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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted March 14, 2010 03:24 PM |
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Elodin, let me be frank.
a man who has no arguement will say "You're just a bunch of liars!" My good man, you are scared that the arguement you bring forth hold no water, and every time I refute them, you resort to acting like a 3 year-old, telling me I'm the liar.
For goodness sake, every link you have sent me has been to christian apologetic sites. it's not a reliable source, not peer reviewed, not accredited in anyway, shape or form, it is just the same hack arguements used by people like Kent hovind, Ray comfort, Ted hughes or Glenn beck to push their own agenda in the world. the page you linked even had a advert "Atheism: born out of Immorality". I will not take any of you're arguements seriously and will continue to take them as worthless unless you can give me a link to a site with much more than just literalists jargon on it.
More importantly, you have the gall to claim I lie about my evidence? I'm a university undergraduate, I've learnt to check and double check my sources of information. I don't believe what some raging pastor with syphilis tells me is true. I've learnt to be critical, and not jus take someones word for it. the Bible offers me nothing but the falsies and murmuring of a bunch of crochety ignorant isreali desert wanderers who justify their actions believing that some sky daddy is taking to them, and the one good character in it is not a man, but actually the sky daddy born again, thus eliminating the one sole good character from the equation.
loss of historican documents can't be simply put off as "Oh, they weren't inspired, they don't matter." OF course they matter! Of course they are important. they are not the twisted dogma of a bunch of rich holymen trying to make sense of the jumbled mess they have created, they are what happened, they are records, far more valuable!
And you dare sit behind you're computer screen and call me ignorant! I will not be tied down by some bronze age doctorine of killing unbelievers and stoning disobiedent children. I wish to look forward, and understand the world, rather than sit back and suck the god cock! I would rather live in a world where there is freedom and tolerance, rather than adhering to a scripture that encourages people to destroy Wiccans and stone unbelievers, a mob faith built on scapegoats and hatred.
I made a thread recently, Elodin, called "The argument" where I talked about how you present yourself is just as important in a debate as how you get you're facts across. You, so far, have been ignorant, belligerent, Arrogant and unable to back you're points up with anything but christian propaganda. You might claim that I am just as bad, if not worse for being an unbeliever, but you are no better. How very unchristian on you!
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted March 14, 2010 06:00 PM |
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Quote:
Elodin, let me be frank.
a man who has no arguement will say "You're just a bunch of liars!" My good man, you are scared that the arguement you bring forth hold no water, and every time I refute them, you resort to acting like a 3 year-old, telling me I'm the liar.
Actually, you have just been throwing out a lot of lies and the ones I have bothered to address I have soundly refuted. You have offered no sources at all for your lies.
You claim to be have a degree but you would have failed research papers given the shoddy research (or lack of it) you have done so far.
All you appear to have done is copy and pasted from an anti-Christian website (which you didn't even link to.) Unfortuanately for you they had only posted lies about what the Bible says.
Quote:
More importantly, you have the gall to claim I lie about my evidence? I'm a university undergraduate, I've learnt to check and double check my sources of information. Quote:
Then I can only conclude you can't read very well if you double checked the below verse 17 that you claimed said it is ok for a husband to beat his wife. Please enroll in some remedial classes for your own good.
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1Pe 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
1Pe 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.quote]
It is unfortunate that some people are so anti-Christian that they feel the need to make up lies about Christianity rather than have an honest discussion.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted March 14, 2010 06:07 PM |
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Unfortuanately for you they had only posted lies about what the Bible says.
Do you surrender o great fear shodded fellow?
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted March 14, 2010 06:48 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Elodin, let me be frank.
a man who has no arguement will say "You're just a bunch of liars!" My good man, you are scared that the arguement you bring forth hold no water, and every time I refute them, you resort to acting like a 3 year-old, telling me I'm the liar.
Actually, you have just been throwing out a lot of lies and the ones I have bothered to address I have soundly refuted. You have offered no sources at all for your lies.
You claim to be have a degree but you would have failed research papers given the shoddy research (or lack of it) you have done so far.
