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baklava
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posted August 09, 2008 03:43 PM |
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Chechnya also borders Georgia if I'm not mistaken?
Anyway, Soviet puppets DID feed the USSR, more or less. Quite a lot of its exports were off to the Union. So, this way, USSR gained profit, but didn't have to really worry about the population of those countries (except in case of war, which didn't happen; and occasional rebellions, which were sorted out with a few tanks).
Italy managed to annex Albania in WW2, more or less. Albanians even showed quite cooperative. And what about India, Hongkong and a lot of Africa, ruled by the UK for all that time? It's not too hard to annex a country geographically, but there are problems with international relations, and keeping the population docile.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
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you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Kipshasz
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Elvin's Darkside
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posted August 09, 2008 04:24 PM |
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Another Cold War era? Thats an interesting theory Bak. Which might come true actually. IMO this whole mess started when USSR started to break apart. Those times werent the most peaceful. And lets rewiew what happend during the first few years of independent Lithuania: detonated cars,murders,corrupted goverment(actualy its corrupted to this day),criminal activity in the citys etc. In other words- chaos.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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mvassilev
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posted August 09, 2008 04:47 PM |
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Baklava:
Quote:
Chechnya also borders Georgia if I'm not mistaken?
Ah, yes, that's right. It borders Georgia, but not Azerbaijan.
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occasional rebellions, which were sorted out with a few tanks
These rebellions would have been more troublesome if the country was actually part of the USSR.
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Italy managed to annex Albania in WW2, more or less. Albanians even showed quite cooperative.
It managed to annex it because they were relatively cooperative and didn't like Yugoslavia.
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And what about India, Hongkong and a lot of Africa, ruled by the UK for all that time?
In this day and age, it's a lot harder to run a formally colonial empire than it was back then. Besides Hong Kong was just a city, India was under the control of the Mughals, and Africa was, and is, underdeveloped.
Kipshasz:
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IMO this whole mess started when USSR started to break apart.
You're not saying that it was better in the days of the USSR, are you?
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Eccentric Opinion
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baklava
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posted August 09, 2008 04:58 PM |
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Quote:
These rebellions would have been more troublesome if the country was actually part of the USSR.
Exactly. Which proves my point about Russia profiting more from puppets than annexed countries. 
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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mvassilev
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posted August 09, 2008 05:01 PM |
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If a nation is composed of a distinct ethnic unit with a history of being independent (like Poland), that's one thing. When it's something like South Ossetia, it's another.
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Kipshasz
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posted August 09, 2008 05:08 PM |
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@mvassilev: i was only 5 when USSR fell to pieces. So i cant compare the life in soviet union and the life in 'independent' Lithuania. Btw,just heard on the news that Russia started bombing Georgia's cities. Lets just hope there woudnt be a WW3
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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mvassilev
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posted August 09, 2008 05:17 PM |
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Saakashvili has now asked the Georgian parliament to declare war on Russia. This is not good.
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baklava
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posted August 09, 2008 05:33 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 17:34, 09 Aug 2008.
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If a nation is composed of a distinct ethnic unit with a history of being independent (like Poland), that's one thing. When it's something like South Ossetia, it's another.
No, it's not.
I'll give you an example. From my region, of course. If you ever need an example for political/national pointlessness, just consult the Balkans. 
See, 15 years ago, there was no such thing as a "Bosnian people". Bosnia was populated by Serbs and Croats. "Bosnians" were Serbs and Croats who lived in Bosnia.
Then, all of a sudden, with the growing of idiotic national tensions, people inhabiting Bosnia (who were mostly muslim) started calling themselves a different people. And now that's quite accepted. Some even recognize Bosnian language as different (though it's identical to Serbian and Croatian). They declared themselves a different people just cause they have a different religion. Imagine Tom Cruise calling himself not American but "Martian" cause he's a scientologist.
Ok, they were at least of a different religion. But what about Montenegrians? They call themselves a different people now too, though they declared themselves as Serbs for centuries. Their greatest leader in history, which they sort of worship, considered himself and his people Serbs. And now? They consider themselves and their language separate too. Like a different ethnic group.
What do you get? A handful of "different" peoples with same blood, same roots, speaking the same language, each calling themselves differently.
The point is, South Ossetians might as well call themselves a different people now too. That doesn't have anything to do with common sense, really.
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Saakashvili has now asked the Georgian parliament to declare war on Russia. This is not good.
Is he out of his mind or what?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Darkshadow
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posted August 09, 2008 05:34 PM |
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I wonder how far would Russia go if Georgia would declare war on them.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted August 09, 2008 05:35 PM |
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Georgia wouldn't exist.
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You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
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mvassilev
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posted August 09, 2008 05:53 PM |
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Quote:
Imagine Tom Cruise calling himself not American but "Martian" cause he's a scientologist.
