|
|
phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
|
posted March 27, 2009 05:27 PM |
|
|
One benefit of the qp system is an indication of valuable posts. Especially in the heroes forums this is useful. I'm familiar with heroes games but suppose I want some in-depth information say on heroes 3 which I am less familiar with. When I do a search qp posts that are more likely to contain that info are going to come back first. Also it is easy to scan the table of contents [list of qp's] to get to important information more quickly.
I think QP's are the specific symptom of the argument not the argument itself. Take the Asheera/Pan debate that just happened. Take QP's out of it. Asheera makes an ambiguous statement. Pan cites the COC, cites the parts of Asheera's post that were objectionable, and then punishes Ash, in this case we'll say silencing her for 24 hours. We get the same argument and debate about the offense and punishment just without QP's.
So one issue is the relations between moderators and forum members and whether that should be handled in public or through hcm's etc.
I like having the system of rewards for valuable contributions. I like the 20 post limit.
____________
Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 06:03 PM |
|
|
Is that in effect for the VW as well? I mean, that's a spam forum, right? Makes no sense to have a posting limit there, if it's valid for that one as well.
You might be denight access with less than 2 red stars or something or GET a limit there, but basically that forum isn't meant to produce quality points, to phrase it cautiously...
Any special rules for that forum?
|
|
Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 06:06 PM |
|
|
There is no post limit in VW.
____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!
|
|
phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 06:06 PM |
|
|
Posts in vw do not count toward the 20 post limit. However if you are over the 20 post limit you still can't post in vw.
____________
Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
|
|
Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 06:07 PM |
|
|
Whoa, Pony, that was too close to my reply!
____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 06:29 PM |
|
|
Then I don't see a problem with the current rule - if you want to post the hell out of the forum, simply do it in the VW.
I agree with Phoenix - I do like the posting limit, and I think that the QPs are a good idea. Whether they are all fair or not - who cares? Of course they are NOT all fair, and some maybe should have gotten one, but didn't - so what?
You can always award a summary QP, a quantum solace, if you want to, for reaching the 5th or 6th or 7th golden star, if a person is still stuck at 2 QPs, acknowledging "general contribution" or something, like giving a career Oscar. 
|
|
veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 06:54 PM |
|
|
Well there is another way but I'm not sure wheter it could apply here.
Besides HC I'm also part of a Wolfenstein clan which is a relatively closed community (around 20 active members) and on our forums we implemented a post rating system, similar to QPs but there every member can rate a post.
It's just a thought, I can't really compare big/small open/closed communities. Giving this option to all members by default seems like a bad idea but you could base acces to it via Post Count/Registered time. From my experience people are picky by nature what is and what isn't quality so you won't see 274517294 QPs  You could also give a limit like 1/2 per week
+the system will prevail
+there won't be any complaints about QPs since you can add them freely
-QP status requirments (Responsible title etc) would have to be higher and updated from time to time (or just delete it and show the QP number instead)
This probably won't pass but I think it's something worth telling
____________
none of my business.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 07:16 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Well there is another way but I'm not sure wheter it could apply here.
Besides HC I'm also part of a Wolfenstein clan which is a relatively closed community (around 20 active members) and on our forums we implemented a post rating system, similar to QPs but there every member can rate a post.
I know such forums. Doesn't work. The "QPs" or their equivalent lose their meaning after some helpful/contributing members exceed 500 or more. Happened already in the biggest Polish sports forums. 
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 09:46 PM |
|
|
JJ:
Quote:
So I'd simply suggest that the mods make up their mind and do what they deem is best for the site.
That's what happened at CH. I doubt you want that to happen here.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 09:52 PM |
|
|
Quote:
That's what happened at CH. I doubt you want that to happen here.
Oh don't make a fuss, it's just QPs.
____________
none of my business.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 10:05 PM |
|
|
First they came for the tossers,
but I wasn't a tosser, so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for the free-range spammers,
but I wasn't a free-range spammer, so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for the high QP members,
but I wasn't a high QP member, so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for me,
there was no one left to speak up.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 10:14 PM |
|
|
So you're feeling insecure while having those people running the place and don't trust them. That's hardly a basis for building a community and/or having fun on the forums.
Maybe I'm here too short to jugde but so far I've seen no bad will amognts the moderators nor do they give of a superiority aura. MM is funny trying though
Sure I've witnessed similar cases to that at CH but the mod squad differed much in terms of user friendliness. I've also seen forums run for years with admins making deccisions on their own and the place always had a welcoming feel to it.
Let go (at least this time)
____________
none of my business.
|
|
pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 10:17 PM |
|
|
I think the problem with QP's should be discussed among the moderators - in HQ. It seems impossible at this point of discussion that we can manage to have this conversation in the public' without getting tempers involved.
The major problems I see that I have raised with the others are that
unlike -QP's there is no set guideline that we can use to say why we have given a QP, nor is there any particular rule set to follow about giving them so we rely soley on out own personal opinion.
I rather dislike the QP chain of events that happens, take for example the Downhill times thread - one person spills their guts gets a QP, and then how many follow? Then where are we - do we just say that if you post a sad life story you should automatically get a QP? Or is it better to give a QP to just some and not others, risking having those other people feeling devalued and hurt that their story wasn't worthy?
I've stated before that I won't give QP's to things such as poetry, mainly for that reason - I don't think its fair that my own personal taste in something that is often quite personal should be the deciding factor in if its quality or not. The same goes with most of those strong opinion based posts - whether its meant to or not a QP will tend to validate someone in their opinion, or appear to others as if that's the case. Look at how many million times we've been accused of favouritism when awarding QP's, no matter why we do it there will always be people that perceive that our reason is simply because we like that member more than anyone else.
