|
| Thread: 3DO !!! Some Creature Looks MUST Be Changed! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Darion
Promising
Famous Hero
|
posted November 21, 2001 03:38 AM |
|
|
Go back to your King's Bounty then. Graphics sometimes distinguish not just whether or not the game is good or not, but will oftentimes determine it's selling capability.... good graphics sell, though the gamplay itself is sometimes crappy, and bad graphics don't sell as well no matter how good the gameplay may be.
Plus, I love the game 10x more when it has appealing pretty creatures... then I eat, drink, sleep Homm 24/7.
____________
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
posted November 22, 2001 12:11 AM |
|
|
Yeah, right, and if the icing is stinking you will eat the cake, right?
I don't know about civ2, but graphics in heroes is worth a lot more then just the topping...first time I played h2 it was only for the graphics...else it would be just another game...
____________
MANE, TEKEL, FARES
|
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 22, 2001 12:21 AM |
|
|
|
So I assume then Vlad that you will not be buying H4 because you do not like the graphics?
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
posted November 22, 2001 12:26 AM |
|
|
Quote:
So I assume then Vlad that you will not be buying H4 because you do not like the graphics?
I didn't say I don't like the graphics...the map and the battlescreen are wonderful...also a lot of monsters are ok, but some of them are a shock to me....they are so ugly that they'll spoil the whole picture they'll be in...
____________
MANE, TEKEL, FARES
|
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 22, 2001 02:04 AM |
|
|
|
Well considering you love the battle screen, and the only time you ever see the pictures of the monsters is on the battlescreen, you can't dislike them too much.
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
posted November 22, 2001 10:51 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Well considering you love the battle screen, and the only time you ever see the pictures of the monsters is on the battlescreen, you can't dislike them too much.
Come on, you know that's not what I meant...
____________
MANE, TEKEL, FARES
|
|
Coldfyrius
Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
|
|
posted November 23, 2001 07:51 PM |
|
|
Why don't I play King's Bounty?
1) I don't have it.
2) It's out of print.
3) HOMM3 is an excellent game, and there's no reason to switch over to KB.
Plus, your actual point makes little sense. Your logic seems to be "Bad graphics, ergo low sales, ergo bad game."
Bad graphhics may cause low sales, but people who have bought the previous games will spring for it regardless.
Low sales making the game bad is absurd. This is what's known as the "Democratic Fallacy." It's very common. The essential thrust of it is that something is true because most people think so. If you look at the history of elections, you can see that this is not the case.
____________
"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen
|
|
DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
|
|
posted November 23, 2001 08:12 PM |
|
|
Coldfyrius: 1)& 2) Kings Bounty is freeware. You can download it at hmm4.com's classics page
And I think you need to ease up a bit on the artists, guys. I think they've tried. We don't like it. I think the effective approach is "Well, it looks cool, just not fit for HOMM, try something else" rather than "this artist is crap! He should be fired! He's not even half talented!"
Of course he/they is/are talented! Could any of you guys model creatures like that? I know I couldn't! And if you could, please do and show them, then we can have great-looking creatures in HOMMIV!
And CIV2 does not have crap graphics! Just because it's not the highest resolution or contains the most colors, doesn't mean the graphics suck! Whats important is that they've managed to design the game in a way so that people don't react negatively to it, and when the game is as good as CIV2, it's a success for sure.
____________
There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
|
|
andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 25, 2001 12:17 PM |
|
|
i think graphic does matter, but in the way that it must fit to the game, in heroes3 it does perfectly, in civ2 it does, in dungeon keeper and so on.
what i really hate is that 3D crap and that everything has to look "new and mordern" - it takes out the whole atmoshpere a classic like civ and battle isle 2 has...look what they did to dungeon keeper 2 and battle isle4 - i could throw up really, i really hate them and the new 3D engine, and i hate that heroes will go the same way.
also everything is more complicated thanks to those "great" new graphics, you often are lost on the screen... if you want realistic graphics, look outside the window! lol
|
|
Shadow_Phoenix
Known Hero
Shadow Ruler
|
|
posted November 25, 2001 06:01 PM |
|
|
Graphics aren't the mos important thing in a game - TRUE
Most 3D games are crap desguised with a good look - TRUE
That's why NWC shouldn't change the graphics engine in the first time. The good old h3 engine was pretty good, we had a very detailed look of very well drawn creatures. There was no reason to change it like they did.
|
|
Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
|
posted November 25, 2001 09:35 PM |
|
|
Now guys, I think that you went far in wrong direction here. Both of you, the ones who want the new graphics and the one who dilike the new graphics.
