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| Thread: If we tried to reach something real and equal or greater than us... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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mvassilev
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posted December 31, 2009 05:07 AM |
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I don't think there's any kind of "ghost in the machine", as both Dagoth and BB are implying. There's not some kind of special quality to consciousness.
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If, then, you dissemble your body (kill yourself) and reassemble it, there would be a new consciousness piloting that person, just as there would be a new body.
If the person within is unable to tell that it happened, then it's the same consciousness.
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blizzardboy
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posted December 31, 2009 05:28 AM |
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No, it's a replica. The ink cartridge in my printer is not the same one as the last one, though they are structurally virtually identical.
edit: @Dagoth: AFAIK brain cells will reproduce. They originally thought they didn't, but then they were like, "O wait".
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DagothGares
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posted December 31, 2009 05:29 AM |
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and the discussion ends there.
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mvassilev
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posted December 31, 2009 05:58 AM |
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No, it's a replica. The ink cartridge in my printer is not the same one as the last one, though they are structurally virtually identical.
Printer cartridges don't have consciousness.
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DagothGares
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posted December 31, 2009 06:38 AM |
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I said...
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lucky_dwarf
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posted December 31, 2009 04:15 PM |
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(excuse me for bringing religion into this but...)
You can't destroy your consciousness because its not attached to the brain. The brain is like a unique receptor(imo) your consciousness(or spirit) lobs on to the brain. Through teleportation you dissemble yourself and recreate yourself, exactly the same. Meaning the consciousness simply has to lob onto another brain that is the exactly the same, only in a different place. Hence you kill yourself, while you don't end your existance.
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TheDeath
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posted December 31, 2009 04:58 PM |
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The only functional difference between an illusory and a non-illusory world is that if you're living in an illusory world (say, the Matrix), and something goes wrong, you can die of reasons you could completely not predict or prevent. It's a question of security, nothing more.
What are you talking about? You don't even know if the universe itself is not a simulation. And how can you prevent something like Heat Death or Big Crunch as well? It's not only the Matrix having impossible problems to solve...
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Well yeah, but if a lab rat told you not to give it shots, that would be different.
I think it does. Why do you keep it in a cage then if do you think it is doing it voluntarily? 
@mvass: you assume that consciousness is just an advanced form of memory. But we don't know that.
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Celfious
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From earth
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posted December 31, 2009 06:21 PM |
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umm
i would want to have some normal conversation with them about random things.
What do they do for nourishment?
If they have taste buds do they have foods similar to ours?
Do they have drug problems and what about cannabis.. Is it a gift from aliens since it has 100 basic functions leading to 10's of thousands of uses? There are many distinct traits about the plant that are not shared with any other.
Are they closed minded like many of us to a completely different story but having similarities to another popular story?
Then I would ask the questions that kind of made me who I am today.
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mvassilev
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posted December 31, 2009 06:24 PM |
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You don't even know if the universe itself is not a simulation.
Exactly. If we were to construct a pleasant Matrix-like world, presumably we would make it easy to get out of if one wants to, at least for reasons of security. However, no such option is available for the universe.
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blizzardboy
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posted December 31, 2009 06:38 PM |
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There are plenty of ways to get out of it. I bet I could get out of it within 30 seconds from now if I really wanted to. There's an electric socket right next to me and some metal scissors within arm reach.
That was just for the lulz.
If this universe is a simulation it's more than likely for creative, educational, or scientific reasons. It's pretty obvious it's not for utopian living.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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TheDeath
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posted December 31, 2009 06:57 PM |
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There are plenty of ways to get out of it. I bet I could get out of it within 30 seconds from now if I really wanted to. There's an electric socket right next to me and some metal scissors within arm reach.
But your mind doesn't control the real body anymore, all the signals get sent to the matrix's processor 
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blizzardboy
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posted December 31, 2009 07:14 PM |
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I just meant terminating this particular instance (instance as in the noun).
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Celfious
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From earth
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posted December 31, 2009 07:18 PM |
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I would ask them if they have noticed how many of our movies involve a struggle against some negative element, and that the positive generally prevails. Many of these movies have an additional element of some imminent 'ending of existence' at stake as well.
Does it say something about humanity that there are few, very few movies where sheer evil triumphs? We can find many stories where this occurs, however the mainstream cinemas and television rarely distributes this type of story.
