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| Thread: 3DO !!! Some Creature Looks MUST Be Changed! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted November 28, 2001 12:15 AM |
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Gerdash,
A medieval tailor would not have made that, but as I've said many times, Heroes is not a medieval world. It's a fantasy world with no relation to earth's medieval period aside from a similar level of technological advancement. Cultures and fashions are quite different, and there is no reason why a tailor could not make that suit if it was in style in that world, which it obviously is.
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Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
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posted November 28, 2001 12:36 AM |
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Niteshade, you're making the things topsy-turvy here.
How can you say that the fashion and clothings are not technology related? What kind of shoes do you wear now? Are those technologicaly produced?
Maybe they should put there modern vampire in bike jacket, or vampire with shorts and air jordan shoes?
The technology and culture go together, and coexist.
And no one, even Vampire woudln't appear in the middle of the battle in suit. They are going in war for Christs sake. And something war-like won't hurt them.
And fantasy worlds are all about atmosphere and illusion. Such vampire breaks the illusion and spoils the atmosphere.
That's what botters me. He's cheap look. No matter how small he would be on the battlefield.
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 28, 2001 12:46 PM |
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Edited By: Djive on 28 Nov 2001
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You'd be amazed by the artistery some of the shoemakers and tailors of old were capable of.
When it comes to clothing many tools have been made to speed up production, but tailors and shoemakers are able to do these things by hand. Some pieces of clothing are still only made by hand.
And it's a ridiculous notion that anyone can deduce on the shoes of that Vampire model (let alone on the battlefield version) whether or not they've been 'factory-made'.
If the tech level allows mages to construct golems and dragon golems then it certainly allow shoemakers to make decent shoes.
Fashion changes often on earth and is overall inpredictible. How about giving the designers of a brand new game-world some lee-way and let them decide what is fashionable in their game-world?
Normal clothing has long since ceased to be technology based. However, if you're instead talking about high quality armour and weapons then yes, this is technology based. The truth of the matter is that the vampire's outfit is many times more simple to make than the crusader's full armour equipment.
Technology and culture go together and co-exist, but the relevant culture is in this case Axeoth and not Earth. The tech level on Axeoth is fairly high or it would be impossible to create golems. (Earth in the middle ages were certainly not capable of producing such monsters.) You also have to allow for difference between Earth and Axeoth, becuase magic exists in Axeoth.
Just accept that some creatures goes into the battle well dressed. Just look at the female Alchemist. She isn't exactly dressed for battle is she? (Instead with that dress one could believe she's about to go to a classy place.)
Isn't every creature (except the humans in haven) dressed in what they would regularly wear? (Rather than in some invented battle-gear.)
The animations of the creatures are symbols and the purpose of the animation is to be candy for game play. (The game is about strategy, and it's not a combat simulator.)
Going by mythology a warlike dress would probably do nothing to help them either. The vampire doesn't rely on clothing for protection or for attacking.
The vampire doesn't spoil the illusion. It looks like a vampire and is easily recognizeable as such. The colouring is the expected one.
The vampire is not cheap looking. The clothing looks expensive and is well done, and by your own account the shoes looked so good that they couldn't have been made in the 12th century.
The H3 vampire on the other hand has dull grey clothing which is torn/tattered. That IS a cheap look.
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DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
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posted November 28, 2001 01:06 PM |
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I agree with Djive, at least her conclusion. The vampire is'nt the problem at all. And to you who're constantly complaining about people reading too much into the big art-pics, the equivalent pics in HOMMIII looked *much* better to me. And looking at the screenshots, my fears aren't exactly put to rest. The game looks disharmonic. Have you seen the adventure pics? You are almost blinded by neon colors! It's a mish-mash of different styles and textures thrown together at random. I favor the sober and natural (and yes, I've heard the argument about over-sized heroes, that's not what I'm talking about (besides, that didn't bother me at all)) look of HOMMIII greatly in comparison. I think the game looks like some sort of LEGO or PLAYMO game, instead of a fantasy game.
