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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted November 05, 2010 06:34 PM |
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"in reality" is an unfitting term in this case. Better term it as "in Medieval Christian Angelology".
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Alustor
Famous Hero
ooo da :)
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posted November 05, 2010 08:31 PM |
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Quote:
In reality there are 9 orders of angels, celestial beings, organized in this hierarchy:
1 Angels
2 Archangels
3 Principalities
4 Powers
5 Virtues
6 Dominions
7 Thrones/Ophanim
8 Cherubim
9 Seraphim
Where angles are the weakest and seraphim are the most powerful, the name seraphim means "the burning ones." The Seraphim have six wings; two covering their faces, two covering their bodies ("feet"), and two with which they fly. It is said that such a bright light emanates from them that nothing, not even other angelic beings, can look upon them. It is also said that there are four of them surrounding God's throne, where they burn eternally from love and zeal for God.
`
actually it is
1 Angels
2 Archangels
3 Beginnings
4 Powers
5 Dominions
6 Ownings
7 Seraphims
8 Heruvims
9 Thrones
the thrones are the highest rank of angels,not the seraphims
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 05, 2010 08:56 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 20:57, 05 Nov 2010.
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Different sources? Only 5 of the names are the same and only Angel and Archangel match both name and 'rank'.
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radar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
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posted November 05, 2010 09:04 PM |
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It is Elrath who is Dragon God, not... Christ. So why do you care?
____________
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Alustor
Famous Hero
ooo da :)
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posted November 05, 2010 09:24 PM |
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Edited by Alustor at 04:31, 06 Nov 2010.
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i don t know from where he got the ranks but i got them from different sources that had the same rank with the one that i posted here
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Maken
Known Hero
Hail Hydra!
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posted November 05, 2010 10:07 PM |
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Well, the differences between the hierarchy of the nine choirs are not the (main) point. In all classifications Angels are the least powerful (or close to God or whatever). And by looking into descriptions of the choirs, I found some quite frightening, but that is off-topic.
I believe they shall call the bosses by names, giving them some individuality, or simply change to Archangel / Arch-Angel or even something else, since its just a few characters more than the actual name 
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 05, 2010 10:08 PM |
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Angels don't work here since it's their race. It's as if you were calling all human units in Haven "human pikeman", "human crossbowman", etc...
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blizz
Known Hero
of temper grace
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posted November 05, 2010 10:59 PM |
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Quote:
It is Elrath who is Dragon God, not... Christ. So why do you care?
what he said!
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted November 06, 2010 06:00 AM |
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The difficulty comes when you start making up definitions for existing words.
A wyvern, for instance, is a winged serpent with legs but no arms. But if you suddenly decide that a wyvern is a kind of feline creature that doesn't fly at all, you're not just "creating your own mythology and screw the status quo", but you're forcing everyone who plays your game to contradict what they know about the word itself. It's misinformation.
How would you feel if snakes were actually people, and the word "human" meant a specific breed of manatee?
It's an extreme comparison, but it isn't just about mythological accuracy. The word seraph has only ever referred to one of the highest orders of angels. When you change that word to make it a reference to shock troops, you'd better expect people to be up in arms about it.
Personally, I think that Seraph should be the upgrade; Celestial, which is a much more general term for "anything heavenly", ought to be the name of the base creature.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted November 06, 2010 08:15 AM |
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Sir Charles posted this on the official forum:
Sorry for the confusion guys. The Pit Lord IS the strongest unit for the inferno. You can call that a confirmation if you like. I got the order mixed up for some unknown reason, hence my earlier post. My apologies.
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted November 06, 2010 08:17 AM |
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That settles it. The Pit Fiend/Lord is the Inferno Champion.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 06, 2010 10:31 AM |
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So the Pit Fiend/Lord is the Champion after all. Or should be. Or isn't... Frankly, I think I'll wait for the release or at least the beta to get this confirmed. 
By the way, it seems like the current top tiers are deliberately presented as weaker than the tier 7s from HoMM V, so it is likely the ex-tier-7s to be bosses after all.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 06, 2010 10:56 AM |
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Quote:
So the Pit Fiend/Lord is the Champion after all. Or should be. Or isn't... Frankly, I think I'll wait for the release or at least the beta to get this confirmed.
By the way, it seems like the current top tiers are deliberately presented as weaker than the tier 7s from HoMM V, so it is likely the ex-tier-7s to be bosses after all.
I think, that it's more them cleaning up and reorganizing the power structure to be less cluttered.
I mean the Haven Champion unit is the same as it was in HV, just different names which seem to have no bearing on established angelic rankings at all.
