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| Thread: hmm4 monsters |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted November 10, 2001 01:47 AM |
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Quote:
i didnt rank them by how real they are, i ranked them by how cool they are. liches in h2, although obviously not as real as in h3, look cooler IMO.
"Mummies: in h2 they walk "too loud" and have a strange face.The h3 type is slim and bears the royal marks, their only fault is in their ffwd walk.Nothing wrong in the help of a staff. "
walk too loud?!?! wtf... there noises were cool.. when they got hurt they said "ahh!" and when they attacked, they made a cool sound too... also, they are not as realistic but better...
skeletons also walk better and look cooler in h2.
in short, h3 had more realism, but h2 was cooler.
Well, in my opinion realistic means cool; you can have a cool creature that's not realistic but not vice-versa.
As 'bout the mummies, in h4 they seem to be something between my taste and yours. So let there be peace. For now.
Also, don't you think that a dark sky or a bit of smoke would have suited the Necropolis in h4? It was dark in your h2 and in my h3, so it should continue to be dark...
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted November 13, 2001 02:06 AM |
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If they removed the vampires, then this is the end of the world!
(Sorry, but I have to post this on every thread I enter!)
Kick out the cactus and bow down to the vampire!
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted November 15, 2001 02:59 AM |
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I just found out that the release date is again postponed to March 15'th.So the guys from 3do have plenty of time for changes.This is the list of monsters that I would work on.
A MUST change:
1.Dragon golems - I say kick them out.
2.Vampires - new looks for the best unit
3.Leprechaun - remove the funny figure
4.Pirate - redesign the outfit
5.Waspworth - maybe dendroids would do better
A SHOULD change:
1.Behemots - wipe that monkey face
2.Mantis - too real to fit;more imagination would do the job
3.Sea Monster - now, this is too much imagination
4.Unicorn - un-colored hair would be enough to improve them
However, I still have to say that on the adventure map they've done a wonderful job; I will pardon some of their mistake for that; still they have to do better.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 15, 2001 03:56 AM |
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Musts:
1. Just remove the rider.
2. No thanks! Keep the look!
3. No thanks! Keep the look!
4. No thanks! Keep the look!
5. Don't really see why. It's a unique looking monster in any case.
Shoulds:
1. No need to change.
2. Don't see why.
3. Too much imagination? That's not possible!
4. No need to change.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted November 15, 2001 05:45 PM |
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well, it seems i do not come here often
....but at least i speak my mouth as much as i have to say.
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and i just read what must be the best thing i have ever seen in this forum:
Quote:
I love entering in a world of fantasy (not necesary "bloody" as mentioned above) when playing and the music of the game is so apropiate to feel like that. Is one way to relax myself almost like I love hiking on the mountains just to run away from civilisation(cars,TV,polution,etc.) for some moments...and if I am going to find some guys on the top of some mountain with a portable TV (or a noisy stereo) it will spoil my entire day.
wow, that gets straight to the point.. and i don't want a knight drinking coca-cola on the homm4-style battlefield, although the colors of the bottle might suit the colors in the game and that way the knight might look more civilized than other creatures, thus offering variety.
the homm4 landscape and most of the creatures look great with their early renaissance style, but teh style of some pieces of graphics are extremely out of place imho. e.g. the picturesque buildings on the world map with smoothly-rendered much too perfect surface and with smoothly-rendered perfect glow that should be impossible to achieve in a hand-drawn picture. change those buildings to fit the landscape or change the landscape and all the other graphics to fit the smoothly-rendered buildings, i say. it's juat a matter of special effects and textures, i say. just like changing the tiled walls to smooth ones (not perfectly smooth, but hand-drawn style smooth), because i do not recall any paintings of that time where the walls were tiled the same way as in homm4. i guess the walls that we would call 'tiled' were smooth enough for the medieval ppl and it is possible that the tiled appearance of the old castle walls has increased over the centuries because of decay.