The good guys always win, has been a fabled castle in the sky, maybe we on earth are not guys in the story of reality, or if not this then maybe such fantasy will never rip through into our existence.
It says something to me at least, I am glad that at least where our hearts our, a majority is disturbed by pure evil in such a way that stories with no positive message but only evil are scarce and disgust many.
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DagothGares
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posted December 31, 2009 07:40 PM |
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Good-and-evil-thinking is far too simplistic and I hoped we evolved beyond that point in cultural media. At least, theatre plays don't exhibit this tendency to make it a simple good vs evil struggle.
What we show in our cultural media says much about us, but the simple good vs evil stories don't. It only shows we want the nice people to win. It's the grittier or artsier stories that tend to say more about us than the simple: "Consumerist society, these guys'll watch anything, look at Michael Bay, lulz!"
In fact, the tiranny of simplicity (and there IS one) (it's something like idiocracy, but a lot less malicious) is what I find to be worse. I followed the presidential elections of the US (due to unfortunate circumstances) for 2008 and I found that things were portrayed as very very simplistic in nature. Seriously, I watched CNN about an hour a day, nine months prior to the election of president Obama and I had a really hard time figuring out what their stances on subjects were. Oh, sure, I knew the archetypes they were putting forth, but if pressed, I wouldn't be able to tell what the difference was between Hilary Clinton and Obama, other than that one was female and the other had darker skin.
Anyway, literature also becomes simpler, if we just look at the twilight novels and Dan brown novels (yes, I read them. I'm allowed to brand them as tripe now), you know, the books that sell better. What really irks me is that it's not a one-time thing. When a book series is as succesful as twilight it changes the book industry (yes, it has), giving non-talented hacks gigantic piles of money, eliminating several potential writers and publishers and creating a bigger focus on semi-erotic superficial teenager-oriented literature.
And I blame the consumer! Yeah, you! You make me sick!
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We can find many stories where this occurs, however the mainstream cinemas and television rarely distributes this type of story.
You know why? It doesn't sell. I heard people say that King Kong souldn't have died at the end. Really? Let me guess, Romeo and Juliet should also have lived happily ever after?
The simplification of culture is not a good sign of hope for the human race. (Obviously, my position is easily criticised. There is a difference between what is and what should have been and people always whine about this generation being worse than the previous. I still think I'm right, though!)
What I think is perhaps a plausible argument for humanity is the solidarity (organisations like the red cross and what not and people donating money to a good cause. People mean well.)
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TheDeath
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posted December 31, 2009 07:46 PM |
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Simplicity is key everywhere. Didn't Einstein say that?
and I don't know about you, but in most cases, I don't like the bad guys and I like it when they get their ass kicked. There are exceptions.
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DagothGares
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posted December 31, 2009 07:58 PM |
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One of my favourite book series doesn't have bad guys, neither does it have good guys. Tell you what, it has people who have conflicting goals, but not one can be put as objectively good or as objectively bad.
Watchmen also doesn't really have bad guys. Though, in that case, it's true that some characters behave in a morally questionable way.
And actually, I usually root for the underdog bad guy
Of course, when they're portrayed cartoonishly evil (like the nazis in indiana jones!) I'm obviously rooting for the hero, but that's putting things in a simple way and simplicity is a treacherous road via cultural and social media. This isn't math or a joke, TD. Simplicity may be the soul of wit, but sometimes I don't need something witty, sometimes I need a serious reply, rather lengthy, well-presented and still to the point
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TheDeath
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posted December 31, 2009 08:03 PM |
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Short answer: you like dramas.
Why didn't you say so?
They are not the only genre you know, although they can get mixed.
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DagothGares
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posted December 31, 2009 08:09 PM |
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Fine, go watch transformers, then.
*head explodes due to black-and-white statement*
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TheDeath
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posted December 31, 2009 08:12 PM |
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You seriously mean you don't like action scenes?  (in general, not specific)
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DagothGares
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posted December 31, 2009 08:18 PM |
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It can definitely have its own merits and it can be a work of art, but at the end of the day, it's nothing but pretty lights with no greater value or story. Not much to talk about after the movie, right? "Dude, I liked that scene where things went boom!" I object to people just making stuff look good and then selling it for huge profits and people who put thought in their work earning barely enough to scrape by. I have a problem with Michael Bay and Stephenie Meyer
And sometimes action can be rather misplaced...
Thinking of the watchmen movie, now...
Oh, well, in the end I'm just an elitist snob
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