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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted April 30, 2011 04:02 PM |
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Quote:
And it is a FACT that suicide bombers are Islamic fanatics, convinced Allah will reward them with virgins and riches for smashing into a skyscraper.
How is the religion of fanatics suddenly relevant when speaking of these kind of psychos, but when talking about other killers atheism is totally irrelevant?
I don't get you. You saying that only religion produces fanatics or what?
One can become fanatic about anything, and I believe the world has its share of fanatic atheists.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted April 30, 2011 04:02 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 16:03, 30 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
What?
You say all suicide bombers are theists, calling that a powerful counterargument. That's not an argument. It's not even true. I could decide to blow myself up tomorrow for whatever cause and your assertion would collapse.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 30, 2011 04:05 PM |
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Dear Skrenty, you see the world is more complicated then that.
"than", not "then"!
I think what jaba's trying to say with his strange language, is that you, griffin-guy, do the exact same mistake elodin does in the first place. Drawing correlation between murder and religious belief (or lack of such belief). Or at least that you accept these premises, which really aren't relevant at all.
Edit: But dear Cepheus, clearly you're not an element in the set that contains all sets and elements of sets! For you are Cepheus, destroyer of virgins across the planet of sanctuary!
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted April 30, 2011 04:06 PM |
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Elodin and Skrentzydude are so damn similar and they don't even realize it 
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 30, 2011 04:09 PM |
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I believe the world has its share of fanatic atheists.
Yes adrius, we're looking at you again!
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted April 30, 2011 04:09 PM |
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 30, 2011 04:15 PM |
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Quote:
I think what jaba's trying to say with his strange language, is that you, griffin-guy, do the exact same mistake elodin does in the first place. Drawing correlation between murder and religious belief (or lack of such belief). Or at least that you accept these premises, which really aren't relevant at all.
I did not correlate the murders with atheism. Shall I make up random untrue statements about you as well?
Salamandre's post had been up for a good while before I made my post that had the atheist mass murder link. As I suspected as soon as I posted the link the "mean old Elodin" posts began.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted April 30, 2011 04:18 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 16:18, 30 Apr 2011.
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Where are these "Mean Old Elodin" posts you speak of? I can't see any apart from Skrentzy.
My atheist bible was a joke man, though it did try to point out something else it wasn't directed at you exclusively.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 30, 2011 04:20 PM |
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Well. It may of course just be a strange, completely random, idea I have gotten. Are you absolute certain you do not, relative often, make examples of atheists who are also murderers?
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SkrentyzMienty
Famous Hero
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posted April 30, 2011 04:24 PM |
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I did not correlate the murders with atheism.
Yeah sure. Your countless posts on HC about Stalin and some Chinese Mao Lao are uploaded without your knowledge.
Quote:
You say all suicide bombers are theists, calling that a powerful counterargument. That's not an argument. It's not even true. I could decide to blow myself up tomorrow for whatever cause and your assertion would collapse.
It is a powerful counterargument. And I was talking about Al-Qaeda suicide bombers, which first, account for some 90% of all if not more, and secondly, they are all religious fanatics. If you deny this I'll facepalm so hard my head will fly off and bomb the nearest city, that's gonna be your atheist bomber for you.
Quote:
Quote:
How is the religion of fanatics suddenly relevant when speaking of these kind of psychos, but when talking about other killers atheism is totally irrelevant?
I would like to inquire an answer regarding the above question, Skrentzydude.
Because atheism AND theism are irrelevant. It IS relevant, however, in the case of suicide bombers, which ARE religious fanatics, and that's what I talked about. I even said Salamandre's link was irrelevant. WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?
Quote:
I think what jaba's trying to say with his strange language, is that you, griffin-guy, do the exact same mistake elodin does in the first place. Drawing correlation between murder and religious belief (or lack of such belief). Or at least that you accept these premises, which really aren't relevant at all.
Could that be because there IS an obvious correlation?
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted April 30, 2011 04:26 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 16:37, 30 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
How is the religion of fanatics suddenly relevant when speaking of these kind of psychos, but when talking about other killers atheism is totally irrelevant?
I would like to inquire an answer regarding the above question, Skrentzydude.
EDIT: Uh... alright then.
I'm getting the hell out of this thread. This is too weird for my brain to handle at the moment.
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Ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 30, 2011 05:00 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I think what jaba's trying to say with his strange language, is that you, griffin-guy, do the exact same mistake elodin does in the first place. Drawing correlation between murder and religious belief (or lack of such belief). Or at least that you accept these premises, which really aren't relevant at all.
Could that be because there IS an obvious correlation?
You really think so? Isn't it a bit strange how it's isolated to certain areas. Areas where terrorist groups also happen to be operating? That there are suicide bombers across religions, happens to, once again, correspond with areas where terrorists are hiding?