All you appear to have done is copy and pasted from an anti-Christian website (which you didn't even link to.) Unfortuanately for you they had only posted lies about what the Bible says.
Le gasp, no link!
maybe I've done my own bloody research rather than relying on apologetics websites.
more to the point, I never claimed a degree, merely an undergrad. my area in expertise is ancient civilisations, not bible verses trivia. please refer back to my statements about the Isrealites less than honourable tactics.
Quote:
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More importantly, you have the gall to claim I lie about my evidence? I'm a university undergraduate, I've learnt to check and double check my sources of information.
Then I can only conclude you can't read very well if you double checked the below verse 17 that you claimed said it is ok for a husband to beat his wife. Please enroll in some remedial classes for your own good.
again, not helping you're argument if you can feel that you have the right to tell me what to do.
Quote:
Quote:
1Pe 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
1Pe 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
It is unfortunate that some people are so anti-Christian that they feel the need to make up lies about Christianity rather than have an honest discussion.
let he who cast the first stone be without sin.
one of your's, is it not?
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted March 17, 2010 10:21 AM |
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I just want to take a moment to cover something that was said about on page one..(went back and read) about Jesus' ressurection. So about 500 people saw him after he was dead huh? Well Elvis has been seen by thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands since his death. Should we take this to mean he was the second coming?
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Message received.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted March 17, 2010 12:29 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 12:33, 17 Mar 2010.
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I just want to take a moment to cover something that was said about on page one..(went back and read) about Jesus' ressurection. So about 500 people saw him after he was dead huh? Well Elvis has been seen by thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands since his death. Should we take this to mean he was the second coming?
No. The appearances of Jesus were not "sightings." He hung around and talked to people and these people were familiar with him before he died.
Jesus was seen by over 500 at one time. He also stayed with the disciples for about 40 days after his resurrection and thaught them things.
But it is amazing what kinds of things some people come up with to throw against Christianity. Keep on throwing, nothing will stick. 
Elvis's body can be exhumed and some of his organs are in storage. Perhaps you should have researched the issue a bit.
http://www.elvispresleynews.com/ElvisExhumed.html
The body of Jesus was transformed and rose from his tomb.
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Revelation
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted March 17, 2010 02:55 PM |
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Was Jesus a vampire? I mean, he rose from the dead and was like "Drink my blood, it'll give you special powers."
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted March 17, 2010 05:09 PM |
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No. The appearances of Jesus were not "sightings."
tell that the woman who claims to see jesus in her toilet door. or the man who found jesus in a cheese sandwich.
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He hung around and talked to people and these people were familiar with him before he died.
in west-end bethlehem, born and raised, on the play ground is where I spent most of my days, chillin', relaxin', relaxin' all cool and shooting some B-ball outside of the school...
sorry, I never knew jesus was to hip.
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Jesus was seen by over 500 at one time. He also stayed with the disciples for about 40 days after his resurrection and thaught them things.
like what?
don't give me statements, give me examples, evidence, results, man.
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But it is amazing what kinds of things some people come up with to throw against Christianity. Keep on throwing, nothing will stick.
nothing sticks because you're too bloody pig headed to even give it a moments thought. the moment anyone comes back with a counter claim, you scream "LIAR!" and run off to you're treehouse. the moment anyone disagrees with you, you're yell "You're all as bad as stalin, he was an atheist, you know!"
the point you are missing about stalin is that he was stalin and his acts are attributal to him and him alone. whilst there might be lots of atheists in the world, there aren't many stalins.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted March 17, 2010 05:24 PM |
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Ah, the anti-Christian folk have forsaken all pretense of a rational discussion. I take that as you waving a white flag. I accept your surrender to reason.
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Revelation
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted March 17, 2010 05:35 PM |
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Be nice to each other, people!
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted March 17, 2010 05:52 PM |
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Edited by bixie at 18:06, 17 Mar 2010.
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Ah, the anti-Christian folk have forsaken all pretense of a rational discussion. I take that as you waving a white flag. I accept your surrender to reason.
You know, I wonder whether I could use you're line of thinking in exams.
