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WilX
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 30, 2006 11:15 PM |
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Edited by WilX at 23:37, 30 Sep 2006.
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Quote:
Level 1 - Serpent Fly /Cuoatl (Flyer)
Level 2 - Skink /Chameleon Hunter (Shooter)
Level 3 - Naga Temple Guard/ Naga Templar
Level 4 - Crocodile Rider / Basilisk Rider (I would call 'em Sentinel/ Champion)
Level 5 - Naga Priestess/ Naga High Priestess (Caster, Shooter)
Level 6 - Naga Archon/ Naga Grand Archon (Large Naga)
Level 7 - Water Wyrm/ Water Dragon (Flyer)
I love the whole Mayan/ Incan idea as a backdrop for the Naga race.
Rarely will you see a race name followed by a job title in HoMM it's not Naga priestess it would simply be preistess. As it's not elvin druid or human paladin.
I don't see anything wrong with Conserve. Clearly a nuetral dwelling that basis it's lifestyle on keeping peace and using diplomacy, it would make sence to use this name. Also on a side note "Preservation" is the name of the elf town in Heroes 3. If you're going for swamp, I'd say go with "Temple" because that is what hereos fans associate with the swamp town. Isn't it? I can't quite remember. Maybe it was fortress.
I'd also like to point out that swamp beasts clash very much with the Naga's ideals and lifestyle. At least thats how I presieve it in the History of Creation. Particularly Basalisk, lizardman, and wyrm. These are all very chaotic type creatures, and a wyrm is a lesser dragon descendant that lacks any magical ability. Which does not seem logical in a Naga town IMO.
You guys are doing a fine job though combining your ideas. I'm just trying to add in my two cents thinking maybe it'll help. So IDK feel free to consider what I write or simply ignore it. Oh yeah! BTW you should know that Naga where water dwellers before blizzard, and it's almost clear that they are in Hereos too.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 30, 2006 11:15 PM |
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Quote:
Excellent line-up. I would make some adjustments to your list:
Level 1 - Serpent Fly /Cuoatl (Flyer)
Level 2 - Skink /Chameleon Hunter (Shooter)
Level 3 - Naga Temple Guard/ Naga Templar
Level 4 - Crocodile Rider / Basilisk Rider (I would call 'em Sentinel/ Champion)
Level 5 - Naga Priestess/ Naga High Priestess (Caster, Shooter)
Level 6 - Naga Archon/ Naga Grand Archon (Large Naga)
Level 7 - Water Wyrm/ Water Dragon (Flyer)
I love the whole Mayan/ Incan idea as a backdrop for the Naga race.
I like the Line-up of Creatures, The Serpentfly- Cuoatl is doable. Still I suggest to switch the level 5 and 6, to express the inherent magical nature of the Naga. Also I think we should rethink some of these names. Some of them will get us into copyright trouble (skinks have been used in Warhammer and the Champion is the level 6 Renegade and using Hunter as the name for a shooters seems rather ignorant)
The Inca/Maya theme of the town is fine with me, but if we intend the Naga as neutral, I don't think we can get away with any ritual sacrifices, besides the Demons already have such a building that allows such. But we shall discuss such later, because we nead a base upon which to build.
Here is another attempt for the Line-up:
1 Serpentfly - Coatl (to refer to the Incan god of the sky Quetzalcoatl)
2 Lizardman Shardarcher - Lizardman Sniper (uses Iceshards as arrowheads)
3 Templar Viper - Templar Cobra (Naga Templars who posses, among other things, venomous fangs)
4 Crocodile Cavalry - Basilisk Cavalry (rider is overused)
5 Naga Preatorian - Naga Blademaster
6 Naga Prietsess - Naga Oracle
7 Water Wyrm/ Water Dragon
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted September 30, 2006 11:23 PM |
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Edited by SBlister at 23:28, 30 Sep 2006.