Anyway, if you're interested, I've found my thoughts on the subject.
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=32286&pagenumber=1
Sure you can always find some limited correlation, if you insist. I can't see how that's more important than correlation of rise of temperature with drop in amount of pirates, etc. The main problem, as I see it, is the lack of actually controlling the variables, before drawing conclusions, i.e. drawing conclusions on way way to soft ground.
I.e. it's irrelevant that terrorists bombers of terrorist organizations from muslim areas happens in most, if not all, cases to be muslims. What's relevant is the living standards of these places, or whatever it may be that allows for these people to find terrorism a valid alternative to the life they're currently living.
One way to easy show, how irrelevant the muslim part is, is to just look at the amount of muslims. There are what? 0,000001% of all muslims that are terrorists. Clearly it has nothing to do with them being muslims and more likely, everything to do with them living in an environment where it's not only tough to survive, but also next door to terrorist organizations in the first place.
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Lumske_Beaver
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 30, 2011 05:54 PM |
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@Elodin
Before you ever use the concept of lying against anybody please consult a dictionary of any sort because you simply do not grasp the meaning of the word. I am not spreading deliberate untruths, I am arguing my opinion with valid examples and justification.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lie
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lie
I agree that my post included insults as well as yours (to insinuate that people are lying and spreading slander and not even supporting these claims is certainly insulting), but contrary to your insults I back up mine. Not surprisingly did you choose, yet again, to ignore the backing up and supporting arguments for my claims. Are my questions insulting because you do not ave a reply? I am asking on basis of the contradictions I see you do in your argumentation; if you find it insulting please engage with the questions and show me wrong.
I find it interesting that it is not off topic when you assert that the US is a kind and benevolent superpower that helps countries in need rather than focus on its own interests it is not off topic, but when others point to the fact and support with arguments and examples that this is not the case, suddenly it is off topic.
Your recent post about self-defense is yet again based on a predetermined assumption this time that the intruder has a gun when he breaks through the window. With reference to your own scenario (a few pages back when you viciously insulted Baklava) you stated nothing about the intruder holding a gun, you just shot and killed him as soon as he broke through the window. How can one possibly argue with you when you to prove somethin wrong just change what you initially said?
As a final point I beleive you have a thorough misunderstanding of when the moderators hand out a quality reward. Obviously my understanding of this not complete either, but I can assure you that nobody gets a quality reward because they insult another user. Naturally the moderators can not be fully objective, but surely they are not closed-minded and one-sided nor instictively opposed to because you are a theist, which you seem to belive with your statements about qps. It is simply bot of quality to any thread to insult one user in it. Contrary, I believe that you will be given a qp if your post are see to be enlightening, inspiring and well-written for example like Markkur's or creative, enjoyable and with a discerning underlying message like Corribus's alien scenario. Furthermore I belive that people who approach the discussion inquisitively and reasonably and backup postulates with lucid and solid arguments and examples.
My post was not witten in attempt to get one, but to show that your argumentation is mainly consisting of unsupported postulates, and with your last to posts you have not changed my view. I am not to judge if my post deserves a quality reward , and you may be right that it does not, but I demand you to explain why. Nonetheless by claiming that it is worth nothing (without engaging with any of the points I made in it) is to insinuate that the judgement of the moderator (in this case Angelito) is completely inept. This is a very serious and unreasonable charge. Is this not justification enough for you to realize how arrogant such an act is. Do you feel that your statements are infallible and do not need evidence. It is a flagrant insult both to me (and Anngelito) when you do not even adress the points I made.
I asked you why you take part in a discussion, and you did not answer. Now I realize why you did not answer, because you do not take part in a discussion (I define discussion as a disagreement between more persons where everybody logically argue for his case, "to consider or examine by argument" by http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discuss) but in a presentation of postulates.
This is how the arguments between you and other people in this thread evolves in most cases (the only variation is that the initial comment is not reasonable):
Person A reasonably argues a disagreement with you and support his statements with examples and evidence.
Elodin quotes his statements (postulates) and takes them out of context to oppose them with an unsupported postulate.
Person A points to the fact that your postulate is not backed up and that you ignored the supporting evidence (that you need to oppose to prove him wrong).
Based on this Elodin calls him a purveyor of lies, slander and insults without backing it up.
The persons starts getting frustrated and explains his point in more detail and that you again is not backing up your postulates and ignore the supportin evidence.
Elodin yet again ignores any evidence and arguments and quotes out of context followed by a statement saying "you have so far not proved me wrong."
Person A realizes that it is not possible to convince you of anything because you refuse to acknowledge his points and anybody elses. He questions the point of trying to discuss with you and concludes that it is not possible. He decides to cease as given the other part he sees that it will inevitably develop into a quarrel.
