of years.
Why not? It makes a lot more sense that some guy that's outside time and space creating everything.
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Theism sets god to be the main purpose of this universe.
Atheism sets matter to be the main purpose of this universe.
Matter isn't a "purpose".
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They both have a starting point (creation and big bang) from which they claim that existence and time began, but both of these events indicate some kind of prior events, actions. A simple rule of physics is that matter can't be destroyed or created - matter is infinite vs. God is infinite.
Exactly. That's why I don't think that the Big Bang was the beginning. The universe has always existed, but it has expanded and contracted numerous times (Big Bang-Big Crunch). What about dark energy?, you may ask. Well, the amount of black holes increases, so the force of gravity increases. The universe will stop accelerationg.
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the fight between atheism and theism is just the continuation of the, really epic struggle between idealism and materialism which drags through the history of humankind.
Materialism FTW.
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Eccentric Opinion
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SirDunco
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Supreme Hero
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posted January 17, 2008 02:49 PM |
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okay sorry for using the big bang as an example. Again I just used it example plainly functionally, I do not claim that atheism and the big bang are interconnected it is just one of the theories that is in contrast with theistic theory of creation(if it's Christian creationism or others).
It was used plainly as an example and I do not claim it to be a fact. I should put a disclaimer on the end of every post.
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quote:for it's belief in random events, without any meaning
Why should the universe have any meaning? Maybe it just is.
the word is maybe. Can you tell me that life has, or does not have any purpose? If you can claim either of the arguments as a fact, then on what grounds?
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quote:And so will they when you reject this theory, and head to the other extreme of the Big Bang. A universe of unimaginable width,supposedly, created from one small point of absolute density. All the matter, you, me this PC, just everything is a random cluster of Atoms created in the evolution of Billions of years.
Why not? It makes a lot more sense that some guy that's outside time and space creating everything.
Again an example of contrasts. For me, to claim that we are in "God's" direct power is as absurd as to claim that this all is just a random lucky chance of events, with no meaning an purpose what so ever. Just does not sound right to me and honestly I do not believe it.
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quote:Theism sets god to be the main purpose of this universe.
Atheism sets matter to be the main purpose of this universe.
Matter isn't a "purpose".
It is, in this case the infinity of matter is a purpose, the main purpose and idea of the universe as it is. It's infinity of matter versus the infinity of God. In one case, all of existence is based on "God" and in the other case the existence is based on matter.
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quote:They both have a starting point (creation and big bang) from which they claim that existence and time began, but both of these events indicate some kind of prior events, actions. A simple rule of physics is that matter can't be destroyed or created - matter is infinite vs. God is infinite.
Exactly. That's why I don't think that the Big Bang was the beginning. The universe has always existed, but it has expanded and contracted numerous times (Big Bang-Big Crunch). What about dark energy?, you may ask. Well, the amount of black holes increases, so the force of gravity increases. The universe will stop accelerationg.
Firstly can you even imagine something like infinity? If so, can you even dare to understand it? For the human mind operating in time, knowing things have a start and finish, the idea of infinity is something it just cant comprehend and not understand. For me talks about infinity, of whatever, seem as just rash statements that the person cannot comprehend. Therefore if you can't comprehend something, you cannot possibly defend it as a fact. And if you do, your arguments stand on a very unstable and weak base.
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mvassilev
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posted January 17, 2008 09:16 PM |
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the word is maybe. Can you tell me that life has, or does not have any purpose? If you can claim either of the arguments as a fact, then on what grounds?
Occam's Razor. Sure, we could be going through life so that we can train to fight evil brain-stealing aliens when we're reborn, but does anyone actually think that? No. Because there is no evidence to suggest it. How do you know that the Earth isn't about to spontaneously explode? Because you have no reason to believe it. Same thing here. Why should life have a purpose? And I'm not saying it doesn't. I think that our life's purpose is whatever we want it to be. But there is no reason to think that there is anything beyond that.