If they could only go with what they have in for instance the academy town, which looks really great, or the design of the satyr (best looking creature ever!), and ditch the fluorescent venom spawn and waspwort and the rag-tag look of the adventure map (the single trees look awful! Now you can choose between a forest with identical trees lined up in rows, or a forest where no two trees are of the same kind! The forests in HOMMIII were so beautiful and well made!).
So stop complaining about the vampire, and start complaining about the things that really need fixing!
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted November 28, 2001 01:09 PM |
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let's see...
...the vampire clothes surely are not out of time... but they still look bad... I would prefer a decent cloak and clothes of 17th century than this "B-movie Dracula" clothes... Vampires are supposed to be quite charming (Nosferatu apart) these guys look like nerds... The style of the vamps in "Interview with a Vampire" would be a million times better if NWC wanted to make a styilish look...
...I consider myself a vamp fan but seeing these guys in the battlefield would make me stop the fight and start laughing ...I mean, I could killed them just to take them out of their misery
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
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posted November 28, 2001 02:00 PM |
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Quote:
The vampire doesn't spoil the illusion. It looks like a vampire and is easily recognizeable as such. The colouring is the expected one.
The vampire is not cheap looking. The clothing looks expensive and is well done, and by your own account the shoes looked so good that they couldn't have been made in the 12th century.
The H3 vampire on the other hand has dull grey clothing which is torn/tattered. That IS a cheap look.
Than why in the 12th century people didn't produce such clothings? You must understand that the clothings are part of culture, and the culture is something that evolves. You can't invent compact discs if the wheel is not invented - or can you?
And what is cheap and what classy looking by your criteriums? You're telling here your thoughts on what is cheap and what is classy, but those opinions are based on the real world. In the real world Vampire clothes are classy - yes, in the real world dull grey torn clothes are cheap, yes.
But in a fantasy world, where everything is set up in another time and space, anything that breaks the harmony with looks that don't belong there is cheap.
If you had travel machine, and travel back in the 12th century in clothes like the HOMM4 vampire, wouldn't people think that your clothes are cheap? Yes. See, we're talking here about expirience. We have expirience in our world with such clothes, and by our judgement that is classy. But that's only our point of view. Anyone else that hadn't contact nor expirience with the things we had, will have different point of view. If you see man from the future, in clothes that we may invent in 25th century, would he look normal to you? No, because he belongs to another time. And that's how this kinda Vampire don't belong in ancient world.
And about the torn clothes of the HOMM3 vampire, why they're not cheap looking. Because they fit the world. Fit that world of fantasy. Take this into account, Count Dracula the Vampire lived almost 500 years. SO he was born in the 15th or 16th century. So how in the world of heroes, can Vampire wear clothes that are far ahead even from the time that is present in that world, when he was actually born several centuryes ago. And if we take in account that the Vampires tend to look Noble, because they want to disguise themselves, who should they resemble? Some funny future looking guy with ultra-modern clothings? Or he should resemble the look of the Nobles of the time that is present in the world. I think that the second option is what wuld they choose. They must look noble.
So, let's look now on the hero classes. What calss is the most noble one? The Lord perhaps, he starts with nobility. And he must be really noble if the people are willing to give him money and resources and creatures are growing in numbers when he is present in the city. Such guy must be the mose noble of all in the world. And nobles are always connected with fashion and good clothes in the history of the time, aren't they? And if we take a look at his clothes, we can see what are the terms for fashion in this world of Axeoth. Now, wouldn't be more reasonable for the Vampire to be in such clothes? Yes.
What I'm trying to say here is that there are no signs of 19th century clothes in the world of Axeoth. The only one who's wearing them is the Vampire. The Nobles aren't wearing such clothes, and that's what makes the Vampire ridicilous and cheap. That's why is he out of time. And that's why he must bechanged.
On the other hand, if the Lords were wearing or indicating any similarity to the suit of the Vampire, I wouldn't mind the looks of the Vampire. But this way he looks as an alien.
