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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted December 30, 2012 12:27 PM |
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Quote:
It's true, that the H5 Dungeon is a Warhammer Dark Elven town, no discussion about that. Two provocatively clad female units with a bdsm touch plus the Asassin and of course the Lizard Riders plus enslaved Minotaurs ...
It is also true, that nothing in the H6 Dungeon will be reminiscent of Warhammer. No Lizards, Minotaurs there, but allies, no hint of bdsm, a ranged female unit.
Also, it's a DARK Magic faction: poisoning, mind effects, harrassment and disruption of the enemy (the empowering racial theory isn't that bad, but only when Dungeon envisioning as a DESTRUCTIVE (spellpower-heavy) faction of old).
The only thing I find regretable about this is: no more lizards. I liked the lizard-riders, I thought they were cool.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 30, 2012 12:50 PM |
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Well, they were obviously some sort of cavalry, but if you compare them as a level 4 unit with Haven level 6, something isn't really working that well.
Anyway, having a regular Ashan Dungeon version sans the other Warhammer stuff, coming with Lizards as hero mounts and a Lizard cavalry unit would have worked in H 5 - a single bow before Warhammer.
Now, however, it would seem that nothing short of a total drawback could erase the overpowering feeling of having introduced some kind of clone from another universe.
I have to say that I had nothing against the bdsm touch and the nosering minotaurss - if it had been an ORIGINAL concept I'd probably even liked it as something new and fresh.
But as a copy it feels somewhat, well, unnecessary.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted December 30, 2012 01:04 PM |
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Quote:
Well, they were obviously some sort of cavalry, but if you compare them as a level 4 unit with Haven level 6, something isn't really working that well.
Which is exactly why I prefer the 3-tiersystem over the 7-tiersystem.
Quote:
Anyway, having a regular Ashan Dungeon version sans the other Warhammer stuff, coming with Lizards as hero mounts and a Lizard cavalry unit would have worked in H 5 - a single bow before Warhammer.
Now, however, it would seem that nothing short of a total drawback could erase the overpowering feeling of having introduced some kind of clone from another universe.
I have to say that I had nothing against the bdsm touch and the nosering minotaurss - if it had been an ORIGINAL concept I'd probably even liked it as something new and fresh.
But as a copy it feels somewhat, well, unnecessary.
No objections there. Though the Minotaurs still have nose-rings. Which again, is nothing new, Minotaurs have had noserings since forever. I think you mean nipple-rings. Come to thing of it, we don't know if Heroes 5 Minotaurs had nose-rings, because of the muzzles they were wearing.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted December 30, 2012 02:39 PM |
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Quote:
Well, they were obviously some sort of cavalry, but if you compare them as a level 4 unit with Haven level 6, something isn't really working that well.
Anyway, having a regular Ashan Dungeon version sans the other Warhammer stuff, coming with Lizards as hero mounts and a Lizard cavalry unit would have worked in H 5 - a single bow before Warhammer.
Now, however, it would seem that nothing short of a total drawback could erase the overpowering feeling of having introduced some kind of clone from another universe.
I have to say that I had nothing against the bdsm touch and the nosering minotaurss - if it had been an ORIGINAL concept I'd probably even liked it as something new and fresh.
But as a copy it feels somewhat, well, unnecessary.
I disagree completely. Having original units and factions is not what makes the game great. Take a look at Heroes 3, almost nothing in the entire game was original. What makes it good is disregarding what other people have done, both copying AND avoiding, and just doing what is good. If lizards are good, let them stay. Don't completely remove them just because someone else did them, and hint -- warhammer is only another in a long line of people copying each other's ideas, not the first.
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 30, 2012 03:21 PM |
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I liked Destructive Dungeon and the Lizards. They should atleast be the Hero mount. Horses are boring!
I think the coolest racial for Dungeon would have been one about mind control.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 30, 2012 03:56 PM |
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Right, I meant the NIPPLE rings, of course. 
A mind-control racial? Spells death for MP and Duels. Still, those will be a problem with the Dungeon anyway - no fun being on the receiving end of those.
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MeanMan
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 30, 2012 03:58 PM |
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Mind control seems more like a Inferno thing.
I guess it will be like this:
Tier 1: 1 Core unit gets invisibility for 1 turn but can be damaged by aoe attacks
Tier 2: 1 Core or Elite unit gets invisibility for 1 turn but can be damaged by aoe attacks
Tier 3: 1 core, elite or champion unit gets invisibility for 1 turn but can be damaged by aoe attacks
Tier 4: All friendly units in a 3x3 area get invisibility for 1 turn but can be damaged by aoe attacks
It would be somewhat like the bubble thingy from Haven, just weaker, since the unit still can be targeted by aoe attacks.
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KingImp
Famous Hero
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posted December 30, 2012 04:17 PM |
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I know this is most likely a no brainer, but with some of the questionable decisions they've made in the past I won't assume anything until I hear it announced.