I doubt all the bosses will be ex-tier-7s, especially seeing as there are 10 of them and the one we have seen seems to resemble some kind of snake/water elemental more then anything else.
The probability of a Devil or similar high ranking demon being a boss I rate high though.
It's likely less straightforward then that.
Again, that's just my thoughts on the subject.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted November 06, 2010 11:05 AM |
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He didn't say all the bosses would be ex-tier 7s, but that the tier 7s from H5 would appear as bosses.
I'm pretty sure there will be an Angel boss that will be considered stronger than the Seraphim. And I think they said "so far" 10 bosses, though that could be the final number (every faction has 2 bosses).
That said, if Academy is in, there's a chance that the Titan will be promoted to a boss. Would be interesting if we got the Dungeon, then a Faceless unit would be obvious, replacing Black Dragon.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 06, 2010 11:08 AM |
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Quote:
He didn't say all the bosses would be ex-tier 7s, but that the tier 7s from H5 would appear as bosses.
I'm pretty sure there will be an Angel boss that will be considered stronger than the Seraphim. And I think they said "so far" 10 bosses, though that could be the final number (every faction has 2 bosses).
That said, if Academy is in, there's a chance that the Titan will be promoted to a boss. Would be interesting if we got the Dungeon, then a Faceless unit would be obvious, replacing Black Dragon.
True, jumping the gun a bit, but I strongly doubt that all 8 (and variations on them) will be bosses, most likely a few will be, but we've already seen one that certainly wasn't.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 06, 2010 11:11 AM |
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The Seraph is described as "smaller" and "more human-like" compared to the Angel, so no matter the great similarity in their appearances, the Seraph seem to be either inferior Angel, or some extremely faithful human/creature transformed into... this because of his/her devotion (yes, a dream come true for a male zealot with sexual orientation issues).
The Pit Fiend/Lord is below the Heroes V Devil in the power structure, this is clear.
I didn't say that all of the ex-tier-7s will become bosses - we still have no reasons to believe that any of them apart from the dragons will ascend to bosshood. This is likely for some of them though.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted November 06, 2010 11:14 AM |
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I guess if there are no elves or dwarves in the game, there won't be bosses related to them appearing. And I doubt the Devil would appear, he'd need a revamp and if they couldn't do that for an actual unit then most likely a brand new demon it will be.
But angels, bone dragons and titans or cyclopes could easily make an appearance and that's still less than half of the 10 bosses.
There's also the Phoenix, maybe the regular version will appear too and will be a boss. They said the bosses will be larger than regular creatures, right? In that case Dragons are the easiest choices for them, but (hopefully) they will do more than that.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted November 06, 2010 11:35 AM |
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Quote:
The Seraph is described as "smaller" and "more human-like" compared to the Angel, so no matter the great similarity in their appearances, the Seraph seem to be either inferior Angel, or some extremely faithful human/creature transformed into... this because of his/her devotion (yes, a dream come true for a male zealot with sexual orientation issues).
Except that the Seraph and Celestial seem to be effectively identical to the old units barring their name.
This leads me to believe they retcon the name Angel to refer a mightier creature then the Haven Tier 7 unit of the previous game.
Possibly the new meaning of "angel" referring to that glowing being from the promotional art piece.
Because the current Seraph and Celestial don't look "smaller and more human-like" then the previous Angel and Arch Angel and Seraph.
Also, transcending gender angelic transformations! WOOHOO!
Makes me look at their lot in a whole new, slightly disturbed way.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted November 06, 2010 11:44 AM |
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That's the same thing as your Pikeman argument, it's an attempt for both familiar and new. The "regular" Angel might have a different color, head-ornament, different sword etc. That's the bad thing about having angel as a race, it's hard to make proper variations.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 06, 2010 11:52 AM |
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Quote:
Except that the Seraph and Celestial seem to be effectively identical to the old units barring their name.
This leads me to believe they retcon the name Angel to refer a mightier creature then the Haven Tier 7 unit of the previous game.
Possibly the new meaning of "angel" referring to that glowing being from the promotional art piece.
Their appearance does not matter in this case, it is their description that counts. The HoMM V Angel and Archangel are called Angel and Archangel, so I think it's fairly safe to assume that they are Angel and Archangel. The Seraph is... well, something not quite like Angel or lesser Angel, as it seems.
By the way, in TotE the Seraph is an upgraded Angel, which does not become any smaller or more human-like - on the contrary. Unless TotE is not considered canon, the Seraph simply could not be what it looks to be in MMH:VI - a more earthly version of an Angel. But one should not pay so much attention to flagrant contradictions. 
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This thread is pages long: 