And when speaking of technology in the world of HOMM4, I wouldn't call it that way. All those things, Dragon Golems, Golems are imbued and animated with magic. But no matter that, even if we say that the world technologicaly is ready to produce such clothes, the world is not ready for those clothes culturaly. The Lords and they're clothes are the best example here.
That was my opinion why the Vampire doesn't fit. Please note that I was unable to express myself, as I would've been able to do it in my natural language. The english, as my secondary language is limiting my thought expression. So please excuse me Djive, if on some moments I've sounded rude. It wasn't my intention.
Thank you.
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 28, 2001 03:10 PM |
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Tailors in the 12th century could produce these things, and if you look outside Europe like China, India and Arabia they were capable of much better material too.
Why they weren't common? Because another cut of clothing were used among the nobles. Fashion. Culture will evolve differently in different worlds, just as it evolved differently in china, india, europe etcetera.
Cheap: Any kind of clothing that are torn, and anything that could make the person wearing them being mistaken for a hobo, vagabond or similar. (And here I'm assuming an otherwise normal look of the person wearing them.)
Classy: Anything which have been used by the upper classes, and with a reasonable expensive look.
The harmony is not broken. The vampire is expected to wear overall black clothing. The suit is black, right? White shirts fits with black suit, right? The red 'thing' about the neck matches the Vampire's eyes, right?
And then look at the necro town. The red parts match the imps and devils. The black is much better suited to the red than the grey robe they had in heroes 3.
I agree that the heroes 4 vampire wouldn't fit in heroes 3 necropolis, but take a look at the town. It has changed, and so must the vampire.
About the time travel, people have worn black suit-look- alike clothing for solemn occasions for a very long time. It's not really bound to a certain time and age. Also you're making this type of 'time jumps' all the time. The haven creatures are simply not contemporary with the other fantasy creatures in the game. A crusader attacking a genie is just not realsitic time wise.
The HOMM3 vampires fits because the colour of the Necropolis in HOMM3 was grey. All creatures were almost devoid of colour. All had very dark colours or various nuances of grey.
That said I don't really think HOMM4 vampire is all that Dracula alike. HOMM2 was dracula style, but HOMM4 is different.
There is no time conflict. The Vampire is not from Earth it's from Axeoth. Fashion evolves differently in different cultures and different worlds. In Axeoth the vampire is not futuristic. It looks that way, as does the nobles around him/her that are not vampires.
Giving the Vampire a dark version of the Lord's clothing (without the armour) would be an alternative, yes. The difference between the Lord and the Vampire is that the Lord is battle-dressed whereas the Vampire is dressed for social life, like the female Alchemist. Therefore, you can't really expect them to look the same.
But try to give the Vampire a white/blue suit and you will end up with something that does break harmony, no matter how classy it looks.
You probably won't see this fashion on other Heroes. Many heroes are expected to wear white or blue or to wear armour, whereas the vampire is expected to wear black and no armour. Therefore the fashion that the Vampire shows can't really be expected on heroes.
Anyway, stop trying to say that the fantasy world is 12th century, or whatever other century. Half the creatures (at least) don't belong to that age and the same applies for any other age you may choose.
English is not my first language either.
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Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
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posted November 28, 2001 04:35 PM |
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Hmmmm...
Now, first you must to understand that here is not important were poeple capable of doing something, but were they culuturaly ready to do that?
And your example points that even the people of this world, while capable of producing such suits, didn't do it. Why? Because there are many more factors than technological capabilities of doing something.
As for your exlplanation of the words "cheap" and "classy", those are quite literal explnanations. I think I can find such straightforward explanations I open the English dictonary. But I use those wrods in another way, and you understand that, but you use the their literal sense and twist my words and opinions.
Something that look good doesn't always to be classy. It may have intentions to look classy, but along the way it looks naive. That's the case with the Vampire.
