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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 10, 2013 11:07 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 23:07, 10 Dec 2013.
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She's got nothing on Zefiria  But yeah, if she appeared on H7 she could use some more armour. Legs are totally exposed.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted December 21, 2013 11:29 AM |
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The Undead Minotaur makes me wonder if we might get undead versions of some creatures, especially the more exciting ones. (Minotaurs, Griffins, etc). It wouldn't be much more than a reskin and some stat adjustments. They'd probably clog up the Necromancer's slots so they might not last the battle, but if they could I could see a strategy of mining enemies for their monsters.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 21, 2013 11:47 AM |
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted December 21, 2013 02:22 PM |
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Daystar said:
The Undead Minotaur makes me wonder if we might get undead versions of some creatures, especially the more exciting ones. (Minotaurs, Griffins, etc). It wouldn't be much more than a reskin and some stat adjustments. They'd probably clog up the Necromancer's slots so they might not last the battle, but if they could I could see a strategy of mining enemies for their monsters.
Sounds cool, but I don't see Ubisoft making that happen...and considering H6 experience, it would be another gateway to new bugs 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 21, 2013 04:12 PM |
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It shouldn't be too hard to make a brief model edit but I'm not sure this is a good use of resources. It wouldn't accomplish anything more than the raised units looking a little different and you would be unable to combine stacks to gain superior numbers. I'd much rather have a system similar to H5 where the tier system helps you determine what unit raises what. For instance:
Might Core giving skeletons
Magic Core giving ghosts
Might Elite giving vampires
Magic Elite giving liches
Magic champion giving ghost dragons.
Might Champion giving [???]
etc.
Necromancy does not have to raise every kind of undead, I'd be happy if it only raised key units like the aforementioned. Besides it would look weird if a random elite gave you lamasu that are supposed to be raised from manticores only.
And finally..
WELCOME DAYSTAR! 
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 21, 2013 08:44 PM |
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Elvin said:
Might Core giving skeletons
Magic Core giving ghosts
Might Elite giving vampires
Magic Elite giving liches
Magic champion giving ghost dragons.
Might Champion giving [???]
Add to that a weekly cap and it could be the best necro solution yet.
Apart the lore debates the whole post revolves around alternative upgrades and alternate units. (With a weird spin, sub-factions).
I do not see why this combination of having alternative upgrades for some and alternative creatures for others does not please more people. The whole sub-factions thing is basically just this.
Someone complained that vampires should have no alternative upgrade. Agreed! who said they should? Not all creatures should have one. Alternative upgrades should be the exception rather than the norm.
It would bring so much diversity into the game...
Heores 6 landed it home on so many key fronts that there is almost no need for a H7 (except a monetary one, but that is debatable because of the huge disappointment H6 was). Graphics and sounds are in place already. Change the lineups a little, rethink the skill and spell system, add racials, sim turns, RMG and were good again.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 21, 2013 11:46 PM |
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I was thinking of a necromancy modifier tied to the towns you control so that necro would keep up with other factions if more towns were involved. If for instance a necro town produced 50 skeletons and necromancy gave you 25 skeletons in a week, that would be a 50% increase in skeleton growth. But if you controlled 3 towns(150 skeletons) and the cap remained the same(25 skeletons), the increase would only be 16.6%. If however each necro town you controlled added 25 skeletons to the necromancy cap, the army increase would be 50% just like if you had one town. This could be achieved by a necromancy unique building.
I agree that H7 does not need much more than what you said to be a good game. More content, more meaningful decisions, a healthy dose of (controlled)randomness and a decent multiplayer would make me happy.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
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Taraka898
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 27, 2013 08:40 PM |
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Gnomes2169 said:
If I had to guess possible gameplay themes, then for all of the possible factions it would be:
Haven: TANK TANK TANK + Buff (Do I actually have to say more?)
Inferno: DPS + Numbers (High damage, speed and attack swarms that drop like flies)
Necro: ZOMG NUMBERS + some revives/ debuffs (Basically a fusion of the H5 necromacy that bolsters troop count after battles and the H6 magic focus)
Dungeon: Burst DPS + Stealth (More destructive magic than in H6, but with the same general creature themes)
Stronghold: Diverse abilities + DPS (I'm thinking that fortress, while being physically powerful once again, could easily focus more on the diversity of their creature's abilities, to match the general diversity of their possible creatures.)