"Ok, now what were the tribes that julius ceaser encountered on his way to britain?"
"Oh good, it's nice to see that you have conseeded that the forces of righteousness triumph over you're way of thinking. I see you wave the white flag and I accept your surrender."
answer the bloody questions, you cretin!
if Jesus did return to teach his disciples something, what did he teach them?
Also, is Jesus Christ a zombie or a vampire?
Similarly, if it turns out that the "god" of the bible was actually a mortal, if incredibly powerful, alien, who did all the acts in the bible, how would you react?
If you could meet god and have a ten minute discussion with him, what would you ask him?
If God was a woman, and considering that she is an all perfect being she was able to conceive a child/avatar in the form of another woman, would homosexuality be an offense?
if God is omnibenevolent, why is there so much suffering in the world, wars, disease, famine and so on? if you say "Oh, he's testing us" then he's not omnibenevolent, good intentions or otherwise, an omni-benevolent being doesn't consider whether someone is worthy of their love, they would automatically give they're love.
If it turns out that Islam is the correct religion, what would you do?
If buddhism turns out to be the correct religion, what would you do?
If egyptian sun god worship turns out to be the correct religion, what would you do?
if you anser the three above with "well, they're not," can you be sure? have you talked to god, personally, face to face, and asked him? if so, show me a recording, show me evidence.
what is Jesus christ was just a good man, and not god incarnate or the son of god?
Elodin, if you truly value you're belief, then you will answer these questions. However, if you are just a cowardly bigot, then you would ignore them and call me an Anti-theist, or just respond with "because they are," or "no, that will never happen". I want to understand where you are coming from in you're belief, and whether you have considered all the possiblities. understanding religion is understanding possiblities outside of human understanding, it's a science that exists on possiblities and ideas, and to close you're mind to such ideas is to blinker yourself from whatever truth is out there. blind faith is an irksome burdern on humanity, as it causes nothing but death and ignorance. a blinkered view has created more strife than an open view ever has.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted March 17, 2010 06:04 PM |
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Most monotheistic religions advocate a very similar point and, if God was really such a great guy as those others seem to think he is, I'm sure he will exhibit some form of leniency in the afterlife, anyway.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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stankelbenet
Adventuring Hero
bringer of nostalgia & darknes
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posted March 17, 2010 06:44 PM |
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1st question:
I believe he didn't teach them anything but he proved to them that he was the son of God. He also corrected the mistakes they had made while he was dying and after his death.
2nd question:
Jesus is the son of God. Don't mess it up with fantasy. Gods can't die so Jesus didn't die
3rd question:
Christians believe in the new testament, not the old. It's so easy to attack the old testament, while christians only believe in few small selected parts of it. Try coming up with some new interesting questions please.
4th question:
How do we stop the hatred between atheists and theists?
5th question:
Just couldn't stop laughing . I think somewhere in the bible it's written that God is a man
6th question:
Deism I think it's called. God created the world and then left it. The fact is that we are not supposed to have fun while living on the earth. Our lifespan here is just to see how many sins we can commit during our life and how many years we must suffer in Hell before going to Paradise.
7, 8 and 9th question:
I really don't know. I'm an atheist and fully believe in the wonders of science but if some God should show his face (and not just on some photoshopped video on youtube but right in front of me) I think I would convert shortly after. What would you do Bixie?
10th question:
It's hard for an ordinary human turning water into wine and walking on the water
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted March 17, 2010 07:11 PM |
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Quote:
1st question:
I believe he didn't teach them anything but he proved to them that he was the son of God. He also corrected the mistakes they had made while he was dying and after his death.
Fair enough...
can he make a return visit and correct all the atrocities done in his name?
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3rd question:
Christians believe in the new testament, not the old. It's so easy to attack the old testament, while christians only believe in few small selected parts of it. Try coming up with some new interesting questions please.
correction, they believe in both. If they only believed in mainly 1, then they would simply make a book with the stuff they only believe in and miss out all the other stuff.
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4th question:
How do we stop the hatred between atheists and theists?
cool, I would have asked him if he's ever read the satanic verses by solman rushdie and what did he think of it.