and about the creatures: imho it is obligatory that the creatures of the same town fit together. and it's even better if the creatures of different towns don't fit together in an appropriate way. i.e. the look of the barbarians in the mix of creatures of any of the civilized towns should inspire you to think that the barbarians would be ridiculed by the fighters of the other towns because of their illiteracy and general stupidity, their cheap clothing, and because they stink. on the other hand, the noble fighters of the other towns would be ridiculed in the mix of barbarians because of their snobism and their interest in "useless" lore rather than relying on raw muscle power and courage in a fight like is appropriate to a "real" fighter. and e.g. with the vampires it's exactly the same: they make me think that they would not be considered sane persons in the early renassance context because of their unseen ways of understanding the way it is appropriate for a noble to dress himself. we might keep in mind that the ppl of those times probably could not foresee the fashion of clothing that will become popular many centuries later.
i totally agree with the statement that gray color of the necro town means variety. i have nothing against the preserve, but when i am in the mood for necro.. elves and other nervous ppl, get out of my face! necro is the town of peace of mind, actually no mind at all, bright colors and the personal goals of the living creatures have no meaning for the dead.
and.. actually i don't think it's obligatory that the vampires look exactly like the historical vlad the impaler, but they should suit the style of the rest of the game just like i would not like to see knights that drink coca-cola in the game or a portable tv or stereo when hiking in the mountains in rl like mikai described. well, same for other creatures, of course.
and the statement about medieval and antique ages being dark mythological rather than more modern times was a very good one. and that's the best reasoning there could be to place the fantasy creatures in these times.
and.. the details that are present in the large picture will influence the small picture quite a bit, no doubt about it. the small picture will be large enough. just one thing.. imho the faces of the rogue, angel, etc are great and contribute to the atmosphere of renaissance style paintings.
and here is the list of creatures who are a must to change imho:
1. dragon golem - i once saw a screenshot of a completely different style orange-colored (copper rather) dragon golem (without the engineer, btw) that would be more or less tolerable imho.
2. venom spawn - that just looks like a poor excuse of a monster graphics with it's snot-like appearance.
3. pirate - also, imho everything that resembles firearms should be removed.
4. thunderbird - huh, the rocks should suit the barbarians much better. or thunderbirds with more rock-like appearance. the present thunderbirds look like one of the "snob" races rather than one of the barbarians.
5. vampire - ridiculous fashion geek from the medieval point of view.
6. mummy - why not sth in between homm2 and homm4 mummy? more toilet paper, please. the 3do ppl wouldn't be short of it when they would have to mummify their boss, would they?
7. bone dragon - any necromancer should know that the front legs do not come out of the ribs! in the front part of the body below the neck there is muscle, no need to fill it with ribs!
8. zombie - why should a zombie be green? is it a goblin zombie or what?
and should change:
mantis - too real, no fantasy except their larger size, also, i can see modern biology in action here.
trolls - just remove the trolls from the game and call those creatures starved-green-men. trolls should be associated with size and strength, shouldn't they?
leprechauns - they like thievery and trickery, not melee as far as i understand. if they are to do anything but cast luck on the battlefield, they are completely out of place imho.
i disagree:
the behemoths - just enough stupid to suit the barbarians. they might look a bit more massive, though.
sea monster - i agree it would be nice if it was changed, because the medieval sea monster pictures were quite different. but i completely disagree about the creativity. have you ever seen pictures of deep water fish? no real creativity in the sea monster, imho.
unicorn - they look ok conceptually imho, and the rainbow mane is probably reasoned with some luck-oriented ability. and the hair near their hoofs also looked nice, but i am not agonizing over it's removal. the only thing that might need some (very slight) tweaking is the way the hind legs are connected to the body, making them look like a doll stuffed with sawdust.
faery dragon of homm3 - there was an explanation that their looks were deceiving, so they were bit more ok imho than some other ppl said here. but i don't think they would suit the homm4 with exactly the same looks as in homm3. i wuould expect sth with the attitude of imp and fairy of homm4.
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i am absolutely sure that i am forgetting sth, but i guess it doesn't matter. and imho the change in graphics, mostly textures and rendering effects (with a few exceptions) would not be a too heavy change. the fundamental change would be the change in the attitude of the game designers from ecclectics to a more strictly determined style. too bad if such otherways great graphical environment is spoiled by a few pieces of graphics that create an unsavoury combination with the rest of the environment!