Sylvan: Burst DPS + Buffs (Like dungeon, the forest elves would likely be very powerful in the first round or two of combat before the enemy has a chance to really cut down on their numbers, but heroes would likely be more focused on improving their creatures through light magic than blowing up their enemies through destructive.)
Sanctuary: Battle tempo + Buffs (With their ice and light theme, Sancuary seems like the faction that would choose when and where their creatures engaged enemies on the battlefield, making them amazing tempo setters wile also giving them access to powerful defensive buffs.)
Fortress: Tanking + Formations (From what we saw in H5, the dwarves are a turtling faction with some decent offensive might in the form of light and runic magic, but beyond that they had the unique ability to be buffed by other creatures of the faction standing beside them on the battlefield, making formation synergy a massive boon to the dwarven faction. Likely, we will be seeing a return to this system if we see Fortress ever again, though this I hope that there are bonuses for different arrangements on the battlefield or follow up attacks to add tactical depth to the dwarves...)
Void: Global debuffs + Horrors/ lingering damage (The Void would basically be the best school for breaking down enemies in every way possible, from its nightmare-spawned lineup to possible magic schools, this faction would likely specialize in lowering the effectiveness of any army to astronomical lows and would probably rely more on poisons/ suffering to bleed their enemies dry than bursting damage or overwhelming creatures.)
Of course, these are just idle speculations... but I would not be surprised if I was right on at least one or two accounts.
I really like the sound of the Void faction. Lore-wise, I think it would be awesome if the Voids were to somehow invade Sheogh and "out-demon" the Inferno faction, just to shake up the whole Demon Eclipse pattern. It could turn into a situation where the demons get a taste of their own medicine, so to speak. Heck, it could even make us play the Sovreign as a protagonist!
Ah idle speculation is so comforting....
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 05, 2014 02:45 PM |
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krs said:
Apart the lore debates the whole post revolves around alternative upgrades and alternate units. (With a weird spin, sub-factions).
I do not see why this combination of having alternative upgrades for some and alternative creatures for others does not please more people. The whole sub-factions thing is basically just this.
I don't know if the sub-factions idea was exactly that, but at the very least it was an idea that sought to bring more creatures and variety on the table. That's what we want in the end. But I honestly don't see sub-factions as a viable solution. There are a lot of things that come to mind that could render this sub-faction idea impossible to implement, like balancing and bugs.
I could picture a Heroes where you could have sub-factions + alternative creatures + alternative upgrades in one big game, but I don't see Ubi up to that sort of hard work. A game like that would be a monster, a nightmare of probably more than 30 Gb of data. Ambitious and fully rewarding though, but a project too big to see it happen.
So if I were to pick from those 3 options I'd go with alternative upgrades, or maybe have them as an expansion or at the very least as a mod. To be frank, I'd like both alternative upgrades and alternative creatures (I think I had a post about this some pages back), but that may be a bit of a stretch, if not outright impossible from the very beginning.
Quote:
Someone complained that vampires should have no alternative upgrade. Agreed! who said they should? Not all creatures should have one. Alternative upgrades should be the exception rather than the norm.
It would bring so much diversity into the game...
Or this too, yea... But wouldn't that be a bit unbalanced? And if you look at it as not being a norm, out of let's say a line-up of 7 creatures how many should there be with an upgrade? Maybe 3? Should that be for all factions or should each have their own number of upgradeable creatures?
All in all, I think Elvin put it best, "a game easy to play but difficult to master", I don't think anyone disagrees with this. I trust him being an "insider" will help with the future development of a great Heroes game.
Oh and by the way, those DoC cards seem a bit... meh, but I guess it's just the skeptic withing me talking now, maybe I should try the game first.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 05, 2014 03:17 PM |
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Doc is often hit or miss though the unit concepts are canonical and have been designed by Erwan and his team. They have not been created for doc alone, they are part of Ashan. For instance, vulture riders cannot appear in stronghold unless the lineup consisted of the Black Skull clan. Likewise there are certain rules for magic like earth magic being slower than light - as reflected in their spells. Regeneration works as a healing over time and Heal is instant. I believe that H6 did not flesh out those concepts very well and there is a lot of room for improvement there.
MMX also has a number of new spells but I have not installed the game to properly document them. If anyone knows of a MMX wiki I'll happily add them 
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SepSpring
Known Hero
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posted January 05, 2014 05:32 PM |
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Quote:
A game like that would be a monster, a nightmare of probably more than 30 Gb of data.