Generally speaking, if I do give a QP nowadays - its for the member, never to the post. Any time in the last maybe two- three years that I have given a QP for a post I've been crapped on by others who think for whatever reason that my QP would be the ruin of all HC. So to get a QP from me, you really can't count on your post doing it - its based on pretty much everything I've ever seen from you.
The other issue I have with the QP's is the amount of, and the type of feedback/backlash we as moderators take when they're awarded. I hate it when I give a QP to someone, and immediately people have to criticise it and complain. Any good feeling that member may have had in getting the QP is wiped out pretty quick by that type of thing, and it makes me feel bad for even creating the situation where that would happen.
In other forums the QP's should be given to the posts, and what they contribute - so in that respect we can't have one blanket system.
But herein lies the problem - its quite easy to see the problems, more difficult to find a feasable situation.
I personally think that one thing that would help is if the feedback on QP's is managed differently. I think that too many people feel that their opinions hold more weight than they do, I don't think that moderators should be required to use a system that causes them grief more often than not.
After all this .... has transpired, I can say that I personally want no more involvement with the system. I'm tired of this song and dance. I'm tired of having people chasing me down wagging their fingers after me for every move I make. After a while you just start to feel awfully defeated when everyone that you speak to has something they have to ***** at you about. If anything though, I can no longer be accused of favouritism - even the "side" I'm on accuses me of being against them lol
I suppose my official stance is that if I can't possibly win - I don't wanna play
*takes her bag of QP's and goes home*
____________
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
|
|
mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 10:20 PM |
|
|
Its really just an endless argument... while qp's do serve the essential function of indicating posts that are good to read. they have taken up more ambiguity. Posts that are funny can get a Quality Point. The concept has been overstretched and qp's are given out as a general seal of approval.
I have one question. How do we distinguish posts that are worth reading from posts that are not... I think we should just change em to quality posts and only label posts that give great insight.
If a member does something else it is the community who rewards him. Right now the concept of a qp isn't necessary. The community already does what qps do. The community grows to respect people. If i make primarily and consistently funny and clever posts the community will come to respect me. Put qp's into the equation and you've attached an outlet for people who have frustration with mods, a potential point of discrimination and a rabblerousing star. Its like walking around with a shirt that says, "'m proud to have done X and to have invented Y." Others may at times feel that it is boisterous and it makes them uneasy or irritated.
IMO.
i'm not speaking my mind anymore on this matter. Topics like these only devalue intermember relationships.
____________
Protection From Everything.
dota
|
|
veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 10:27 PM |
|
|
Topics like these only devalue intermember relationships.
And just for that - you are the man
____________
none of my business.
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 10:58 PM |
|
|
Yea lets just do what dad always says lol.
Lets lock every thread up that you command lol.
I have to agree this time pops.
This issue is getting us no where.
It's fine the way it is.
There is not really any problem. Plus no matter what we use, there will always be topics like this.
Pops quit being a thread killer huh?
I do agree that this one is going in circles.
____________
Dreaming of a Better World
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 11:12 PM |
|
|
Mvass made perfect sense though. Those who say "why do you care? it's not going to affect you." should take a closer look at his last post.
And of COURSE I and others will get involved -- this is a COMMUNITY after all, not a every-man-for-himself zone lol.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 11:15 PM |
|
|
Quote:
And for all of you who didn't realize as of yet:
If we kick the current system, ALL members would have set their flood protection status back to "New registered member"!!
No matter how many red stars you currently have!
I just thought I make that point clear so no one will complain afterwards.
Hmm I wouldn't complain about flood protect but as I said in my first post in here, is the 20 post limit really necessary for every member right from the start? I don't get it really, if you have problems with spammers who post too much off-topic and junk, just apply the 20 post limit or even less only on them (by giving a 'penalty' in the new system)
____________
|
|
pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
|
|
posted March 27, 2009 11:43 PM |
|
|
It is necessary when you consider the problem that we have with psycho clones going all out to pollute when the moon is full.
Its better to have a safety net to stop them in those cases. The flip side though, is that when they have hit their limit they often pop out a new name... 
I do think that it would be better though to have a system in which a member asks to have it removed if its an issue - from there it could be raised in the HQ and a decision could be made about a fair limit. QP's in my opinion aren't the answer here - just common sense, that way in the same manner if a member who has many QP's starts to abuse the privilege by making ridiculous ratings on threads, spamming etc - the moderators can also adjust their limit to suit the situation.
As for this being a community issue - of course it is, and I don't see any problem with people raising their opinions. But at this point when the squad is basically just discussing it and tossing out random ideas or issues - it doesn't seem fitting for me to have that happen in the public.
There's enough of a mod vs members thing happening here. If we write an idea out here that people dislike we run the risk of more people coming out of nowhere with flame-shooters, if we keep that part of the discussion in the HQ we can usually avoid that sort of thing, by just shooting down the idea ourselves as we talk it through.
All i meant was that at this stage in the discussion its silly to have these things escalating when a lot of the time it would be a situation where something is made of nothing.
I think it would be better for us (moderators and valeriy) to put out heads together first and come up with something together to present to you, all this headbutting in open forum is inappropriate.
____________
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 28, 2009 12:02 AM |
|
|
veco:
Obviously, I was speaking rhetorically. Far more often than not, the mods make good decisions. But - unfortunately - these good decisions are rarely noticed, while their bad choices are widely decried.
Pan:
Quote:
Generally speaking, if I do give a QP nowadays - its for the member, never to the post.
Not saying that this is a bad idea - it isn't - but doesn't this present a greater risk of criticism than giving QPs for posts?
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