And when you tell me that there are alway time lines mixed in this game I can agree. But past is one thing and present is another. This Vampire is like strech out from the present and put in the game. And you can't compare the time lines of the time before technology and after that.
Swords were pretty much the same in Greek and Roman time, as well as in the 12th century. So it's not that hard to unite those 2000 years into one. But when the technology come into the life of man everything went ahead with great speed. So that's why you can't look at the last 100 years the same way as you can on the 2000 years before this 100. If the sword was pretty same trough 2000 years, and the Cathedrals weren't different that much from the old temples until the renesaince come, look at the modern age - planes are not the same thing as before 100 years, nor are the cars. Now everything is moving faster. And all the inventions that once happened in 1500 years, now happen in 50. That's why merging of ancient and medieval worlds can be much less painful. Because the differences are less visible.
You have Pikemen there. Alexander the Great invented the Phalanx (ancient pikeman) and used it to conquer large part of the world. However the medieval Pikeman had rather different use, to stop the cavalry mainly, while the Phalanx was effetive against Cavalry and Infantry. But the basical purpose of the pike is common trough period of 15 centuries. And that's why it can be merged in the fantasy. Because their weapons of war were very much similar.
And back to the Nobles. Maybe the Lord has that armor on his chest, but he's not fully armour pledged. We can see his pants, his shirt. And those are quite renesaince looking. Are those pants and shirt modern in the world of HOMM4? Yes, because the lords are wearing those. They DON'T wear any black 19th century suit. And that's the problem here. It's not a colour problem. With the colours and stuff you're taking this in another direction. The colors doesn't bother me at all. The colours may remain the same on different clothing and still fit the new Necropolis.
This is a fantasy world. Putting there modern age looking Vampire doesn't corresponds with the rest. This clothes are modern age clothes. There is nothing fantasy in teh modern age. Is early 20th century modern car fantasy? Have you saw the gentleman in those early 20th century cars and their outfit? Do they look like this Vampire? Is there anything fantasy about those gentleman? Than how can be this Vampire clothes be fantasy? The artist who designed the vampire while creating it forgot the word fantasy.
As you say, the colours are fine, but the Vampire lacks FANTASY.
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 28, 2001 05:46 PM |
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Is there any culturally readiness needed? Once people start to wear good clothes, it's mostly chance that governs which clothes will be chosen by the upper class.
You should perhaps use "before their time" or something like that. I would object to that too. I find the style of clothing rather timeless. You have assigned it to a certain space of time in earth history, but that's rather unfair and is something I'll not accept.
(it's a black coat, white shirt and black shoes, and I don't believe we'll be able to make out more than that when the model is shrunk to battle-field size.)
I've tried not willfully twisted your words. I'm certainly not associating the outfit with only the 19th century. It's you who are doing that.
And btw. 'naivety' is not necessarily a bad quality for vampires. That may just be the impression they want to give the casual observer before they strike.
Also notice that Vampire is a Necropolis creature, it's not a human so human costumes would normally not apply to it at all. There has existed no Necropolises on Earth at this time, nor ever. So who are we tell tell what fashion would be normal in the land of the (un)dead?
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted November 28, 2001 05:58 PM |
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not so fast...
Quote:
Also notice that Vampire is a Necropolis creature, it's not a human so human costumes would normally not apply to it at all. There has existed no Necropolises on Earth at this time, nor ever. So who are we tell tell what fashion would be normal in the land of the (un)dead?
...actually most Vampires were loners... self absorbed and always unwilling to aid someone else's cause... they fed on humans so they had to mingle ...not that much ofcourse, but they still followed fashion to a level... they usually were well dressed and very charming (almost as charming as incubi and succubi)
...not to mention that they considered other undead as inferiors...
____________
You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted November 28, 2001 06:46 PM |
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Svetac,
One thing which you fail to grasp and which I have tried to explain to you many times is that weither the people in the middle ages were culturaly ready for such clothes is irrelevent. H4 does not take place in the middle ages. So stop bringing up centuries of earth culture in your descriptions, because Heroes does not take place on earth and does not have a century. They have their own culture, so using earth culture and earth centuries to judge what they are ready for is stupid.
