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1910
Known Hero
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posted April 29, 2011 07:19 PM |
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It goes both ways. What other people do is because of how you act. Stop thinking you're always innocent. You're not. Far from it. Do you think people just insult you or bash things because of nothing? Because you're perfectly innocent? Come on. I don't care about Qp's. If I'm given one then it doesn't matter to me.
I myself have read the Bible and nowhere does it say that it's okay to kill somebody coming into your home to steal something. One of the Ten Commandments is Thou Shalt Not Kill. What ever happened to that or do you just disregard that for some reason? There's protecting your family and there's killing somebody. I wouldn't kill somebody who was trying to steal things. My sanity and my wellbeing is far more important than taking the life of another. I can just call the police or something afterwards. Sure, it may not always work but you're not exactly sane if you think it's just okay to kill somebody who is merely STEALING something. There's a difference between them raping or killing one of your family members and stealing and you're willing to kill no matter what they are doing.
My judgment is based upon Christians I know (I went to religious schools for both Primary and High School) and what you write and act. The way you act is not what somebody who takes great pride in his religious beliefs would act. In fact, I know somebody who is equally as bad as you in the religious aspect (if not worse than you) but even he would agree with most people on this board and say that there's a line and you don't cross it. He wouldn't kill somebody breaking into his home, just like any other religious person wouldn't. But you're perfectly willing to kill them and act as if nothing has happened. There's something seriously wrong there.
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Lumske_Beaver
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 29, 2011 09:16 PM |
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Quote:
@Lumske_Beaver
Quote:
@Elodin - Why do you even bother taking part in a discussion? You have a predetermined opinion about everything you discuss and are not willing to change your mind no matter how reasonable, well structured and formulated and valid arguments of others are?
What you really mean is I don't agree with the predetermined opinion of atheists so I am wrong. I've never seen an atheist admit what he said was wrong about the Bible even presented with overwhelming evidence.
Most posts on religion by many atheists are full of insults. slander, and lies. As is your post.Quote:
Please present me with this overwhelming evidence. The above shows exegetically how you simply do not argue, but only states postulates. Furthermore it it depicts your perennial way of ignoring arguments and evidence supporting a claim and taking the claim out of context to oppose it and call it a lie.
It seems to me that you do not understand what a lie is. When lying you deliberately state something that you know is not true. I backed up every claim in my posts with examples and evidence and asked you a range of questions. Not suprinsingly did you choose to ignore or refrain from reading these and answered my initial claim with another postulate. You probably don't even know the content of my post, and yet you speak about it. Doing so is not lying, just plain stupidity
Please point to the insults, slander and lies of my post. Well, I believe questioning your statements and reasoning, which my post solely was about, in itself is enough evidence for you to define it as slander and lies.
What I really mean is exactly what I wrote and you refrained from answering by yet again doing an irrational generalisation about atheists. Could you please answer instead. Also, what made you derive that I am an atheist (hopefully this is going to be answered so that we can hear some more greatly analytical statements about atheists, obviously in general).
I do not write to insult you, I just benevolently request you to enact those beliefs that you so firmly undertake and respect persons with other views (those you compassionately love) instead of insulting them with insolent pustulates that they are just lying without even considering what they say. Otherwise I aks you to refrain from taking part in the discussion as your assumed magmanimousness or omnibenevolence mainly insults and irritates people as from what I see. I surely invite you to post your opinion about Christianity, but please do no adress or argue with others if you cannot argue reasonably.
Also, feel free to humbly ask if there is something that you do not understand before starting arguing about it (ex. the speech of Pope John Paul II, and when Doomforge and most others have said that repeating yourself and stating your beliefs is not proof) as everybody else, if not unreasonable, would have done.
Edit: Someone needs to teach me how to use the quotation function as repeatedly fail using it properly
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 29, 2011 10:03 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 00:26, 30 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
lease point to the insults, slander and lies of my post.