I personally think that the new graphic engine will rock. And why did they change it? Because they've changed the whole game engine.
See, this game was using the old HOMM1 engine, that was reworked and changed for every new sequel. Now they did all those new skill, town, creature choosing and so changes , so they needed new engine. And from the screens and the videos that I've seen, the game graphics look amazing. Now there can be tons of things animated, and the animations can be done simultaneously, more frames per animation can be executed, more colors. Is this important? Hell it is. Why? Because we're playing fantasy game. And how can I fel this fantasy world if not trough graphics and sound and feeling. The game must imerse me into that world. I must feel it existing, breathing.
But one thing that I disagree, is that they took wrong approach on some creatures when they've graphicaly designed them.
For example the Vampire. I really prefer the HOMM3 version of the Vampire. He wa looking like Murhnau's Nosferatu. But they choose to bring back that HOMM2 vampire, with the look of Dracula. I can't see how a guy with clotes from the end of the 18th century can fit into a game that's set in medieval world. This ruins the game. You can have superbly executed graphics. You can have the greatest engine in the world. You can have great immersion potential. But when you show me some silly creature apearance design, you ruin my game.
Now I agree that Vamprie looks silly for this world. BRING US BACK THAT HOMM3 VAMPIRE. The looks of the Troll? I have never seen sillier Troll. And that Cyclops, is he Cylops king? No, he's Cyclops shepard. And the Elf ???  ((
The artists at NWC that made the design for HOMM4, are exactely the same that worked on HOMM3. But they must take a serious look at those creature designs, before the game is shipped. And there is plenty of time intil the release, so I hope that things might change.
____________
--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
|
posted November 26, 2001 01:01 AM |
|
|
Svetac, you speak the truth!
I am marvelled: people have come to like the vampire because it is well dressed....it's insane!They forget that there is a history behind us and they live only in the present. Perhaps they assume that the suit and shoes have always been with us.They don't even know who Dracula was or how he looked, not to mention the period assumed for his life time...yet they keep pounding our ears: he's nice, he's classy, that's how a vampire must look...
And this is only a category of players, because others don't care....they have other "preferred" creatures and the rest of the monsters mean nothing to them! For this I don't even find my words...
____________
MANE, TEKEL, FARES
|
|
Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
|
|
posted November 26, 2001 01:50 AM |
|
Edited By: Svetac on 25 Nov 2001
|
You're right. We must not forget the history. Count Dracula lived for almost 500 years. Did he has those shiny shoes back in 1639? Why do we know him as such, with shiny shoes and black suit. Because the movies we saw with him were made in the beggining of the 20th century. And the stories if those movies were set at the beggining of the 20th century. Fransis For Copola's dracula shows us another view of him. There he is not an gentlemen, but rather weird looking guy. And also he show us how Dracula looked cenuries ago. And that's not a man with shiny shoes and black suit.
____________
--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
|
posted November 27, 2001 12:27 AM |
|
|
Their mistake comes from the fact that vampires have always been disguised as normal people, still noble ones. They've always worn the clothes specific to that age.Since the Stoker's Dracula came to the modern London of course he addopted their clothes. But in the age of heroes that outfit is not a disguise, but an point out sign:" Look at me...I come from the future...peace to you!"
____________
MANE, TEKEL, FARES
|
|
Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
|
|
posted November 27, 2001 04:07 AM |
|
|
Yes, that's the whole point here. If the Vampire should look medieval, he should look exactely like it's HOMM3 predecessor. When I say exactly, I don't mean it to be 100% copy, but the same style of the creature appearance must remain.
Why they changed it to the HOMM2 version? Because people thought it was cooler. And why do people think that the HOMM2 vampire is cooler? Because of the cool *blah* the HOMM2 vampire is producing. But this is a big confusion. This people are mixing up the appearance with the sound of the creature. You want your cool *blah* back into the game, go and ask for it. But don't ask for the same exact HOMM2 creature to come back.
The best solution to the problem here is as I said:
HOMM3 appearance & HOMM2 *blah* sound
____________
--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
|
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 27, 2001 09:10 PM |
|
|
Hmm....actually the clothing the vampire wears is not all that out of place in the world he is in. Remember this is not a medieval world, it's an alternate fantasy world with no relation to the real world. It's fashions have nothing to do with medieval fashions, and plenty of other people in the world of M&M have been seen wearing outfits that had a victorian feel to it.