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Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
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posted November 28, 2001 06:57 PM |
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Edited By: Svetac on 28 Nov 2001
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Quote:
Is there any culturally readiness needed? Once people start to wear good clothes, it's mostly chance that governs which clothes will be chosen by the upper class.
You should perhaps use "before their time" or something like that. I would object to that too. I find the style of clothing rather timeless. You have assigned it to a certain space of time in earth history, but that's rather unfair and is something I'll not accept.
(it's a black coat, white shirt and black shoes, and I don't believe we'll be able to make out more than that when the model is shrunk to battle-field size.)
I've tried not willfully twisted your words. I'm certainly not associating the outfit with only the 19th century. It's you who are doing that.
And btw. 'naivety' is not necessarily a bad quality for vampires. That may just be the impression they want to give the casual observer before they strike.
Also notice that Vampire is a Necropolis creature, it's not a human so human costumes would normally not apply to it at all. There has existed no Necropolises on Earth at this time, nor ever. So who are we tell tell what fashion would be normal in the land of the (un)dead?
Well ...
People started to wear good clothes. Yes. But what clothes? The Vampire suit is not bad clothing. Not at all. But in that time it wasn't accesible. Have you saw someone in such suit in any of the HOMM or M&M games? How those clothes come in the world of HOMM? They fell from the sky? All the inventions, whether they are technological or cultural (and clothes are under culture of the world) must have chronology. You can't have fiery arrows invention before fire invention. You can't have calendar invention without invention of mathematics and astrology. You can't jump from one period into another before the right time comes.
We have come to that "before their time". What will happen if you see guy with future clothes? What's that for you? Reality or science fiction? Future is all about science fiction, past - both, medieval and ancient is about fantasy.
There are two kinds of myths. Modern myth a.k.a. science fiction, and medieval and ancient myth a.k.a. mythology or fantasy.
What happens when in medieval/ancient world you put modern clothes? What happens if Julius Cesaer see me in my clothes? It's science fiction for him. So the appearance of the vampire in such clothes is pure science fiction to those poor pikemen that are staring at him. And we don't want science fiction in HOMM, don't we?
As for the 'naivety'. You didn't understand what I was trying to say. The vampire don't look naive. Not at all. But I was rather speaking of the art designer naive idea, when he put there a cliche 20th century version of vampire in such world. That's naive.
And for end here's your quote again: "So who are we tell tell what fashion would be normal in the land of the (un)dead?". Do you think that the undead, who were once alive are more addicted by the clothes of their time, or they run to buy the clothes from the future? This vampire may be living as an undead for centuryes. So what do you think, if Alexander the Great was raised as an undead, what would he love to wear? His old clothes, or clothes that aren't even invented yet?
To niteshade:
Well niteshade, judgeing by your logic, that ignores the fact that this creatures are part of the real world culture and mythos, and claim that that is completely different world I wonder, how come they also discovered the same weapons of war? How happened that they discovered swords, maces, bows and arrows, similiar clothes like in the medieval/ancient age, helms, even castles that resemble the earth ones, religion and everything else? Where does it come from? Why don't they have unique weapons, buildings, cultures?
You don't want to understand that all of these things have roots in this reality and this world. They come from the imagination of the people of this world. And people of this world draw their imagination from their living expirience. That's why this two worlds are close together.
This fantasy world wouldn't existed without the real man, without the ancient and medieval myth. So don't tell me crap like that, and don't call my reasoning stupid. At least I never offended you when I was exposin my thoughts.
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted November 28, 2001 07:05 PM |
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btw i wouldn't say that the homm3 vampire's clothes were cheap. it looks like an old noble that has slept in a coffin in his lonely castle for many centuries, of course some dust has gathered on his clothes that once were expensive and fashionable (but should rather be bit out of date compared to the living nobles), and the colors do not look quite as bright as they were when he lived.
well, actually, i liked the homm2 vampire much better, the homm3 one looks too bent with age to be sent to the battlefield.