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Quote:
1 Serpentfly - Coatl (to refer to the Incan god of the sky Quetzalcoatl)
2 Lizardman Shardarcher - Lizardman Sniper (uses Iceshards as arrowheads)
3 Templar Viper - Templar Cobra (Naga Templars who posses, among other things, venomous fangs)
4 Crocodile Cavalry - Basilisk Cavalry (rider is overused)
5 Naga Preatorian - Naga Blademaster
6 Naga Prietsess - Naga Oracle
7 Water Wyrm/ Water Dragon
Here's my take on the names:
1 Serpentfly - Coatl
2 I would prefer the Lizardmen to use spears because too many creatures are using bows and arrows... archers, elves, assassins, skeletons...
3 Viper Templar - Cobra Templar
4 Sentinel - Grand Sentinel
5 Naga Praetorian - Naga Archon
6 Naga Priestess - Naga High Priestess
7 Water Wyrm - Water Dragon
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 30, 2006 11:25 PM |
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Quote:
Here's my take on the names:
1 Serpentfly - Cuoatl
2 Huntsman - Sniper
3 Viper Templar - Cobra Templar
4 Sentinel - Grand Sentinel
5 Naga Gladiator - Naga Praetorian
6 Naga Priestess - Naga High Priestess
7 Water Wyrm - Water Dragon
Agreed, as long as you ditch the U in Coatl.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted September 30, 2006 11:40 PM |
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How about this idea for a naga town.
Hero - Prophet
lv 1 Nyad - Siren (stun)
lv 2 Basilisk - Greater Basilisk (poison)
lv 3 Naga Archer - Naga Guard (ranged)
lv 4 Gorgon - Medusa (ranged, stonegaze, no melee penalty)
lv 5 Naga Witch - Naga Sorceress (caster)
lv 6 Naga Tidelord - Naga Warlord (wound, no retaliation)
lv 7 Sea Serpent - Sea Dragon(flyer, caster)
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted September 30, 2006 11:54 PM |
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Edited by SBlister at 00:06, 01 Oct 2006.
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I think we shall just stick with this line up:
1 Serpentfly (Flyer) - Cuoatl
2 Tracker (Shooter) - Sniper
3 Viper Templar (First Strike) - Cobra Templar
4 Sentinel (Large, Enraged) - Grand Sentinel (+ Petrifying Gaze)
5 Naga Praetorian (Large) - Naga Archon (+ No Retaliation)
6 Naga Priestess (Shooter, Caster) - Naga High Priestess (+Wrath)
7 Water Wyrm (Large, Trample, Flyer) - Water Dragon (+ Divine Presence)
We have to allocate 9-11 more abilities for the various creatures unless some adjustments are to made for the above).
Trample means this creature doesn't fly during that round, but glides on the ground and usings its thorny scales, damage all creatures its moves past.
Divine Presence Increases the morale of all creatures when this creature is present. The nagas believe the water dragons are the children of the Dragon God of Water, who's name I don't remember and enjoy a morale boost.
Wrath Calling a favor from the Dragon of Water, the High Priestess can cast a random non-area effecting destruction spell (Icebolt, Lightning Bolt) on an enemy creature. Can only be cast three times during combat. This also means that the normal priestess can only cast divine/summoning spells in her regular spellbook.
Some new abilities are in order so everyone put on your thinking hat. Also I was thinking if we should remove viper and cobra from the name templar and make them templar/elite templar but retain the fact that viper nagas are made templars and cobra nagas are made elite templars.
Is our hero a sorceress?
ps- War-Overlord would you like to have make and control a Master Post since this was your idea to begin with. I don't think I can handle keeping track and updating another Master Post after finishing the Stronghold. 
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted October 01, 2006 12:36 AM |
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Edited by yasmiel at 00:41, 01 Oct 2006.
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I think no unit should be called "Naga something", since no major races in H5 have their units called "racename unitname"... so no elven hunters, dark elven riders, ... no human squires... so we should not have a unit called naga queen or naga swordsman or whatever  ...
Unlike H3, there are more than one main race in this game, so we have to take that into consideration...
Since Nagas wield katanas in DoMM, why not make it a town with slight asian/japanese theme... even tho vampires also use some japanese fashion details on themselves 
Few random names not including naga word:
Priestess, high priestess, myrmidon, samurai/kensai(if it takes japanese theme, like humans which took euro one).
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 01, 2006 01:09 AM |
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^ I think its okie to keep the Naga name... for now. As it is easier to give the reader a mental image of what it is and how the look. They can always be drop later.