The real mistake your making is a common one, thinking that fantasy world and medieval world is the same thing. But the two have nothing to do with each other. The world of heroes has it's own fashions, customs and cultures that have nothing to do with the middle ages.
|
|
Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
|
|
posted November 27, 2001 10:16 PM |
|
|
Hmm Niteshade, I think that there are some things that we must clear out here.
Fantasy doesn't mean reality, but wether we wanted or not is connected with reality. Fantasy can't exist without reality. Barbarians, , Crusaders, Champions. All those come from the reality. And even the mithological creatures have roots in reality. How? They were invented by real men.
And for the man during the history, it was always magical to create worlds. Mithological worlds. Worlds of Swords and Sorcery.
HoMM is such world. Mithological world. World that we live with. And sometimes as such, this world is our reality. But this world, as well as all the other mithological worlds is based on the reality. It's based on something that happened before. Wether this was the real existence of Knights, or it was the mithological existence of Dragons and Titans, that was writen by the wise predecessor of the modern man.
So everything has it's own place in the history. And that history as such is the expirience of all the mankind. And when we look at certain things we recall the history.
Now you mentioned Victorian clothes and stuff. The Victorian clothes are not the same as the suit of the late 19th century clothes. The Victorian clothes are set after the medieval world. But the 19th century suit belongs to another epoch in the history of mankind. And the 19th century suit is closely connected with invention, technology and science.
And now we all fought like mad when the Forge was announced. Why? Because we didn't wanted technology in the world of HOMM. Because it was fantasy medieval, or as you say also victorian world. So we didn't wanted technology in this Medieval/Victorian world. So why would we want then clothes from that mechanical epoch to enter in this world? Should we want them? No! Because it's simply part of another time, as well as the early tanks are part of another time.
I'm sure that we wouldn't want to see Musqeteer with a rifle in the world of HOMM. And the Musqeteer belonged to the 16th century. Than why the heck would we accept 19th century guy?
First Victorian time is not the same as technology time right? We do agree on this one I hope.
____________
--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
|
|
Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
|
|
posted November 27, 2001 10:37 PM |
|
|
I believe the point is that you don't need a 19th century tailor to make the Vampire's suit. A 12th century tailor could do it. All that is required is that the clothing is fashionable among the nobles.
On the other hand a 12th century weaponsmith can't make a 19th century pistol, and that is where the difference is.
Some things were common a lot earlier than many people believe. Cannons for instance are very old, the first are from the beginning of the 14th century. They were primitive and inaccurate, but they did exist very early.
You already have a clash between the ages when creatures existed. There has been only one Minotaur and Medusa and they're from Greek mythology and so didn't live at the same time as Crusaders and Champions.
When it comes to the fantasy (and I'm not counting the humans in the haven as fantasy) creatures we can actually notice that for most of them is clothing not an issue. They're either naked or are dressed only in a necklace or simlar.
____________
"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
|
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 27, 2001 10:41 PM |
|
|
Ah but there is the thing. We agree that technology has no place in a fantasy world (unless it's fantastic technology like golems, gnomish machines, and the like). But I don't agree that the fashion of the world of heroes has to correspond to the fashion of the middle ages. This is a world with elves, dwarves, vampires, giants, and dragons. Real world history is irrelevent to it. Even the units with some basis in real world units are still quite different. I don't know about you, but I've never heard of a medieval monk throwing bolts of energy. You also may want to check your history and look up what century the victorian era actually took place in. You say that the vampires clothes are not victorian because they look like they are from the 19th century. I hate to break it to you, but that's when the victorian era was.
Finaly, as I've said many times before you are way too concerned with how units look in the big oversized pictures which you will never see in the actual game. The big pictures are irrelevent. You will never see them again when the game comes out. What you should be looking at are the little pictures on the battlemap. Even in H3, the units tended to look really stupid when they were blown up like that, but once the game came out nobody cared about that any more because they got to see the units in the small size the way they were intended.
|
|
Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
|
|
posted November 27, 2001 11:47 PM |
|
|
actually, it's not a quiestion if the medieval tailor could have made the vampire suit in that sense imho, it's that he would not have made it. or even if he wuold have made such a fashion experiment, a good and noble vampire would probably never have worn sth like that. or if he would have worn it, he would have looked ridiculous. and that's it. the vampire looks ridiculous.
and it is the question about the medieval tailor and the noble lord who became the vampire, rather than a modern third class vampire movie or novel, because imho it is unsavoury to include modern times fantasy into a game that has always been about dark medieval times fantasy.
____________
what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
|
| |
|
|
