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| Thread: If we tried to reach something real and equal or greater than us... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted January 04, 2010 03:26 AM |
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still wouldnt mind to hear how ya'll would address a what is considered today an unknown intelligence if it happened to appear. Or if we just shouted out random messages in hopes if there is something it would listen.
questions to ask about us, them, their potential understanding of our history, what do they know that we do not?
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TheDeath
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Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 04, 2010 03:35 AM |
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Yeah random, or rather, a bulk of varied messages might be the optimal way given our information about them, or rather lack of it. It doesn't really make much sense to codify that information in a specific digital code because that would only make it extremely hard to crack for someone who doesn't have our (inferior) language.
There could be one other more optimal solution, to use properties of the Universe as the basis of the code (or language) for transmission -- that's assuming that our understanding of the Universe is somewhat correct and they have the same, so they would share some basic principles. You know, stuff like waves and such are pretty natural and probably shared by the "advanced" intelligence we want to communicate with.
Resorting to human-made concepts for communication is the worst choice you can possibly take.
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
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lucky_dwarf
Promising
Supreme Hero
Visiting
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posted January 04, 2010 04:21 AM |
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i would go with a bulk of pictures, sound and peace greetings.
oh and death,
Why would our language be inferior to theirs? Would they have more description for words? Would they have the ability to soothe the nerves?
After all, evolution has been battering our bodies into speaking machines by chance, the aliens would have a similar method of communication, but it might vary on level.
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So much has changed in my absence.
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E-J
Known Hero
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posted January 04, 2010 04:29 AM |
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i would show them "Rick Astley - Never Gonna Give You Up" after telling them they are going to see something vitally important 
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted January 04, 2010 04:33 AM |
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Edited by Celfious at 05:13, 04 Jan 2010.
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Quote:
Resorting to human-made concepts for communication is the worst choice you can possibly take.
we dont know this. We dont even know if our own communication is derived from other forms. We do know of mysterious facts about the world.
Nazca Lines. Anyone prehistory or that we know about who could accomplish this knew something. We dont know who or why, but we know it is not visible underneath elevation in the sky required by plane or greater. Miles, miles large, yet almost precise and metrically flawless, and near what many feel are air strips.
starchild there is more to this bone than its shape
Pumapunku is thought by many who look into its details as more mysterious than egypt itself. Granite blocks cut with precision some weighing even 800 Tons. Even mechanical engineers today marvel, would require a cutting tool harder, which, is known to us only as diamond, yet the precision of cuts and grooves were nearly perfect, and who made this we dont know. This is considered by a lot of people the greatest known mystery considering tangible facts
piri reis map is a chart made in a time where we could not have charted Antarctica let alone uniced
Antikythera Mechanism is extremely advanced considering the mechanical peak of the era in the treasures of alexandria etc, could be a watch? perhaps?
the list goes on and these are only the things we know of
Anyways, I could go on with these mysteries but the point here is its a mystery. I dont know if anything could or would listen but I would like to know anything I could about their mind set and history if they exist.
P.S. im a little fuzzy on the facts so i gave links.
-edits complete
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted January 04, 2010 04:39 AM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 04:42, 04 Jan 2010.
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Quote:
i would go with a bulk of pictures, sound and peace greetings.
That's not quite how it would work. The reason you need a bulk messages as varied as possible, not just one-sided (i.e "peace"), is because the more data you have available for different things and words, the easier it is to crack a foreign code. Key words that repeat themselves on different messages enable this. Likewise, words such as "war" with adequate phrases will make more relationships between the word 'war' and 'peace' for instance, and between phrases, so it would be easier to crack it. Generally the more varied the data the better. However data that is 100% varied and never ever repeats (I mean the words, not the meanings!) is just as worse as non-varied data.
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Why would our language be inferior to theirs? Would they have more description for words? Would they have the ability to soothe the nerves?
I assumed so since this thread is about beings "greater than us".
And our languages are obviously not optimal -- that doesn't mean that aliens necessarily have better ones, however, since the assumption of this thread is about beings greater than us, then we ignore those with an inferior language
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted January 04, 2010 04:51 AM |
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Edited by Celfious at 05:08, 04 Jan 2010.
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well i am sorry then
i used our language to explain to our kind a basic message but for the most part I dont usually try not to think in terms of who is better or worse (superior / inferior)
Language may be more fitting and stuff but I generally refer simply to the potential beings who know more about ourselves than we do in certain areas.
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted January 04, 2010 05:44 AM |
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Quote:
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Implying that I molest kids is an evil and perverted thing to do and speaks volumes about what type of person you are. That would certainly be a severe COC violation but since when have anti-theists been held accountalbe for that?
You still see things and conspiracies where there is none. You asked for an even playing field and got it. I've been butting out. You want the penalties to start flying..I can do that.
Edit : Just be careful what you wish for. Because there will be no warnings, no 'taking it back' (ie editing for removal of penalty), and the CoC would be adhered to the letter, not the 'spirit'. So .. go ahead, now is your chance. Should I get reinvolved in the childish bickering and play 'nanny'?
Nah, don't worry about it. Since it seems to be ok to call one community member a child molester I'm guessing that standard will be applied consistantly and any community member can then be called a child molester without consequences since you said there is an equal playing field.
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Implying that I molest kids is an evil and perverted thing to do and speaks volumes about what type of person you are.