OK, [Edit: You said the below:]
1) You have a predetermined opinion about everything you discuss
2) and are not willing to change your mind
3) no matter how
A) reasonable
B) well structured
C) and formulated
D) and valid arguments of others are
4) A great example is JJ's reference to Paul John II's speech where JJ and others virtually word by word explained to you what he actually said and implied, but you completely refused and kept on stating the biblical quotations that the pope refered to as symbolic languages and imagery.
5)Is it an act of love towards everybody to arrogantly
6) ignore what they say
7) and whole-heartedly believe that you are better,
A) cleverer
B) and more right than everybody else to a such extent that
C) if they do not agree with you, you classify them as irrational atheist?
8) Is it an act of love to (attempt to) ridilule (in a self-defeating and childish manner) through use of silly and unnecessary posters?
Quote:
Is it an act of love to kill an illegal intruder before understanding what his intentions are.
He would not be breaking in to have a cup of tea. He would not be holding a gun if he wished me and mine well.
Quote:
You believe to love everybody, but you would kill a person that may pose a threat to you or you family?
Yes, I love and protect my family. Some people might would enjoy standing by and watching your child being raped but I would not.
9)
Quote:
This is an evident example of you using a haphazard quote in the bible to defend a belief of yours.
Nah, it is an example of me showing why I believe what I believe. The Bible clearly says it is not wrong to kill a person who broke into your house. You don't like it? Tough cookies. The Bible is my source of doctrine, not you.
Quote:
Exo 22:2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.
10) You apply the quote to your own comprehension of self-defense (a comprehension that you would not alterate whatever arguments you are presented)and your own regulations for what situations you can apply the idea of self-defense to and what methods to apply.
Quote:
Could you not thread the intruder with your gunif you think he has evil intentions rather than just shooting him down in the first place?
Nah, I use a shotgun for home defense. I is great for close quarters combat, is guaranteed to knock the target down and the intruder is unlikely to be able to get up to kill me. Plus it is quite easy to hit the target with. Point and shoot. Trying to be a trick shooter during a home invasion is a terrible idea that would probably get you and your family killed.
Quote:
In fact, you have no justification from the Bible for self-defense except from the idea of it, but not for how and when to apply it (based on your presented quotations). Using them for justification therefore seems to be a pragmatic use of the Bible to validate your actions and opinions.
Dude, I quoted lots of verses showing why my position is correct. God says killing an intruder is ok. So God said I can use self defense against an intruder and moreover use lethal force.
11) Quote:
Is it an act of love to ascribe some the worst cruelties in the history of man led individuals who seemingly were atheist to atheism in genereal and thus everybody not believing in a god?
Dude, I've not said all atheists are guilty of those things. In fact I've said a number of times that atheists can be moral people.
12) It rather looks like an egoncentric, fanatic and spiteful generalisation against various persons of all sorts with a different believe than you.
Quote:
Also I am interested in how the American "withc hunt" against communism esp. in the 1950s to 1970s can be seen as kind and benevolent. In a country based on the values of democracy with freedom of speech and belief as its core values how can allegiance to a political ideal i.e. communism be persecuted and punished for nothing but support of an ideology.
Furthermore in the Dominica Repupblic in 1963 a popular uprising of the Constitutionalist, that had been unjutsly toppled in 1963 by a military coup with the support of the most powerful families of the Dominican Republic, the church, military and the CIA, occured and despite grave violence of the miliary government succeeded in reclaiming the 1963 constitution. Subsequently the military government informed the US that a ‘Communist takeover’ is taking place, and requested martial aid. The US responded by sending more than 50,000 marines and a coalition UN army with other allied countries (Brazil, Nicaragua, Mexico, etc.
This wore down the Dominican forces and afterwards many Dominacan and in the peace negotiations in return for American reparations many Dominican companies were overtaken by American investors.