He's not a martian?
The Blakans have always suffered from too much ethnicity. If there were three people in the Balkans, there'd be 50 different ethnicities. The reason that everybody is seceding from everybody is because all of the countries there are poor, so it makes very little difference. Also, political leaders want a slice of the pie.
But when you have an organized superpower like Russia, and a relatively solid ethnic bloc like the Georgians, and caught in between them you have the Ossetians, who are indeed different from both of them, it's a recipie for disaster.
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Is he out of his mind or what?
I bet he was drunk.
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 09, 2008 06:19 PM |
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So The independence of Kosovo freaked Georgia out and they decided to attack South Ossetia that has been more independent than Kosovo for 20 years. Of course Russia has been itching to teach Georgia some manners just as long and told south ossetian leaders that if Georgia attacks they will retaliate. South Ossetia cancels the negotiations. Georgia attacks. Russia retaliates. Georgia declares war. Russia batters Georgia into oblivion. Sakashvili gets Haag for life. South ossetia and abhasia stay out of georgia like they have stayed for 20 years.
Everybody's happy.
Except the 20000 dead. But they can't whine either so no one remebers them.
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Doomforge
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posted August 09, 2008 06:22 PM |
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The Osetians had two choices, continue as a part of Georgia or become a Russian province. Both of those seem a bad choice to me, but whatever :E Georgia and Russia solved their problem. Hard for me to judge which of those factions are responsible, but "responsible" is a good HC title, not a figure in politics. I'm pretty certain both nations were involved in their little game.. with some third party around, of course. Politics is complicated nowadays :E
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baklava
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posted August 09, 2008 06:32 PM |
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Quote:
The reason that everybody is seceding from everybody is because all of the countries there are poor, so it makes very little difference.
Most of the countries in the Balkans are no less (in fact, I think it's safe to say, they're more developed) than Georgia. And even some parts of Russia.
Life here isn't so bad as I like to babble about. Don't worry. Well, except in Kosovo.
Yugoslavia was also well organized in times of Tito, and look what happened.
Unity and ethnicity are fragile things, MVas.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Kipshasz
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Elvin's Darkside
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posted August 09, 2008 06:41 PM |
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Quote:
So The independence of Kosovo freaked Georgia out and they decided to attack South Ossetia that has been more independent than Kosovo for 20 years. Of course Russia has been itching to teach Georgia some manners just as long and told south ossetian leaders that if Georgia attacks they will retaliate. South Ossetia cancels the negotiations. Georgia attacks. Russia retaliates. Georgia declares war. Russia batters Georgia into oblivion. Sakashvili gets Haag for life. South ossetia and abhasia stay out of georgia like they have stayed for 20 years.
Everybody's happy.
Except the 20000 dead. But they can't whine either so no one remebers them.
interesting prediction. But,there may be a different outcome. Someone like USA might defend Georgia. And this battle might turn into a global nuclear conflict
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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Doomforge
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posted August 09, 2008 07:07 PM |
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I am sure USA will NOT do anything ;E We don't want a world war. They can't react.
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Darkshadow
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posted August 09, 2008 07:25 PM |
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Correction:We don't want Worldwide Apocalypse.The weapon amounts have been declining since cold war period but Russia still has most nuclear weapons in the whole world, USA becoming close second.Now Imagine what would happen when the two nations would go to Nuclear war 
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Doomforge
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posted August 09, 2008 07:29 PM |
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I don't think they actually will. Everybody knows it's completely pointless.
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mvassilev
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posted August 09, 2008 07:37 PM |
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Doomforge:
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The Osetians had two choices, continue as a part of Georgia or become a Russian province.
No. They didn't have any choice. Either Russia was going to force independence upon them (with a puppet leader, of course), or Georgia was going to do something about the Russian infiltration. Either way, there's nothing that the Ossetians could've done.
Baklava:
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Most of the countries in the Balkans are no less (in fact, I think it's safe to say, they're more developed) than Georgia. And even some parts of Russia.
But the thing about the Balkans is that they've been a historically conflicted place. Over their long history, every people has done some sort of injustice to every other people, practically. So that could be exploited relatively easily. Russia and Georgia, on the other hand, have never had the same kind of relationship as Serbia and Kosovo had.
Darkshadow:
The interesting thing about Russia's nuclear arsenal is that it sucks compared to the American one. Most of their rockets are old and rusted. The only thing Putin really has are his rockets on trucks.
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Darkshadow
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posted August 09, 2008 07:41 PM |
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I know this might be offtopic but I have to say it:Russia has Tsar bombs, the largest nuclear weapons in existence, I don't remember what was their explosion radius but US's neutron bombs are piece of garbage compared to Tsar's.Americans might have upgraded their arsenal over the years, But Russia is still a huge threat, updated nuclear weapons or not.
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