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5th question:
Just couldn't stop laughing. I think somewhere in the bible it's written that God is a man
a simple counter would be, what if the bible was wrong?
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6th question:
Deism I think it's called. God created the world and then left it. The fact is that we are not supposed to have fun while living on the earth. Our lifespan here is just to see how many sins we can commit during our life and how many years we must suffer in Hell before going to Paradise.
fair enough.
you know most of the founding fathers in the states were either deist or abviliant about god.
the land of the evangelicals, founded by the people they hate.
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7, 8 and 9th question:
I really don't know. I'm an atheist and fully believe in the wonders of science but if some God should show his face (and not just on some photoshopped video on youtube but right in front of me) I think I would convert shortly after. What would you do Bixie?
I would probably stop believing and actually start to know that a god of some kind is real.
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10th question:
It's hard for an ordinary human turning water into wine and walking on the water
ah, the wonders of advertising.
I brought a pen off EBAY, it was said to be a fountain pen for caligraphy (it's a prop for a play, so), when I got it, it was just a cheap biro.
the wonders of advertising.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 17, 2010 07:18 PM |
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Quote:
3rd question:
Christians believe in the new testament, not the old. It's so easy to attack the old testament, while christians only believe in few small selected parts of it. Try coming up with some new interesting questions please.
That's strange because Jesus himself did believe in the OT. At least that's wjat you can read in the new one.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted March 17, 2010 07:34 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 19:36, 17 Mar 2010.
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Quote:
Quote:
Ah, the anti-Christian folk have forsaken all pretense of a rational discussion. I take that as you waving a white flag. I accept your surrender to reason.
You know, I wonder whether I could use you're line of thinking in exams.
Since you have demonstrated no sound reasoning ability of your own you should certainly use someone elses reasoning!
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answer the bloody questions, you cretin!
Very well, though you seem to be unable to converse without insulting me.
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if Jesus did return to teach his disciples something, what did he teach them?
We are not told everything Christ taught his disciples after his resurrection. We do know that he corrected their misunderstandings about what he had come to do and pointed out his mission in the prophicies of the Old Covenant.
Quote:
Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Quote:
Act 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
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Also, is Jesus Christ a zombie or a vampire?
That is an innane question. Jesus rose in a glorified [incorruptable] human body. Jesus does not drink blood. Only an idiot would think Jesus is a vampire. Jesus is God existing as a [now glorified] man.
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Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
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Similarly, if it turns out that the "god" of the bible was actually a mortal, if incredibly powerful, alien, who did all the acts in the bible, how would you react?
Your hypothetical question is impossible. Jesus is God existing as a man. God is not an alien. An alien would hve needed a Creator.
The universe needed a cause to get it kicked off. The first cause could only be self-existant, immaterial, spaceless, timeless, intelligent, and powerful. God.
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If you could meet god and have a ten minute discussion with him, what would you ask him?
I talk to God daily and am filled with his Spirit. I pray for myself, my family and friends, people I meet on the internet and whatever else that I am compelled to pray for.
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If God was a woman, and considering that she is an all perfect being she was able to conceive a child/avatar in the form of another woman, would homosexuality be an offense?
God is a genderless Spirit who also exists as the man Jesus Christ. God has said that homosexual sex is sin.
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if God is omnibenevolent, why is there so much suffering in the world, wars, disease, famine and so on? if you say "Oh, he's testing us" then he's not omnibenevolent, good intentions or otherwise, an omni-benevolent being doesn't consider whether someone is worthy of their love, they would automatically give they're love.
God told man to do good but some men chose to do evil. Man is the cause of suffering in the world. We live in a fallen wolrd becasue of the sin of man.
When the day comes that Christ returns to judge the world he will set things right and the universe will be "made new." No more death, pain, or suffering for his followers.
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If it turns out that Islam is the correct religion, what would you do?
I already explained earlier in this thread why Allah can't be God. The God described in the Bible is God and matches the requirements for the Creator of the all. One of the reasons is the Qu'ran itslef says Allah is a liar. He lied to his prophet to get him to do somehting. I'll not bother to look up the verses again, but if you are actually interested, look at my posts in this thread and you'll find where I addressed the issue.
