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| Thread: Necromancy Calculator (with dark energy) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted January 30, 2007 07:54 AM |
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Necromancy Calculator (with dark energy)
confused by the new necromancy ability try this web page.....
Necromancy Calculator
enjoy
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dschingi
Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
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posted January 30, 2007 09:43 AM |
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Edited by dschingi at 09:53, 30 Jan 2007.
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Ms Office Web Components???
This page requires either IE or Microsoft Web Office XP Components (btw the link is wrong) It is very nice that you make such an effort to create a web application for us, but this way you make it platform-dependent for Windows only! There are so many other beautiful ways to do it, like php, javascript, perl etc.
I haven't seen the calculator so I can't judge which would be the best, but starting with php is never wrong as it is very easy to learn 
edit: Here is how I see the page, in case you don't know what I'm talking about
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open source for an open mind
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sfidanza
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 30, 2007 10:32 AM |
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Edited by sfidanza at 10:42, 30 Jan 2007.
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I second that. The initiative is nice, but even IE6/7 cannot display it. Excel import is blocked by server authentication. And the technology is clearly not the good one.
If you're interested, the calculations details have been given by Alcibiades on this page:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=21015&pagenumber=4
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted January 30, 2007 10:47 AM |
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Quote:
I second that. The initiative is nice, but even IE6/7 cannot display it.
Mozilla can't display it too...
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 30, 2007 11:25 AM |
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I'm preparing some more charts to give the numbers. However, I have a fealing that the numbers in the spreadsheet are not true! There's something that seems very fishy to me! I'll try to find some information on the official forum, otherwise we'll have to test to confirm this.
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What will happen now?
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted January 30, 2007 11:26 AM |
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Quote:
However, I have a fealing that the numbers in the spreadsheet are not true! There's something that seems very fishy to me!
like what
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 30, 2007 11:28 AM |
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At least now that the patch is out, we can test it right?
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted January 30, 2007 11:40 AM |
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I get a feeling I will miss the old Necro
But this one is waaaay better
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 30, 2007 11:57 AM |
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Dark Energy and Necromancy Information
Necromancy allows you to resurrect fallen enemy units on a HP per HP basis. Number of resurrected creatures depend on Necromancy level:
Basic: 20 % HP resurrected.
Advanced: 30 % HP resurrected.
Expert: 40 % HP resurrected.
Ultimate: 50 % HP resurrected.
Necromancy percentage is still affected by buildings and artifacts like previously. (Thanx for clarifying this Sfidanza).
The type of creatures resurrected depends on the type of creature killed, as per the tables below (previously posted in other thread). Undead, Elemental and Mechanical creatures cannot be resurrected.
Resurrecting creatures taps Dark Energy (DE) depending on the creature type. The DE cost is the Power value of the resurrected creature divided by 25. The values are shown in the table below (previously posted in other thread).
The amount of DE is determined by Necromancy Skill, Town Buildings and Hero Level. The DE is replenished each weak with no saving - unused DE is lost. The DE pool is shared by all your heroes: They all contribute to your weekly DE total, and all draw from this pool for raising creatures. (Thanx for clarifying the latter, Sfidanza)
Note about the Hero bonus: the description of the CE Forum writes:
Hero Bonus = HeroLevelCoefficient x 1 (basic); x2 (advanced); x3 (expert); x4 (ultimate).
That yields the numbers below. However, Fiur has interpreted this as Basic = HLCoefficient, Advanced = 2 x Basic, Expert = 3 x Advanced, and Ultimate = 4 x Expert. This, I'm convinced, is wrong, because that means that Ultimate = 24 x HLCoefficient - thus, at level 25, Expert bonus according to Fiur is 396 while Ultimate bonus is 1584 (!) which seems well much.
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What will happen now?
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted January 30, 2007 12:00 PM |
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okay, I understand now. Thanks
EDIT: also, why everybody thinks Undead creatures can't be ressurected? I mean, they should be the 1st raised creatures, no?!? Just use Raise Dead
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sfidanza
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 30, 2007 01:52 PM |
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Edited by sfidanza at 13:53, 30 Jan 2007.
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Alcibiades, thanks for reposting in this thread, with all explanations.
I have a few things to add:
- the DE pool is shared by all your heroes: they all contribute to your weekly DE total, and all draw from this pool for raising creatures
- the Necromancy%, deciding how much HP can be raised, is still boosted by Pillars of Bones (+10% each), grail building (+50%), and the Necromancer's Pendant artifact (+10%)
- All these figures are stored in the DefaultStats.xdb file for easy modding!! Including all the transform table to know which creature is raised into which!!! The only parameter I didn't found there is the fact that hero DE bonus starts to increase on level 7 only.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 30, 2007 01:56 PM |
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Quote:
I have a few things to add:
- the DE pool is shared by all your heroes: they all contribute to your weekly DE total, and all draw from this pool for raising creatures.