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted November 15, 2001 06:11 PM |
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and one of the more significant style issues imho, i.e. a must change imho:
the minotaur - i would rename the present minotaur 'a spooky anarchist's teddy-bear.' and it's not only about the large picture, the shape of their nose attracts a lot of attention in the combat screenshots either. and i suspect it will just get more detailed when i can see it in animated form. i wonder why the hell did they exclude this kind of attitude with the minotaur?
 or maybe  as can be seen in the concept art would have been much better imho.
and there are enough good medieval paintings of bulls that have a completely different style than the present minotaur and that don't look like a teddy bear at all. i havn't gotten used to the appearance of the homm3 wolves and hell hounds that look like some evil inferno teddy-bears, so the appearance of the minotaur makes me worry a bit.
if they have to look like teddy-bears, just call them teddy-bears, not homm4 minotaurs or homm3 wolves.
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the different style dragon golem i was talking about is here:
http://www.hmm4.com/screens/combat/pic_11.htm
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and the picturesquely-rendered building examples are here (only possible by means of computer graphics, i guess):
http://www.hmm4.com/images/large/mapshot23_1024_768.jpg
btw the morale bird of homm3 and homm4 also falls to the same category, the homm2 bird was very good imho.
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and the bone dragon with forelegs coming out of ribs:
http://www.hmm4.com/screens/monsters/pic_9.htm
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted November 16, 2001 02:04 AM |
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Oh, I completely forgot about venom spawn; it's dreadfull.
Djive, now I know what your problem is now: you are too fond of technology; you should put it aside when playing hmm. You support all the smart-dressed creatures. And perhaps we'll see Cokes around real soon. Pepsi too, then, no offense, I like it better...he....
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 16, 2001 03:33 AM |
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Smart-dressed and Coke/Pepsi????
They are contradictions in terms. I do not know Coke/Pepsi drinkers for being well-dressed. What I'm talking is style, which is something I'd never attribute to Coke/Pepsi.
The model of the Venom Spawn looks bad. It's not bad in the battle-field, being shrunk down removes many of the defects in the model. The "fluorscent" green goes well with undead units. It has a certain tang to it which many people recognize as eerie, and is thus appropriate. Besides it goes well with the Ghost.
Your problem seems to be: Any model which is conceived as evil must be ugly, look grim, and be clothed in shades of dull grey.
Any sign of style, charisma, colour and handsomeness is banned. You could wonder what motivates creatures to side with evil? In many cases either strength and power, or charm and attrictiveness are lures used by evil to attract followers.
The ugly: You're so sweet. It's disgusting!
The sweet: What's the benefit in being ugly?
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted November 16, 2001 03:44 AM |
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The venom spawn should remind us from it's position of a necro or a demon; it doesn't, so it's not representative for necropolis; you can't motivate it's appearance only by it's color.
And let's make the distinction between un-dead and demoniacs. The later are supposed indeed to be quite styled and attractive but the necros are supposed to be ugly and repulsive and UN-DEAD.This in terms of appearance means gray, dull and scary.It's supposed to frighten not charm people.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted November 16, 2001 12:47 PM |
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actually, i don't get it at all what you guys are talking about this uglyness.
especially.. do you want funeral ceremonies look like a samba carnival or what? the gray colors are used so that our peace of mind is not distracted by bright colors while we think about those who have died. btw in many cases rl ppl who live near graveyards like to walk there, because the graveyard is a quiet and peaceful place. i guess that has to do with the less nervous environment (including gray colors) rather than because the graveyard or the dead are ugly.
????????
is my avatar ugly too? i know.. it's a bit decayed, so that the eyes look bit strange, and the head doesn't stand straight.. but it's just natural decay, clavius just couldn't help it.. but even from the point of view of the living ppl, it's a very noble face.. and a peaceful one.. just calm down and forget about what ppl have to look like.
in the end, all ppl will look the same, no need to worry about it then.