The President of the US Lyndon B. Johnson stated in 1965 that "This hemisphere cannot afford the loss of another nation to Communism. We have learned enough from the experience with Cuba, and this time we are prepared to do what is necessary to defeat “Red threat”; This is a chain reaction under our very nose, and we must act quickly and decisively”
What threat is he in this case refering to? He suported a military dictatorship rather freely elected, social-democratic (not even communist and democratically elected!) government that had implemented a range of llberal initiatives for example seperation of church and government and because of the fear of an ideology. Between 6,000 and 10,000 Dominican died of wich most were civilians. As many deaths were caused by internal fightings, the US does not account for the majority of the deaths, but they nonetheless 'kindly and benevolently' waged a war against people on the basis that they had another ideology (note that this is a democracy with many liberal values and not even communism) than themselves. In fact, you could argue that the 1963 goverment of the Dominican Republic were more democratic than the US government with reference to the irrational legal persecution of communists in the US and the invasion off the Dominican Republic.
This was an act upon unilateral self-interest and has nothing to do with multilateral benevolence.
I counted at least 23 lies and insults in the part of your post that is bashing me. I think that is a record even for the OSM. Congrats on your +QP for the post. That is certainly a fine example of posts that will make the OSM a better place.
Your anti-America "questions" are off topic in this thread so I'll not respond to those.
I'll respond more to your second post later this evening or tonight.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted April 30, 2011 12:21 AM |
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Quote:
1) You have a predetermined opinion about everything you discuss
2) and are not willing to change your mind
3) no matter how
A) reasonable
B) well structured
C) and formulated
D) and valid arguments of others are
Says Dr Pot to Dr Kettle.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 30, 2011 12:51 AM |
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but why would you follow all that one book says (or more exactly here, what you understood from it?) for most of us, we may get influenced by books. about some bits, we will say "yes, it's a good idea" but we aren't going to worship the book.
a book is just an instrument to spread information. the moment someone think of a book as an authority, it can become dangerous.
do you really believe that the one or few people who wrote a book were able to bring an universal and intemporal answer to every possible problem?
even buddha himself said you should question things and not accept them blindly, even (especially) if he said them himself.
but about Jesus, I don't know. did he say, follow blindly all I say and never ever question it, and apply doublethink whenever you think it's weird?
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 30, 2011 01:51 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 01:55, 30 Apr 2011.
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Ok, here are my comments on your second post as requested:
Quote:
The above shows exegetically how you simply do not argue, but only states postulates.
I present more links and quotes than any other poster in the OSM. I take the time to do research because I am interested in truth.
I am able to back up my statements rather than just posting a tirade of insults against those who hold differing viewpoints. I am quite willing to change any of my beliefs IF you can PROVE me wrong. Try to persuade me that your opinions are correct and mine are wrong. Merely making a post composed primarily of insults and outright lies about me is not the way to do that.
Quote:
It seems to me that you do not understand what a lie is. When lying you deliberately state something that you know is not true. I backed up every claim in my posts with examples and evidence and asked you a range of questions.
No you did not back up your claims. You used all sorts of slanderous adjectives to describe me and made statements about me that you could not know are true unless you are a mind reader. And those statements are in fact untrue.
Quote:
Not suprinsingly did you choose to ignore or refrain from reading these and answered my initial claim with another postulate. You probably don't even know the content of my post, and yet you speak about it. Doing so is not lying, just plain stupidity
I did not initially say much about your post because the first part of your post was merely bashing me and the second part was also off topic, just "questions" bashing America, whereas this thread has nothing to do with America. See my previous post about your first post, however, as I have responded to it as you requested. I counted at least 23 lies and personal insults in your "+QP" thread. That was why I did not say more about it initially. There is simply nothing of worth there.
Quote:
What I really mean is exactly what I wrote and you refrained from answering by yet again doing an irrational generalisation about atheists.
No, I did not. I said, "Most posts on religion by many atheists are full of insults. slander, and lies. As is your post." The sentence does not apply to all or most atheists. I said "many." Many means neither most nor all. Anti-theism is a growing "racist" movement in the atheist community and they all want to sound like Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens.