I allow myself to generalize as I saw the excact same procedure with you (Elodin) and respectively Baklava, Corribus and JJ. Not surprisingly they all cleverly ceased arguing with you and I now see that I do right in following those of greater experience than me.
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Lumske_Beaver
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 30, 2011 06:06 PM |
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Quote:
Geez, haven't you guys learned yet?
The great Jonathan Swift once wrote: "It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
What I say in a lengthy and garrulous post Corribus succinctly and lucidly express with a brilliant reference. I should have seen that earlier. That single aphorism explains what have been going on for almost the entire thread. Just brilliant!
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted April 30, 2011 06:08 PM |
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Quote:
Because atheism AND theism are irrelevant. It IS relevant, however, in the case of suicide bombers, which ARE religious fanatics,
...
What?
So if they were all athiest bombers, it would be relevant too?
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 30, 2011 06:36 PM |
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100% of bombers are dead. thus, we can conclude that all dead people...
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Lumske_Beaver
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 30, 2011 06:50 PM |
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@SkrentyzMienty
Those who enact suicide bombings may ascribe themselves to Islam, but that does not mean that they are actually practising the religion. Many of these terrorist are people with no educational background who are exploited by members of Taleban or Al Qaeda that indoctrinate them to belive that suicide bombing will make the martyrs.
However if you invested som time in getting to know about Islam you would know that to teach Islam you must be able to carry on the unbroken chian of transmission (Isnad). To do that you need to be highly educated and have studied the Quoran to achieve the status of Imam (http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2097&CATE=120 you should read the reply, obviously by a muslim scholar). Those people in Taleban and and Al-Quada (based on the words of the Imam in Cardfiff, Shaikh Mahdi M Abbasi, in a speech) who preach Islam to iliterate people often living in miserable conditions have no qualification to do so and preach false teachings. Thus suicide bombing simply has nothing to do with Islam and it is fully ignorant to claim so. He furthermore made it clear that those Imams that support Taleban and and Al-Qaeda deliberately break the Isnad and twist the teachings of Islam. The correlation you make has no validity.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 30, 2011 07:00 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 19:04, 30 Apr 2011.
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just be wise and do not follow imams or any other authority blindly.
Quote:
Jesus said his sheep follow him
does it answer my question? or did sheep meant something else in that time?
serious religious authority do not ask you to follow them. at all.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 30, 2011 07:01 PM |
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Except if said authority is Fauch, of course
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 30, 2011 07:03 PM |
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Quote:
@Elodin
Before you ever use the concept of lying against anybody please consult a dictionary of any sort because you simply do not grasp the meaning of the word. I am not spreading deliberate untruths, I am arguing my opinion with valid examples and justification.
You have lied about me in your current post and your two previous posts to me in this thread Calling your lies opinions doesn't cut it.
I'm not going to bother going through all the lies/slander again but here are some examples:
Quote:
1) You have a predetermined opinion about everything you discuss
2) and are not willing to change your mind
3) no matter how
A) reasonable
B) well structured
C) and formulated
D) and valid arguments of others are
It is a lie to say that I have a predetermined opinion about everything. You have certainly not heard my opinion about everything so your claim makes you either delusional (as in you think you can read minds and know everything I think on every issue) or a liar.
It is a lie that I am unwilling to change my mind. For example, I do not belong to the same denomination I started out in because I came to realize that another denomination's teachings are more in line with the Bible. I changed my mind about certain things when presented with valid arguments and after further study of the Bible.
You see, I hold the Bible in utmost respect so if you can prove to me that my understanding of a passage is wrong I will certainly change my mind on the matter.
I love the truth and peruse it with zeal and diligence.
Quote:
Pro 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
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5)Is it an act of love towards everybody to arrogantly
6) ignore what they say
7) and whole-heartedly believe that you are better,
A) cleverer
B) and more right than everybody else to a such extent that
C) if they do not agree with you, you classify them as irrational atheist?
I am not arrogant. You lied.
I don't ignore what people say. I read and consider their opinions. It someone proves my position to be incorrect I will change my viewpoint.
It is a lie to say I think I think I am better than anyone else. I am better than no one. All people are equal. There are some who post on this site who say all people are not equal. I have argued the opposite point.
No, I do not think I am more clever than everyone else.
I do think I am correct on what I believe or I would not believe what I believe, I would believe something else. That is pretty logical huh?
No, it is not true that I classify people who do not agree with me as irrational atheists. You lied.
Now, I am done wasting my time responding to your posts. I am not going to go through and list all your other lies. I am also not going to respond to your future posts for a while.
When you begin to address my ideas instead of launching a tirade of insults and lies perhaps I'll begin to respond to your posts again.
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This thread is pages long: 