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If buddhism turns out to be the correct religion, what would you do?
Sorry, I have received the Spirit of God. I know Buddhism is wrong. Jesus is Lord.
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If egyptian sun god worship turns out to be the correct religion, what would you do?
See above.
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if you anser the three above with "well, they're not," can you be sure? have you talked to god, personally, face to face, and asked him? if so, show me a recording, show me evidence.
Yes, I have talked to my God and am filled with his Spirit. I have never seen a vision of God. The evidence of God is all around you. You would not accept anything as evidence. Your "questions" and demeanor show you are not seriously seeking truth.
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what is Jesus christ was just a good man, and not god incarnate or the son of god?
That would be impossible. Jesus claimed to be God. So he was either God or a liar.
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I want to understand where you are coming from in you're belief, and whether you have considered all the possiblities. understanding religion is understanding possiblities outside of human understanding, it's a science that exists on possiblities and ideas, and to close you're mind to such ideas is to blinker yourself from whatever truth is out there. blind faith is an irksome burdern on humanity, as it causes nothing but death and ignorance. a blinkered view has created more strife than an open view ever has.
Christianity is based on revelation from God, not on the musings of man. I have always followed where the truth has lead me. My ears are open to his voice and mine eyes I have not shut to his revelations.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted March 17, 2010 07:42 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 19:43, 17 Mar 2010.
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Quote:
Quote:
3rd question:
Christians believe in the new testament, not the old. It's so easy to attack the old testament, while christians only believe in few small selected parts of it. Try coming up with some new interesting questions please.
That's strange because Jesus himself did believe in the OT. At least that's wjat you can read in the new one.
Jesus said the Old Testament was the command of God and explained prophecies that pertained to him out of it.
Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Jesus also quoted the Old Testament on a number of occastions. Here, for instance, claiming that his ministry is fulfillment of these verses.
Quote:
Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears
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Revelation
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 17, 2010 08:09 PM |
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Which is the heart of one of the problems:
You can't get the love-and-peace hippie-son without the gay-bashing, chauvinistm, militant, arch-conservative father.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted March 17, 2010 08:13 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 20:14, 17 Mar 2010.
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Which is the heart of one of the problems:
You can't get the love-and-peace hippie-son without the gay-bashing, chauvinistm, militant, arch-conservative father.
Lie about God all you want. Yes, God said gay sex is sin. It ia a lie to say he is a "gay basher." That would imply he does not love gays, but he does.
It is a lie to say God is chauvinistic. God loves everyone and the Bible says there is no difference betweeen races or genders. Women can bear chldren and men can't. Does that make women better than men? Is that your complaint?
"Arch conservative?" What, so you define what the rules are? Doesn't that make you the "arch conservative" then? Somewhat hypocritical, I think.
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Revelation
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted March 17, 2010 08:18 PM |
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Edited by bixie at 20:25, 17 Mar 2010.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Ah, the anti-Christian folk have forsaken all pretense of a rational discussion. I take that as you waving a white flag. I accept your surrender to reason.
You know, I wonder whether I could use you're line of thinking in exams.
Since you have demonstrated no sound reasoning ability of your own you should certainly use someone elses reasoning!
whose's insulting whom, now?
Quote:
Quote:
if Jesus did return to teach his disciples something, what did he teach them?
We are not told everything Christ taught his disciples after his resurrection. We do know that he corrected their misunderstandings about what he had come to do and pointed out his mission in the prophicies of the Old Covenant.
Quote:
Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Quote:
Act 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Why?
Why are we not told everything? Why are we not told this possibly vital information about how to be better christians? what if that point Jesus came out of the closet? what if he sat down with peter and said "I wish I knew how to quit you!"?
Also, do you have any other books apart from the bible and whatever crap the young earth creationists have spewed out?
Quote:
Quote:
Also, is Jesus Christ a zombie or a vampire?