I really hope that in this new Dragon Utopia that we actually get to fight dragons. Personally, I hope it's these dragon gods, but I would also be fine with it just being regular "lesser" dragons (i.e. Black, Gold, Red, Green, etc.)
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Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
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posted December 30, 2012 07:03 PM |
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@MeanMan
I like that theory, it would not surprise me if it actually is right.
@Naze
Quote:
3. What I believe the racial ability could be is the Empowering of spells. When the racial gauge is full, the next 1/2/3/4 spells will be cast in the empowered mode. This, however, might be quite unuseful for the might heroes having only passive abilities...
If as many as 4 turns is locked into empowered spells, then there are a lot of turns where pushing the ability-button is useless.
Maybe racial ability could empower tier 1/2/3 spells instead, and level 4 addds luck or double spellpower or something. But that would be very useless for might heroes.
And  is now inferno.
Quote:
And what will fill up the racial gauge? Well, there are plenty of possibilities, but it would be pretty interesting to have it filled by the use of special abilities and spells. This would make the dark elves magic- and combo-centred... which, I believe, was their way of warfare in H5.
Yes, it fits the "find all secrets" thing they have. Listen to what happen and turn it into your advantage!
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted December 30, 2012 09:35 PM |
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Quote:
It's not, though.
It's true, that the H5 Dungeon is a Warhammer Dark Elven town, no discussion about that. Two provocatively clad female units with a bdsm touch plus the Asassin and of course the Lizard Riders plus enslaved Minotaurs ...
It is also true, that nothing in the H6 Dungeon will be reminiscent of Warhammer. No Lizards, Minotaurs there, but allies, no hint of bdsm, a ranged female unit.
Also, it's a DARK Magic faction: poisoning, mind effects, harrassment and disruption of the enemy (the empowering racial theory isn't that bad, but only when Dungeon envisioning as a DESTRUCTIVE (spellpower-heavy) faction of old).
By JJ hints like these I believe that Dungeon Racial ability might be related to poison and/or things like that.
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted December 31, 2012 12:08 AM |
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Well as most people, who know me here, can say I was a huge dungeon fan since the earlier days of homm (1995), now I must say I have to reconsider. Dark magic, poisoning has always been asociated with the necromancers while dungeon was always about high tier high price units with the most destructive spell caster heroes in the game. This is what I loved about dungeon.
Also in my humble opinion the blood fury is the coolest unit ever created\copied in the hommm series so going away from that I dislike greatly.
My opinion is much like Miru said above that you should remake stuff which is bad or doesn't work, not things that people love although they have been inspired from some other universe/game/book etc
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 31, 2012 12:17 AM |
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I was quite hesitant when I heard of that change, I suspected as much when I saw the warlocks become a part of inferno. But if anything dungeon does look like fun and it's not like they won't have destructive. I do wish they have fire magic though.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted December 31, 2012 12:25 AM |
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So I guess they lack the fire and light spell trees?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 31, 2012 12:37 AM |
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I don't know. To be fair though dungeon lacked the destructive specialization before H5. Back in the day they had access to pretty much everything, including resurrection. They were the best at blowing things up but that was not their only strength. As such I don't really mind if they get a more diverse spell set, I just hope they keep their fire spells..
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted December 31, 2012 12:41 AM |
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Well haven doesn't have dark so I think it's safe to assume that dungeon doesn't have light.
The second missing is surely between fire (dwarves which are their enemies) and earth (former ways left behind)
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted December 31, 2012 12:54 AM |
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Quote:
To be fair though dungeon lacked the destructive specialization before H5.
High Spell Power + Armaggedon + Dragons = ...
Or Lightning Bolt, or Meteor Shower, or Implosion, etc.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 31, 2012 12:56 AM |
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my guess: Dark, Earth (elves, they live within it), Fire (destruction), Air (destructon), Prime
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted December 31, 2012 08:03 AM |
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I wouldn't discount water just yet, since the water school as quite a few destructive and disruptive spells of its own. Both fit the dungeon bill.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Kenishi
Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
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posted December 31, 2012 08:19 AM |
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The magic schools for Dungeon will be Darkness in the new Heroes web portal it even states the are the masters of Dark Magic and will probably see some hero specialization that will have destructive on the blood path and some weakening specializations on the tears path.
Now for the racial specialization ... for me it comes in mind Agrael/Relag Master of Initiative specialization that increases initiative for one troops and slows down the enemy, and I thing it will be in line with a fast moving guerrilla like type of warfare that seams more suited for them.
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted December 31, 2012 09:43 AM |
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If nothing will change with skills (and I really hope it would), then Dungeon should have the same 3 magic schools as all other factions: Air, Earth and Prime (Orcs don't have Prime but they have 6 magic schools instead of 5). The fourth magic school for Dungeon should be Dark (this is clear from faction description). The question is, which one will 5th magic school?
I would guess it will be Fire because of destruction potential and maybe because Raelag will search help with Demons and Kha-Beleth.
Of course there is a chance that we see new magic school like Illusion or Summoning but I don't think so, as H6 is restricted by its lore and geting new magic school won't fit current system.
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