No, it's not. It's a genuine remark. Seriously, why do you need to reference it EVERY, SINGLE time? It's really distasteful of you.
So if someone said you tied up little boys and raped them in your basement, that would be "genuine remark" eh?
I present the baby rape argument becasue it shows the utter folly of "relativistic morality."
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DagothGares
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Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted January 04, 2010 06:17 AM |
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So if someone said you tied up little boys and raped them in your basement, that would be "genuine remark" eh?
No, dude, Corribus just said you might have issues, because you feel the overpowering need to reference it every time. It's just plain distasteful, man. When socrates wanted to talk about something undeniably wrong, he used murder, because he believed in the intrinsic value of life. I KNOW! A non-christian, great thinker valued life. How the hell did that come about?
Now, seriously, elodin, cut it with those two words.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 04, 2010 03:49 PM |
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Wait, I'm confused. Who called someone a child molester? 
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted January 04, 2010 03:51 PM |
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I only read a false accusation that you did.
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The empty set
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 04, 2010 03:59 PM |
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Quote:
Wait, I'm confused. Who called someone a child molester?
Isn't it the message we want to send out to aliens?
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blizzardboy
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Nerf Herder
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posted January 04, 2010 04:02 PM |
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I wouldn't want to meet the aliens that would arrive in response to that message.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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JollyJoker
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posted January 04, 2010 04:07 PM |
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Them aliens would learn everything there is to learn about us by digesting the satellite TV broadcasts they could doubtlessly receive - so why bother with a message?
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted January 04, 2010 05:13 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 17:27, 04 Jan 2010.
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our satellites have very little positive about them. Our basic existence is a blemish on this world. We neglect simple methods from the government down to the people which would contribute to our own salvation.
We as a whole are like ciggerate smokers. Except there is no physical addiction to our suicide.
If you wish to die, then go for it.
By the way joker I think it to be interesting how you are so certain that said potential existences could and would use our satellites.
But on the other hand, who said our satellites were a means of anything but feeding ourselves with our own propaganda and the other few reasons of transmitting messages?
I am pretty sure I was asking something along the lines of what would we say to them given some specific avenue of transmission / greeting, or outcry. Not really sure where you would get the notion that there is no difference from speaking to a neighbor or the neighbors placing spy gear in my life. Is there no difference? I could go to my neighbor now and say things but there's no point because he could tap my phone and put cameras in my apartment. How is this the same thing Joker? I am gonna tell him to tap my place instead of me going to ask for a glass of water and assume the situation will resolve itself if it will at all.
By the way I have actually met my neighbor but its a fair perspective that we of this age have not met anyone but ourselves. It makes sense though to assume what they could and would do. It's cool I will go get those wire taps right now, i cut my hand off and im dying but its okay because they wired my house so ill just wait here
if we find a world or something with other intelligent life lets remember to hack their satellites and read more about how self destructive and power hungry they are before we go say hello.
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JollyJoker
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posted January 04, 2010 05:50 PM |
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Does anything you say negate the fact that the aliens could learn anything there is to learn from our TV program?
If, after that, they still had any wish to communicate, so be it - and no reason to think about a special message.
Special messages are lies anyway, like a diplomatic communique, phrased carefully so that a favorite impression is made.
I don't care about that.
We are what we are. Period.
If you want to repent your sins and make a favorite impression - people do that over thousand years, going to church, praying, begging foregiveness and mercy, trying to make a favorite impression... why bother?
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted January 04, 2010 06:24 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 18:30, 04 Jan 2010.
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you assume to much
and i dont think putting my ear on someones door serves what communication could
and media is not truth or wait, maybe I should believe everything i read and see on TV, god forbid I move to another country and find even more conflict in the media.
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Keksimaton
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Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
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posted January 04, 2010 06:25 PM |
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Quote:
I present the baby rape argument becasue it shows the utter folly of "relativistic morality."
I'd be willing to argue the baby rape argument.
In Africa it is a common belief that deflowering a virgin can cure AIDS. Baby rapings are not that rare either. Some sociologists believe that these two go hand in hand.
One might believe raping a baby to be the right thing to do since it's the cure for AIDS, unless the baby has already been used once. Continue treatment with regular doses of baby rape, twice a day: Once in the morning, once in the evening.
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We are what we are. Period.
We can change and I'd even argue that we have been changing all the time.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted January 04, 2010 06:30 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 18:31, 04 Jan 2010.
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the thread is high jacked anyways, but I already know to not argue with you JJ.. If you want to join the crowd since page 1 and stray off topic go for it.
I think the intended question was about what we would say, not if speaking is pointless.
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JollyJoker
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posted January 04, 2010 08:05 PM |
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The trouble is, you don't see the point.
The point is that we already talk volumes. And when I say TV I mean the news part and the entertainment part.
And Keksi, I don't think we've changed much under the hood or under the - rather thin - layer of civilization.
Now, what I'm bristling about is that quasi-religious touch this gets. I mean, did ANY human culture coming to another human culture solve the problems of the latter? Correct me, if I'm wrong, but I don't think so - there may be some exceptions, mainly by conquest and assimilation, but I suppose that's not desirable by mainstream human ideology that sells freedom as highest good and so on.
So aliens wouldn't be much more alien to us than the Europeans were to the Indians or Central Africans some time ago; the sheer fact that they were technically superior would say nothing at all, and if our own history is any indication... well.
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