-----------------------------------------------
I think one thing to keep in mind (along with the creature build and hero/racial ablity) is the overall playing strategy. While they should still be balance, I would hate to see a new faction play just like one of the old, save for some minor skin or ablity change. I think one of the early thing needed is to have a strong focus of what kind of strategy, or game playing experience, that you want to bring to the player. Do you want them to be more of a Rusher? Turtle? Shooter? Creature depended? Hero depended? etc etc.
With that in mind (and need atleast 2 differnt kind of strategy that they could adapt), than the creatures and hero ablity can all fall in place.
The creature line up so far seem balance, but I am not detecting any unique strategy that they could offer. (beside the more typical shoot first, flyer fly in, melee attack) Should they have a more overall general strength as well as weakness?
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted October 01, 2006 01:41 AM |
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The name naga is just there as action jack said so that we know which are the naga units. somewhere down the road they will be removed. We're following the mayan/incan path when creating this swamp-esque town and not the japanese. nagas are creatures with hindu origins but i think it would be interesting to mix em with the mayans.
as far as the strategy goes, that will come with what abilities we choose for the units. once that is established, im sure we can come up with the details for the heroes and the racial abilities. thats the approach we did when creating the stronghold.
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Crashnburn
Hired Hero
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posted October 01, 2006 01:53 AM |
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man, you guys have been busy. Here's my two cents.
Hero should be Sorceress given that the old Sorceress hero was related to water due to her navigation ability.
As far as town name how about Bastion? (From dictionary.com: "a fortified place." or "anything seen as preserving or protecting some quality, condition, etc.: a bastion of solitude; a bastion of democracy.")
Creature line up I had in mind. (Keep in mind I came up with this with thinking the Naga being tied to the seas not the swamps. And along those lines I want to go ahead and suggest we stay away from swamps with the Naga. Swamps don't seem to be like a happy place for a race that is possibly neutral if we follow Alci's comments.)
1) Pikeman - Basic Naga warrior dressed with light armor and carries a pike. Abilities: 1.5x damage to cavalry units (paladin, dark rider, bear rider, etc)
upgrade - Phalanx - unit gains a shield. Abilities: + ???
2) Harpy - Harpies make their nests in the cliffs along the coast. Ablilites: flying
upgrade - Harpy Hag - Ablilites: + (need new ability here due to Blood maidens having the return ability)
3) Guardian - Basic Naga unit from previous HOMM games. Ablilities: no enemy retal.
upgrade - Champion - Ablilites: + first strike
4) Muse - Priestesses of the Naga people. Believed that their songs inspire their people to greatness. Ablilites: shooter, spellcaster (righteous strength, haste)
upgrade - Siren - High priestessess of the Naga. Not only can their songs inpire but the can cause confusion in their foes. Ablilites: shooter, spellcaster (righteous strength, haste, berserk, charm [puppet master])
5) Gorgon (Medusa) - (Gorgons/Medusas are snake like and the legend of Medusa has ties to the sea through Poesidon therefore they fit with this Naga town) Ablilites: shooter, unlimited shots, stone gaze (15% chance)
upgrade - Gorgon (Medusa) Queen - Ablilites: shooter, unlimited shots, stone gaze (25% chance)
6) Kraken - (I was picturing something more along the lines of the kraken that appears in Shining Force. A large shell on its back with octopus/squid tentacles coming out the bottom used for propulsion in the water and for walking on the land.) Ablilites: large creature, crushing grip (much like the treant the kraken will grab the target he's attacking but unlike the treant the kraken keeps tightening his grip each turn causing minor damage to the target.)
upgrade - Deep Kraken - Ablilites: + hurl (Activated Ability. The Deep Kraken can pick up a target [can not be a large creature] and hurl them at another target causing damage to both targets. Only able to use once per combat.)