Quote:
Not suprinsingly did you choose to ignore or refrain from reading these and answered my initial claim with another postulate. You probably don't even know the content of my post, and yet you speak about it. Doing so is not lying, just plain stupidity
Another lie. I read your entire post and of course you throw in another insult with "stupidity."
Quote:
Could you please answer instead. Also, what made you derive that I am an atheist (hopefully this is going to be answered so that we can hear some more greatly analytical statements about atheists, obviously in general).
I made no claim that you are an atheist. I said you were posting in the same style as the anti-theists I mentioned.
Quote:
I do not write to insult you, I just benevolently request you to enact those beliefs that you so firmly undertake and respect persons with other views (those you compassionately love) instead of insulting them with insolent pustulates that they are just lying without even considering what they say.
More lies and insults. Oh, and your previous post could hardly be called benevolent when it contains so many lies and personal insults. You certainly do not seem to show the respect that you claim I am not showing. And it is a lie to say I don't consider what others say.
You seem to make a lot of statements claiming to know the thoughts of others. I did not bother to count the lies and personal insults in your second post but I responded to some of them.
You have not made posts reprimanding those in this thread who have been launching insults at me (and I have deliberately been responding to them with humor rather than the way they posted about me) so I think that pretty much indicates you have an agenda, eh?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 30, 2011 08:56 AM |
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Fundamentalist catholic kills all his family and escape police. Not far from my town.
READ
I guess he heard a voice?
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Era II mods and utilities
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted April 30, 2011 09:37 AM |
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I believe that is what you call a Religious Fanatic 
They usually Dont understand the true meaning of the words in the Bible.
We have a god, we dont need a Human condemning people to death because of Sins that the whole world makes.
Yes i mean everyone.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted April 30, 2011 12:04 PM |
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Well.
At least he gave up on convincing me Jesus would shoot someone on his lawn.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 30, 2011 12:07 PM |
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Quote:
At least he gave up on convincing me Jesus would shoot someone on his lawn.
Then... I shall convince thee!
Please start off by giving me some hints on how to do this.
I want from you, now, all doubts and inconsistencies you find in your own system of belief! Preferable something that can lead to jesus shooting his own lawn, but if you've dirty sex stories, those are also acceptable!
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 30, 2011 03:00 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 15:03, 30 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
Fundamentalist catholic kills all his family and escape police. Not far from my town.
READ
I guess he heard a voice?
It is not what the man claimed to be that matters, it is what the man is. The man clearly is not a follower of Jesus Christ because he is not following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus said "Thou shalt not murder." Jesus said his sheep follow him. So while the man could not have been a Christian he could have been an atheist.
The teachings of Jesus Christ certainly could not have played any part in the killing.
Quote:
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Oh, did you know that the latest US mass murderer is an atheist? He shot 19 people, including a congresswoman. Note that I AM NOT saying all atheists are mass murderers.
Clicky
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Revelation
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted April 30, 2011 03:11 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 15:12, 30 Apr 2011.
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That murderer was obviously not an atheist.
I mean, look at this:
That obviously proves I'm right cuz like, this book says so. And if you say it does not you are a liar.
Oh sorry I thought we were just randomly provoking each other.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 30, 2011 03:24 PM |
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OMG.! But doctor Adrius, most almighty of all the pokemons, if it was not an atheist and it was not a theist, who was it then?
Could it... could it be a non-believer!!?
Yes doctor adrius, most almighty of all pokemons, I look at thee!
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SkrentyzMienty
Famous Hero
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posted April 30, 2011 03:34 PM |
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Quote:
Oh, did you know that the latest US mass murderer is an atheist? He shot 19 people, including a congresswoman. Note that I AM NOT saying all atheists are mass murderers.