That is an innane question. Jesus rose in a glorified [incorruptable] human body. Jesus does not drink blood. Only an idiot would think Jesus is a vampire. Jesus is God existing as a [now glorified] man.
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Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Daystar, you hear that?!
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Similarly, if it turns out that the "god" of the bible was actually a mortal, if incredibly powerful, alien, who did all the acts in the bible, how would you react?
Your hypothetical question is impossible. Jesus is God existing as a man. God is not an alien. An alien would hve needed a Creator.
The universe needed a cause to get it kicked off. The first cause could only be self-existant, immaterial, spaceless, timeless, intelligent, and powerful. God.
fine, you claim first cause was god, and I claim it's a monkey having an accident trying to brew beer, as both have exactly the same amount of logical, rational evidence to prove it.
also, I wasn't talking about first cause, I was talking about the acts of the bible. If the plague of frogs, the parting of the red sea, the destruction of jericho, was all done by an alien, rather than god, would you believe in that alien. and also, apart from the bible and other religious texts, what's to say that Jesus wasn't simply a good, moral man? or that he performed his miracles with alien technology.
remember, we live in a society nowadays that would have seemed impossible at the time that jesus existed. Cures for diseases, food readily available, flight, weapons that you don't need to pull back and they kill more men than a whole army of archers. if we could travel back in time to that point, we would be gods by they're acount!
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If you could meet god and have a ten minute discussion with him, what would you ask him?
I talk to God daily and am filled with his Spirit. I pray for myself, my family and friends, people I meet on the internet and whatever else that I am compelled to pray for.
"filled with his spirit" (vaguely homosexual there, but lets carry on)
no, not sitting down and asking him for him to give people his omnibenevolence, but sitting down, with a cup of tea (hypothetical tea, I don't think god drinks earl grey) have a decent conversation with him, rather than worship him. Treat him as a human being and ask him a question that he answers. engage his brain in coming up with an answer!
If praying makes you feel god, then knock yourself out, but if you're deity is all knowing, he won't mind you questioning him then, will he?
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If God was a woman, and considering that she is an all perfect being she was able to conceive a child/avatar in the form of another woman, would homosexuality be an offense?
God is a genderless Spirit who also exists as the man Jesus Christ. God has said that homosexual sex is sin.
"let a man who lies with another man be stoned" (paraphasing, please put in correct verse)
what if two men were tired, there was nowhere else to sleep apart from a single bed, and they slept there? Also, if god was a woman, then she could get away with it, because the passage is about men, not women. obviously god doesn't mind lesbians.
Whatever, I don't care, I'm a liberal semi-pagan bisexual limey, I'm going to hell in you're book.
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if God is omnibenevolent, why is there so much suffering in the world, wars, disease, famine and so on? if you say "Oh, he's testing us" then he's not omnibenevolent, good intentions or otherwise, an omni-benevolent being doesn't consider whether someone is worthy of their love, they would automatically give they're love.
God told man to do good but some men chose to do evil. Man is the cause of suffering in the world. We live in a fallen wolrd becasue of the sin of man.
When the day comes that Christ returns to judge the world he will set things right and the universe will be "made new." No more death, pain, or suffering for his followers.
he's not omnibenevolent then, is he.
1) he doesn't love us because of the fact that some men f**k up.
2) he's getting his sone to judge the world and only letting his followers in, rather than everyone.
3) if he was omnibenevolent, as christians had often said, then he would love and forgive everyone.
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If it turns out that Islam is the correct religion, what would you do?
I already explained earlier in this thread why Allah can't be God. The God described in the Bible is God and matches the requirements for the Creator of the all. One of the reasons is the Qu'ran itslef says Allah is a liar. He lied to his prophet to get him to do somehting. I'll not bother to look up the verses again, but if you are actually interested, look at my posts in this thread and you'll find where I addressed the issue.
and what if the bible is wrong or you're requirements for a creator is wrong? What if Allah is a liar to test the faith of Muhammad, like God tested Lot by doing far, far worse to him.
free you're mind, man!
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If buddhism turns out to be the correct religion, what would you do?