7) Sea Serpent - (Giving that there is only one lvl 7 shooter in Homm 5 thus far I thought it important this one be a shooter as well. Plus no dragon in the history of the Homm series as ever spewed fireballs across a map so I thought this dragon like creature being a shooter would be unique. I picture its attacks being powerful blasts of water.) Ablilites: large creature, shooter, ranged stun (Sea Serpent is able to stun its targets with its ranged attacks causing the target's initiative to decrease.)
uprgade - Leviathan - Ablilites: + area attack
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 01, 2006 08:47 AM |
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Here is a quick Naga sketch
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted October 01, 2006 09:49 AM |
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In the myth of creation Shalassa (dragon of water), the patron of the naga is said to be worshiped by sailors, fishermen, pirates, prophets, hermits and wisemen. So I don't think that the naga hero can be a sorcerer\sorceress. The worshipers of Sylath, the free cities of the east might have a sorcerer hero.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 01, 2006 10:20 AM |
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I realy like your sketch actionjack, although the torso could be a little more reptilian.
I also like the idea of calling this town a Bastion, if only to have a temporary name. Still this is the best name so far and it is quite workable.
As far as the Masterpost goes, when we're further down the road of development I'll turn the First Reaction (my intro) into the Masterpost. But it's a little early to do this.
It's true that the name of the Dragon of Water is almost certainly Shalassa, though it is never confirmed to be it is deductable from the Vessel of Shalassa spell.
As for our creatures, I have a few comments to make.
Firstly the Viper - Cobra parts in the Templar name are indicates of their ranks, that's why I used it as the second part of the name. The Vipers are lower class officers, while Cobras are more highranking officers, that aside of their possible physical resemblance .
Secondly, I kindly ask to stop spelling Coatl with a U. If we keep the U in, the name refers to nothing and it is less pronouncable; while if we spell it without a U, it refers to the winged snake god of the Sky of the Incas, Quetzalcoatl, aside from being more pronouncable.
Thirdly, why did the Naga Gladiotor- Naga Preatorian combo turn into Naga Preatorian - Naga Archon. I realy liked the first combo, because gladiators are good fighters and preatorian is the Roman Imperial guard. This upgrade makes more sense than turning from an Imperial guard to an Archon, which is the ruler of a ancient Greek Citystate. So it makes more sense if we stick to the first combo.
Lastly, if we want the Lizardmen not to use bows, it might me a nice idea to have them use blow-darts (has been suggested before I believe). Blow-darts are more inline of our Maya/Inca theme and it's quite original.
As for the matter of making the Naga Neutral, the swamp is an ideal setting for a neutral race. Swamps are places of solitude and therefor the ideal place to reside if you want nothing to do with any other races. Besides I don't think that Neutral in the sense of interacting with any race, is verry workable or sensible. It would be rather stupid to behave such towards Demons, because they are only interested in destruction and will destroy you before you could realy interact with them.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted October 01, 2006 10:32 AM |
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Edited by Sindbad at 13:57, 01 Oct 2006.
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Im not helping you anymore. Its already stupid.
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Already gone...
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted October 01, 2006 01:03 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 13:05, 01 Oct 2006.
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Ahhh, after 15 days of painful net-death, I rise again!
Just wanted to show support for you guys making a naga town. I'm kinda exhausted from the Perfect Stronghold, but perhaps I'll catch up with naga stuff soon... Hope you'll leave the door open for me
Anyways, it's so cool that our Stronghold was taken into consideration... Frankly, I never even expected that. I just wanted us to have fun
EDIT: Wtf is wrong with Sindbad?
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted October 01, 2006 02:02 PM |
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Oh, just nobody respects any of my ideas...
I mean this town is already becoming far away from my naga town and I cant do anything about it. So I better stay with mine and dont lose time with this.
And the same is in other threads. I have absolutely no might to change anything. I better stick with my own plans...
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Already gone...
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SBlister
Famous Hero
Rakshasa Commander
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posted October 01, 2006 02:14 PM |
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Edited by SBlister at 14:38, 01 Oct 2006.
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Cool drawing action jack. It would be nice if it was more reptillian but its good nevertheless. Ah Shalassa is the water dragon. Her name suits her very well. sounds very snake like too. War-Overlord, ah i see where you're going with the viper cobra name. Forget bout the "u" in coatl, i'm gonna make a lot of mindless typos and if u see a "u" just ignore it cuz i have no problems with spelling it without a "u". Gladiator-Praetorian it is then... Here's one problem using a blow dart, how can a small dart hurt creatures like the undead spectral dragon who have no vital organs to pierce. That's why I suggest using spears. They are large and cause serious damage. Maybe blow dart can be a special ability of some sorts.