This is quite funny, what are you trying to say? It is absolutely irrelevant and not an argument. The fact that he massacred 19 people is not due to his atheism, but due to him being a psycho...go on Elodin, did he have blonde hair? Do you think that proves blondes are more prone to murders? Pfft 
And if you want a counterargument that destroys yours, ALL SUICIDE BOMBERS ARE THEISTS, NOT ATHEISTS. How's this?
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 30, 2011 03:39 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Oh, did you know that the latest US mass murderer is an atheist? He shot 19 people, including a congresswoman. Note that I AM NOT saying all atheists are mass murderers.
This is quite funny, what are you trying to say? It is absolutely irrelevant and not an argument. The fact that he massacred 19 people is not due to his atheism, but due to him being a psycho...go on Elodin, did he have blonde hair? Do you think that proves blondes are more prone to murders? Pfft
The fact that you and several others objected to a link about an atheist mass murderer and not to Salamandre linking to a person who claimed to be a Catholic who murdered speaks volumes.
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Revelation
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted April 30, 2011 03:40 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 15:46, 30 Apr 2011.
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Funny how you condemn Elodin's link and not Salamandre's btw.
EDIT:
@Elodin: I considered Salamandre's link pure provocation as well. I did not take a stance with my little picture, I was merely trying to point out how everybody just seemed to provoke each other.
EDIT2:
Quote:
The fact that he massacred 19 people is not due to his atheism, but due to him being a psycho...go on Elodin, did he have blonde hair?Quote:
ALL SUICIDE BOMBERS ARE THEISTS, NOT ATHEISTS.
This is pure hilarity.
First you say that the religion is irrelevant when discussing psychos and then you go on with claiming suicide bombers are all theists.
Condemning a certain way of arguing and then using it yourself for your own cause... hehe.
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SkrentyzMienty
Famous Hero
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posted April 30, 2011 03:47 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
ALL SUICIDE BOMBERS ARE THEISTS, NOT ATHEISTS.
Source please.
Funny how you condemn Elodin's link and not Salamandre's btw.
Are you joking? o_O You think that Al-Qaeda, at the heart of the Muslim world of terrorists, in the "holy Saudi Arabia", is an ATHEIST Mafia? Wow... I don't see the need to give you sources.
Well Elodin's and Salamandre's links are equally unreliable, I just forgot to. Besides, fanaticism in religion DOES make brainless puppet psychos out of people, making the Salamandre link possible after all.
EDIT:
Quote:
This is pure hilarity.
First you say that the religion is irrelevant when discussing psychos and then you go on with claiming suicide bombers are all theists.
Condemning a certain way of arguing and then using it yourself for your own cause... hehe.
Comprehend what I'm saying first, then attempt at making me sound like a hypocrite.
I said Atheism is irrelevant and Atheism is NOT a religion, whereas Islam is.
And it is a FACT that suicide bombers are Islamic fanatics, convinced Allah will reward them with virgins and riches for smashing into a skyscraper.
EDIT 2:
Quote:
The fact that you and several others objected to a link about an atheist mass murderer and not to Salamandre linking to a person who claimed to be a Catholic who murdered speaks volumes.
I DID object to it, what now?
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted April 30, 2011 03:49 PM |
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Quote:
And if you want a counterargument that destroys yours, ALL SUICIDE BOMBERS ARE THEISTS, NOT ATHEISTS. How's this?
atheistic Irish nationalists
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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SkrentyzMienty
Famous Hero
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posted April 30, 2011 03:59 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
And if you want a counterargument that destroys yours, ALL SUICIDE BOMBERS ARE THEISTS, NOT ATHEISTS. How's this?
atheistic Irish nationalists
What?
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted April 30, 2011 03:59 PM |
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Dear Skrenty, you see the world is more complicated then that.
You see many suicide bomber are misguided, misguided by people with power, terrorists leader or whatever. And whether they are religions or not doesn't matter. They are using the Koran or the Bible to fool people into committing the terror acts.
(but please note that I don't have any sources, and that this doesn't not apply to all cases.)
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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