Thanx for clarifying this Sfidanza - I did not know that! That does make Pillar Of Bones much less powerfull than I thought it was, however!
Quote:
- All these figures are stored in the DefaultStats.xdb file for easy modding!! Including all the transform table to know which creature is raised into which!!! The only parameter I didn't found there is the fact that hero DE bonus starts to increase on level 7 only.
Wooooow - that's great news! *will rush immediately to change certain illogical upgrades*
For those interested, there's a small MOD here that changes the following creature connections:
Pit Fiend: Wraith -> Wight. Was changed in final version.
Minotaur: Zombie -> Plague Zombie.
Grim Raider: Vampire -> Vampire Lord.
Hydra: Ghost -> Spectre.
Sprite: Spectre -> Ghost.
Djinn: Wight -> Spectre.
Djinn Sultan: Wight -> Spectre.
Rakshasa Rani: Wraith -> Wight. Was changed in final version.
Skirmisher: Zombie -> Skeleton Archer.
Spearwielder: Zombie -> Skeleton Archer.
Rune Priest: Archlich -> Lich.
Thane: Wraith -> Wight.
Vindicator: Zombie -> Plague Zombie.
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What will happen now?
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 30, 2007 02:35 PM |
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Great! Alcibiades what is your first impression of the balance? I am still a little worried, and i can't try it because it hasn't been changed yet in 1.41..
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 30, 2007 02:48 PM |
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I haven't played it yet, because I'm still on the original campaigns. However, a quick numerical analysis tells me the following:
A level 20 Hero with Expert Necromancy and 1 town with Pillar of Bones will have 200 + 150 + 132 DE = 482 DE. That will allow him to raise 145 Skeleton Archers, or roughly 2 Wraiths, 2 Powerliches, 2 Vampire Lords, 3 Spectres, and a handful of Zombies and Skeleton Archers.
Since the actual amount of DE in the game is going to be depending on a lot of different things and will change during the game, these numbers doesn't tell too much. Still, it gives an estimate of what kind of numbers to expect, and without being able to say too much, I think it looks reasonable - I do expect, however, to meat an awful lot of Wraiths, suddenly!
I also think the numbers underscore the fact that Necromancy will play a much less important role in early game compared to previously - and you will definitely be depending on those Pillars of Bones to get it running - which will mean that the previous strategy of Necropolis rushing will no longer work - which of course is great news. In fact, Necropolis will probably be very vulnerable towards early rushes that hit them before they start to get Necromancy working for real.
Furthermore, as others have pointed out, the importance of the mid-level units (especially Spectres) is going to increase dramatically, and I wonder whether the recent and quite significant boost of this particular unit (+50 % HP?) is going to provide trouble with the new system. However, I know that only gameplay will tell.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted January 30, 2007 02:53 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 17:10, 30 Jan 2007.
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Good work Alc
I think we can use one table for the creatures:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o262/VokialBG/DECost_1.jpg
New unfinished version.
EDIT:
The new version is here:
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 30, 2007 03:03 PM |
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Excellent chart Vokial! Especially when you finish with the different levels of Necromancy! I think the Cavalry is placed in the wrong line (Vampire should be Vampire Lord, right?). Also, Rakshasa Rani and Pit Fiend yield Wight rather than Wraith in contrary to previous inforation.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted January 30, 2007 03:08 PM |
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OK, I'll fix the problem 
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted January 30, 2007 03:33 PM |
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The calculator idea is really great. If the calculations are correct it is very helpful. Great idea
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sfidanza
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 30, 2007 04:25 PM |
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Quote:
Also, Rakshasa Rani and Pit Fiend yield Wight rather than Wraith in contrary to previous inforation.
You're right on Pit Fiend, but Rakshasa Rani is raised into Wraith, not Wight. (?)
@Alcibiades and Vokial: I'll definitely make charts like yours in the 2.1 manual update I'm working on right now. I'll have to test various forms, and your great work come in really handy to help me do that. Thanks guys. Keep the ideas coming!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 30, 2007 04:42 PM |
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Quote:
You're right on Pit Fiend, but Rakshasa Rani is raised into Wraith, not Wight. (?)
When I look again, that's true. I suppose I must have had a cross-over between Djinn and Rakshasa when I looked for it then.
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