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted November 28, 2001 07:37 PM |
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Gerdash,
"What happens when in medieval/ancient world you put modern clothes? What happens if Julius Cesaer see me in my clothes? It's science fiction for him. So the appearance of the vampire in such clothes is pure science fiction to those poor pikemen that are staring at him. And we don't want science fiction in HOMM, don't we? "
By that logic, it's sci-fi anytime a culture meets somebody from another culture who wears different clothes. So I guess there has been a whole lot of sci-fi in the history of our world. It is no more sci-fi when the pikemen see the vampire then it is when European sailors encountered the much more culturally different asian cultures.
"Well niteshade, judgeing by your logic, that ignores the fact that this creatures are part of the real world culture and mythos, and claim that that is completely different world I wonder, how come they also discovered the same weapons of war?"
You may note that not every weapon from the real world is represented in Heroes. Yes there are some weapons which are, but that's only common sense. You may note for example that more then one culture developed swords independently of each other, because they are such efficient battlefield weapons.
"How happened that they discovered swords, maces, bows and arrows, similiar clothes like in the medieval/ancient age, helms, even castles that resemble the earth ones, religion and everything else? Where does it come from? Why don't they have unique weapons, buildings, cultures? "
Ok now I have to ask you where you've been. Heroes has always had different clothes, different buildings, and vastly different religions and cultures then the real world. Look at the academy for example and tell me that the mages guild there is drawn from any real world architecture. Similarly while religion has never been developed in HoMM, The MM series has made it quite clear that they follow a quite different religion then earth, with the existence of multiple gods. As for culture, look at the dungeon overlords and tell me what real world culture they are supposed to be based on?
"You don't want to understand that all of these things have roots in this reality and this world. They come from the imagination of the people of this world. And people of this world draw their imagination from their living expirience. That's why this two worlds are close together. "
But some of us have enough imagination that we can imagine things that are different from our world as well.
"This fantasy world wouldn't existed without the real man, without the ancient and medieval myth. So don't tell me crap like that, and don't call my reasoning stupid. At least I never offended you when I was exposin my thoughts."
I apologize if you have taken offence by my pointing out the errors in your logic, it was not my intention. But you must realize that the fantasy world of heroes is only partialy based on medieval myth.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 28, 2001 07:56 PM |
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Actually, after having taken a look at the Vampire again... I have the following ideas for the Vampire's clothing.
The dress is typical for an undertaker, and I gather an undetaker could have worn this outfit a very long time ago. Black is after all the colour of death and sorrow. All that is missing is the hat, and that particualr item is not appropriate for the vampire.
(The dress looks nice and correct.)
As for the 'naivety'. I understood what you said, but expanded on it in another direction. The statement was not adressing the point you mentioned when you mentioned 'naivety'. I was just saying "naivety is not unfitting for vampires"
The art designer was not naive at all, but then we have different opinions on that one. We'd already established that so I saw no point in mentioning it again.
Alexader the Great, if he were taken to the halls of a Necropolis castle he may were well wear clothes that matched the scenery in those halls.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
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posted November 28, 2001 10:53 PM |
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Quote:
But some of us have enough imagination that we can imagine things that are different from our world as well.
I think that we do agree here. As a matter of fact, judgeing by this we agree on more things. And this words of yours, are all that I wanted to say. I don't want real looking vampire in HOMM4. The current one looks like taken from reality. I love imagination and fantasy. This vampire lack fantasy. It's not fantasy when you take vampire from B movies (and those movies are our reality) and put him in the game. I want fantasy on the vampire. To look like vampire from some other world. I agree 
Djive:
Well, that vampire looks like undertaker, not like vampire, that's true. But he looks like 19th.... ugh... no! Must ... resist... temptation ... like 19th cent... NO! STOP you stupid Svetac (I hope that self offending is not breaking of the rules). We had enough of this centuryes crap
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted November 28, 2001 11:33 PM |
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Well it's kind of impossible to take a vampire from reality, since they don't exist in reality. If your saying he's taken from legends in the real world, this is true.