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but ppl can look noble without wearing a 17-th..20-th century suit! and in the 14..15-th century, i am pretty sure that any man dressed in the best suit appropriate in the 20-th century would have looked like a FOOL!
FOOL, FOOL, FOOL!
should the vampire look like a fool?
you get it?
it's not a question of looking ugly and fearsome vs noble and civilized.
ppl dressed well and appropriately for a noble in the times when coca-cola (and even pepsi-cola), the suits, and the president of the usa were not invented yet, at least from the point of view of the ppl that lived in those times.
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
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posted November 16, 2001 02:21 PM |
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Whew! Quite the heated argument going on here! Here's my take on things:
I pretty much agree with those of you who have critisized the graphics of creatures. Most of them look too, how should I put it, 3D rendered (don't get me wrong, I'm not objecting to the fact that they are 3D-rendered, just that when you see them, you (or I, at least  ) instantly think computers and 3D rendering. It takes the "fantastic" (as in fantasy) feel of the game, in my opinion. It's a bit like "how shiny can we make them look?" to me. Take the poor halfling. He looks like he's on a heavy trip! Glassy eyes with dilated pupils! What were they thinking! And the unicorn turns my stomach as well. My little pony indeed!
And all the horses and canine creatures look like they could use a diet and some real anatomics! Blah!
Horses (and unicorns, etc.) are supposed to look fierce and powerful, yet slim and agile. They should have long legs, sleek necks and not look like a Belgian Blue!
Same goes for wolves. They should be a bit skinny (that doesn't make them any less ferocious, rather more so!), the wolf in HOMMII wasn't too bad, in homm three it looked like a lost puppy and the screenshots from HOMMIV says it will look like a fat lost puppy. So there's a decending curve here.
All in all, I have been mostly disappointed with the glossy look of the graphics in HOMMIV. But I guess I can't say for sure until I've played the game.
Now, to the original topic:
On the issue of the vampire, I'm undecided. I can see the suit look going both ways. But Vlad, I really disagree with your views on leprechauns. Those guys are what really makes the game worth while!
What I mean is:
One of the things that appeal most to the human (or the western civilized human) psyche, is when your ordinary chap elevates beyond his abilities in order to overcome seemingly insurmountable adversity. That's what's so great about LOTR.
In my opinion you need people that aren't usually warriors, to indentify and sympathize with.
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted November 16, 2001 07:36 PM |
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argh, the phoenix  (larger picture of homm4 phoenix) is one of the ugly creatures imho. just like some lava bird from some very old flight simulator, at least it's style and shape look sth like that.
btw, the homm2 phoenix
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if some ppl havn't seen it. looks great imho, with glitter on it's feathers moving in a flame-like way.
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted November 16, 2001 07:41 PM |
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did someone mentioned LOTR?
where? who? what? when?
..oh, on topic... do not judge the graphics before the game is out... (of course then it will be very late...)
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted November 16, 2001 08:10 PM |
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even better, if you havn't seen the greatest vampire of all times (imho), with proud nobility and bat-likeness all in one (well, only thing i could complain about is his bit overly large shoe size), or are interested in checking out other homm2 creatures, just found http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/mgenae/mightmagic/homm2/index.html after some search (quite a nice page, imho). click on image of a town and threre you go.
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted November 17, 2001 01:07 AM |
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it's not a fight about ugliness, mainly. I am simply stating how a necro must look. He sure doesn't praise style and fashion, since he has no problems walking with his rotten corpse and worms up his nose. So vampire is out of context.Also there would be a competition between necros and demoniacs. Since necros live in our world and demoniacs in the underworld, they should fight over the corpses. Necros return the corpses in this world, bringing back their soul ( removing some of it's features though) while the demoniacs take it under to their world. A castle with both of these races would end up in a general mess after quarrels. So I'm also against mixing up.
But, to return to the vampire: there is absolutely, but absolutely no reason on earth to make him look like that (some of us like it Christopher Lee-type; then I can recomend them some nice movies with him, but hmm4 is not a type-B movie, OK?).
SO, CHANGE THE VAMPIRE !!!!!
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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