Hey Baklava. Long time no see. Yeah our Stronghold was sent to the development team and I for one am real proud. It all paid off in the end. The doors always open for you to help us make the naga "bastion".
And to answer your final question, no one knows what is wrong with sinbad. no one...
EDIT: The actual spelling is Couatl. But then again many ppl use coatl as well.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 01, 2006 03:38 PM |
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Quote:
Here's one problem using a blow dart, how can a small dart hurt creatures like the undead spectral dragon who have no vital organs to pierce. That's why I suggest using spears. They are large and cause serious damage. Maybe blow dart can be a special ability of some sorts.
The whole idea of blow-darts is that they are not realy damaging on their own, but the stuff they are dipped in and transfer via the darts is the thing that kill the target. Most darts are dipped in poison and it's the poison that kill the target. Personally I was thing of giving the Lizarmen some kind corrosive saliva, which they use on their darts before they shoot. That way the spit eats away anything that they hit, which would help damage creatures like your necro dragon. Just an idea.
Quote:
EDIT: The actual spelling is Couatl.
Sez who ? I cannot find it spelled like that anywhere, except for the Cuoatl of Blizzard, but the point was that we don't want to be similar to them. So let's stick to spelling it without the U.
Since we've kinda agreed on the creatures line-up, it's about that time we should start thinking about abilities. SBlister made a good start, but like he said, it lacked about 9-11 skills. SO here is my attempt
1 Serpent Fly (Flyer) - Coatl (Flyer, Weakenning Bite(cast weakness on attack(in honor of the Dragon Flies of HoMM 3)))
2 Tracker(Shooter, Corrosive Shot(Decreases Armour over time)) - Sniper (Shooter, Corrosive Shot, Exact Aim(Halves Range Penalty))
3 Templar Viper (First Strike) - Templar Cobra (First Strike, Meditate(Gives up this turn, to double stats for the next))
4 Sentinel (Large, Enraged, Deathroll(Sentinal has X% chance to avoid attack by rolling to adjecent tiles)) - Grand Sentinal (Large, Enraged, Deathroll, Petrifying Gaze)
5 Gladiator (Large, Double Attack) - Preatorian (Large, Double Attack, No Retaliation)
6 Priestess (Shooter, Caster) - High Priestess (Shooter, Caster, Geyser(Similar to SBlister's wrath, but with a geyser))
7 Water Wyrm (Large, Flyer, Tidal Wave(Creates a giant wave the Damages all creatures in front of Water Wyrm(4 tiles wide ?)))- Water Dragon (Large, Flyer, Tidal Wave, Divine Presence)
PS.
The Problem with Sinbad is that is cannot post anything constructive; he only critizes and naggs.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted October 01, 2006 05:22 PM |
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You really dont know whats with me? That just proves you are selfish and havent been even thinking whats with me! But nevermind... Doesnt matter... Nobody cares that Im moody... But thats simply me - I always make enemies of my friends somehow, but I usually dont care, because I dont want friends that dont want to be friends. I always stay neutral...
But lets be optimistic! 
I dont care about this naga town! I have my own and Im happy!
And one more thing: Im having a new avatar soon, so you can see quite exactly how I would be looking at you.
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Already gone...
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WilX
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 01, 2006 05:51 PM |
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Quote:
You really dont know whats with me? That just proves you are selfish and havent been even thinking whats with me! But nevermind... Doesnt matter... Nobody cares that Im moody... But thats simply me - I always make enemies of my friends somehow, but I usually dont care, because I dont want friends that dont want to be friends. I always stay neutral...
But lets be optimistic!
I dont care about this naga town! I have my own and Im happy!
And one more thing: Im having a new avatar soon, so you can see quite exactly how I would be looking at you.
Sinbad I agree with you. I feel like my ideas are not being respected as well, and exactly like you I have my own Naga town which fits much better with the game then the direction this town is headed. So I care very little, I figured I'd try to help since I didn't get to help on the last one, but if my help in unwanted what am I going to do?
None the less, I am satisfied with the advice I offered. And I don't regret abandoning this thread now.
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