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Again an example of contrasts. For me, to claim that we are in "God's" direct power is as absurd as to claim that this all is just a random lucky chance of events, with no meaning an purpose what so ever. Just does not sound right to me and honestly I do not believe it.
All right, but the fact that it doesn't sound right to you isn't because of atheism, but because of your ethics/morals/beliefs/perceptions.
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It is, in this case the infinity of matter is a purpose, the main purpose and idea of the universe as it is. It's infinity of matter versus the infinity of God. In one case, all of existence is based on "God" and in the other case the existence is based on matter.
We are all made of matter. I doubt anyone denies that. But how is infinity of matter a purpose?
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Firstly can you even imagine something like infinity?
I can't. I don't need to. But just because I can't imagine infinity doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Infinity is a concept created by humans - it is an unbound length of time. I may not be able to imagine infinity, but I understand the concept and the idea of infinity.
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Seraphim
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Knowledge Reaper
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posted January 17, 2008 10:12 PM |
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CHAOS IS THE ONLY TRUE ANSWER
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"Science is not fun without cyanide"
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antipaladin
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of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted January 17, 2008 10:13 PM |
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Infinity is a concept created by humans
And Theism isent?
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types in obscure english
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted January 17, 2008 10:16 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 22:18, 17 Jan 2008.
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Meh.. religion is created by the imagination of divinity.But is just a psychical value and nothing more.
Aka:I am speaking just about Science versus religion
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"Science is not fun without cyanide"
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mvassilev
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posted January 17, 2008 11:02 PM |
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Infinity is a concept created by humans
And Theism isent?
Theism is more than a concept. It is a belief. Theism is the practice of believing in God. Infinity is an unlimited amount of something.
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Eccentric Opinion
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SirDunco
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posted January 17, 2008 11:07 PM |
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Theism and infinity are very closely related. A blind belief in something you cannot understand if it's "God" or the infinity of matter, or life or existence ect. is very closely related. It's just a belief, you can't comprehend the topic so you... just believe.
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mvassilev
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posted January 18, 2008 12:39 AM |
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No, you don't understand. I can't imagine infinity. I undestand the idea of infinity. I can't imagine an all-powerful eternal God. But I understand the idea of such a being. The difference lies in the concepts. The concept of God is the concept of a being of whose existence there is no evidence. The concept of infinity is defined as a limitless amount of something (time, in this case). The difference is that God is supposed to exist regardless of the concept, and infinity is defined as its concept. According to theists, without humans, there would still be a god. The concept of infinity, however, requires that humans define it in order for it to exist.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
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If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted January 18, 2008 01:51 AM |
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The concept of infinity is, actually, hard to grasp. One can't understand how it is possible that the universe is endless in space (apparently).
When did "time" BEGIN? < That's a hard concept for me to grasp. Time, at least for me, implies it STARTS running somewhere...
I can't grasp infinity.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted January 18, 2008 01:56 AM |
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I always thought that size of the universe as we know it is actually measured (relatively, with relation to big bang and + speed of spreading etc,etc...)
Anyway.. my physics lessons are all but forgotten now... but I seem to remember that theory/fact, or whatever it is 
on the other hand, if it has the end/border... on the other side should be.... nothing... and nothing can't exist because its well... umm.... nothing.....ok, I'm out, this gives me headache......
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 18, 2008 03:07 AM |
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on the other hand, if it has the end/border... on the other side should be.... nothing... and nothing can't exist because its well... umm.... nothing.....ok, I'm out, this gives me headache......
Why can't nothing exist? Most of you is made of nothing (the space between electrons and the nucleus). Nothing is the absence of matter. Nothing wrong with that (ha ha, a pun).
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The concept of infinity is, actually, hard to grasp. One can't understand how it is possible that the universe is endless in space (apparently).
I think that what you're confusing here is the concept of infinity and imagining infinity. The concept of infinity is "there is no limit". There. That's the concept. The concept is easy to understand. Now, it's hard to imagine how this would look, but that's infinity, not the concept of it.
It's like a repeating decimal. You understand what it is, but you can't imagine how many digits it has.
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