Even if we ignore everything else I've said though, giving people Victorian era style clothes is actually not all that unusual in fantasy. I'm not sure if your familiar with ravenloft, but Strahd von Zarovich from there is considered one of the most classic fantasy game vampires, and he is dressed in a similar victorian fasion, because the area he comes from (despite having no technology) uses similar fashions.
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Darion
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 29, 2001 12:19 AM |
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Again, I will repeat my argument for the dragon golem for the vampire. Since Heroes III is a fantasy game, we like to play this excellent strategy game to get out of our human world and travel into a magical fantasy land where we control beautiful noble and deadly creatures... not silly cartoonish humorish creatures. The creatures are dangerous, ready to kill, and are fighting wars!
Thus comes my next point. The vampire in my opinion I do not like, not because its clothing style does not fit (though I like the Heroes 3 vampire better), and not because it is not recognizable, and not because it is not culturally correct to the time period. When I see the vampire, just like the dragon golem, I want to see an elegant deadly black evil creature that is something different from what I see everyday. And everyday around halloween i see cartoon caricatures of humorous cute cartoon vampires for advertisements and clip art.
This current vampire looks much like those cutesy 21st century depictions, and that is why I do not like the vampire style. A vampire by my definition can wear any type of clothes- including a tuxedo. He could be wearing a sundress and suspenders with a hawaiin lei for all I really care. However, I do not like the vampire style because although it is immediately recognizable, it does not portray the dangerous evil and nobleness of a vampire attacking creatures and draining their life out of them.. instead it looks like some silly creature with a toothy grin, ready to go collect candy and laugh. That is the reason why I don't like the current style of vampire.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 29, 2001 01:22 AM |
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We play the game for strategy and to get out of the human world. Correct.
However, some of us expects to be entertained in a game so a humourish approach is certainly a good one. A bloody and gory one is only too likely to remind us of the outside world, which is why I don't like it. There's a lot of war and misery around the world. I do not want to be reminded of it when I play a game of strategy.
What looks dangerous is subjective. There's nothing wrong with these Vampires for me, but then halloween is not that popular in my country. And besides, the picture is a model. If a creature really will appear dangerous will depend on how it appears on the battlefield and on animations. So basically, you should withhold your opinion on this one because you haven't seen enough to give a judgement. Nobleness and evilnees can't really be relayed by a static model. You'll need an animated image for that.
About fighting war... Heroes is a strategy game and NOT a war game.
When it comes to vampires and halloween it appears you see them so often that you're not afraid of them any more, or expressed in another way: they are familiar and you're not afraid of what you're familiar with.
With a view like that I very much doubt that you want to see vampires at all in the game. If you can't accept that a vampire is supposed to look in a certain way, then what you want is another monster which is unfamiliar to you, and this means that this creature is not called a vampire. (And if you want a creature that you call a vampire which you can't recognize as a vampire, then you'll have a lot of people screaming about the picture being all wrong, me included.)
I've assumed that since you say so vehementely that you don't care at all about the clothes, it must be the face and hands that are wrong. Those two things are, however, what makes them recognizeable as vampires.
Since you 'like' the H3 vampires... IMO these vampires looks as if they'd just swallowed one kg of lemons a few seconds ago. That's just plain boring to me. There's no attraction for me in looking at a sour vampire. It's not making it look either noble or evil.
*sighs* All these vampire haters. *sighs*
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
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posted November 29, 2001 01:43 AM |
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Hands and the head are quite OK. What the vampire need is another clothes. And in another clothes he can act and look scary and noble.
My ideal combo for everybody's satisfaction: HOMM3 clothes or something similar - some robe like the Sorceror hero from HOMM4 is wearing, HOMM4 hands and head, HOMM2 *blah* sound.
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
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