Sorry, I have received the Spirit of God. I know Buddhism is wrong. Jesus is Lord.
and what if jesus is not the lord, and buddha is the one who has truly assended? what if the spirit of god you recieved was simply a delusion?
free you're mind, man!
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If egyptian sun god worship turns out to be the correct religion, what would you do?
See above.
What if Jesus was Horus reincarnated, or that the bible was just trying to resell the ancient egyptian religion (there are alot of similarities!). What if you're wrong? if you're so adement you're right, then what happens if you're wrong? are you foolish enough not to have a backup plan? If the gamble of you're soul is as high a price as you claim it is, then what happens if you're bet on the wrong deity?
free you're mind, man!
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if you anser the three above with "well, they're not," can you be sure? have you talked to god, personally, face to face, and asked him? if so, show me a recording, show me evidence.
Yes, I have talked to my God and am filled with his Spirit. I have never seen a vision of God. The evidence of God is all around you. You would not accept anything as evidence. Your "questions" and demeanor show you are not seriously seeking truth.
"filled with his spirit" (vaguely homosexual there, but lets carry on)
Truth seeking is asking questions, you numpty! the evidence of god is not, "all around us", the evidence of nature, evolution, science and wonderfully, wonderfully, simple human nature is all around us, not god. the tree outside my window is not evidence of god, it is evidence that there was a seed at one time and it grew into a tree, not that god placed a tree into the ground.
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what is Jesus christ was just a good man, and not god incarnate or the son of god?
That would be impossible. Jesus claimed to be God. So he was either God or a liar.
Well, maybe he did lie? does that make him a bad person? no, of course not! You are worshiping the man and not taking away what he taught!
Have you ever seen casablanca? remember humpry bogart, who lies to protect someone else's feelings? is he a bad person?
there is no such thing as absolute truth, Science is not about absolute truth, history is not about absolute truth, it's about modification, experimentation and discovery to get us closer to said truth. in this world there is no such thing as an absolute, and, to sound completely hypocritical for the purposes of dramatic effect, that is the absolute truth!!
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I want to understand where you are coming from in you're belief, and whether you have considered all the possiblities. understanding religion is understanding possiblities outside of human understanding, it's a science that exists on possiblities and ideas, and to close you're mind to such ideas is to blinker yourself from whatever truth is out there. blind faith is an irksome burdern on humanity, as it causes nothing but death and ignorance. a blinkered view has created more strife than an open view ever has.
Christianity is based on revelation from God, not on the musings of man. I have always followed where the truth has lead me. My ears are open to his voice and mine eyes I have not shut to his revelations.
right, whilst you open you're eyes to you're god and you're god alone, due to "Revelations", you ignore all the other possiblities around you, all the wonderous cultures and ideas of other peoples religion. You seal yourself in bastion of arrogance and focus you're attention skyward to a deity that might not exist and you think.
Elodin, You can accept that god is the ultimate being if you want, be if so, then he won't mind you exploring and questioning him about certain stuff, he won't mind you trying to understand something beyond a little book written by his followers. "goddunnit" is the lazy excuse for not exploring posssiblities.
Edit: also!
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Which is the heart of one of the problems:
You can't get the love-and-peace hippie-son without the gay-bashing, chauvinistm, militant, arch-conservative father.
Lie about God all you want. Yes, God said gay sex is sin. It ia a lie to say he is a "gay basher." That would imply he does not love gays, but he does.
No, he only loves them if they renounce that sin!
what if they don't want to? that's like a husband saying "I'll only love you, honey, if you stitch up you're mouth for me!"
also, JJ, have you read about john lennon's father? he was a nutjob!
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It is a lie to say God is chauvinistic. God loves everyone and the Bible says there is no difference betweeen races or genders. Women can bear chldren and men can't. Does that make women better than men? Is that your complaint?
well, considering he blamed Eve for the whole apple debacle "And you shall feel pain in child birth athousand fold", and quite alot of stuff after that, yes, I think he does.
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"Arch conservative?" What, so you define what the rules are? Doesn't that make you the "arch conservative" then? Somewhat hypocritical, I think.
no, no it does not!
also, I note that you don't reject militant. :3
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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