The worst bugbear in this case is 3D, I guess. All these up-to-date graphics are meaningless in such games. I mean the TBS genre. Turning back to 2,5D will possibly make future instalments easier to develop. And, to be honest, I doubt the games will lose their visual attractiveness for the series' real fans in this way. Of course, the majority of casual players won't accept such decision, and here comes the problem of publisher's profit being declined.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 05, 2014 05:54 PM |
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I really hate the Bedouin look of the Sahaar Orc. I would prefer them to have more of a tribal masai warrior look. Also savanna terrain is more interesting than sand terrain (which Academy already has). What I like that they included gnolls in Sahaar Stronghold. I've always thought myself that werehyenas make sense in an Africa-inspired Stronghold.
The sand theme for the Naga is weird. They have dinosaurs now? I think they should go the swamp/H3 fortress route for the next alteration of Sanctuary. Inferno could be made more interesting if a semi-industrial approach, as opposed to the more organic look in H6, is used. Something I've been thinking of is having like a Norse Necropolis. Valkyries are already associated with death and how awesome isn't undead vikings from a frozen over hell?
Humans need to get away from the overdone "zealous crusaders" archetype. I'd love for the faction to move more into the Enlightenment period. Let's replace ballistas with cannons and crossbowmen with musketeers. What I find difficult with Haven is how to find new, non-human creatures for it that fit.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 05, 2014 06:12 PM |
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Haven doesn't have to be zealous crusaders, but it should stay a medieval human town. It's HoMM tradition, and besides, what's a fantasy game without the generic knight-themed town? Musketeers should be in Forge, along with some steampunk creatures, like hot-air balloons.
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Eccentric Opinion
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 05, 2014 06:29 PM |
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mvassilev said:
Haven doesn't have to be zealous crusaders, but it should stay a medieval human town. It's HoMM tradition, and besides, what's a fantasy game without the generic knight-themed town?
That's the problem. It's overdone and boring. We have had the "forever stuck in the dark ages" knight trope as the basis for the Haven faction in every single HoMM game. Why not try something new? They don't have to be steampunk, though I would love that. You could also base a Haven town around one of the Free Cities. Maybe it could be Pirate themed? There are a lot more options for Haven than to just be what it always has been.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 05, 2014 07:20 PM |
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xerox said:
Why not try something new?
Because it would replace something good just because it's old. A Knight town isn't particularly original, but you have to have one. It's often the first faction new players try, because it looks welcoming, and it's aesthetically pleasing - the H5 Haven town screen was probably the most beautiful town screen in the series, rivaled only by the H2 Knight town screen. You can have more human towns (perhaps worshipping Sylath) with different designs (like Cove or steampunk Forge), but keep the original Knight town.
Also, I think a pirate town would work well in conjunction with Sanctuary.
Personally, I'd like to see 12 towns: classic Knight, H2-style Warlock (but with Manticores), H5-style Necropolis, H5-style Inferno, classic Sylvan, H5-style Academy, Conflux, Sanctuary/Cove hybrid (pirates, nagas, crabs, etc), H4-style Stronghold (with Blood Rage), H3 Fortress, H5 Fortress/steampunk Forge hybrid (and maybe with Venom Spawns as well), and a Dark Elf/Grove/Werewolf town.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 05, 2014 08:29 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 20:31, 05 Jan 2014.
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I also think Haven should stay as it is. It's the perfect introductory faction just as Mvassilev said. I'd prefer an H5 Haven rather than a H6 Haven, just because in my opinion the H6 one was way too "magical/light element" for a medieval town, and when I say this I'm mainly thinking about the teleporting light bulbs and the magic yellow horseman. The only creature that should be as such is the Angel, it was like that in H3 and H5 and it worked fine, I dunno why Ubi changed that.
About the 12 factions thing: Ubi's mantra dictates 9 factions maximum. I never understood why they would limit themselves like this though.
xerox said:
The sand theme for the Naga is weird. They have dinosaurs now? I think they should go the swamp/H3 fortress route for the next alteration of Sanctuary. Inferno could be made more interesting if a semi-industrial approach, as opposed to the more organic look in H6, is used. Something I've been thinking of is having like a Norse Necropolis. Valkyries are already associated with death and how awesome isn't undead vikings from a frozen over hell?
I agree on the sand thing, I thought of Sanctuary as a tropical/water theme oriented faction. Swamp town seems to be the closest to this, but not H3 Fortress.
Inferno should stick to the organic look imo. Iron chains and spikes don't look that well on them.
The problem with valkyries is that they would fit more into a snow themed town like the H5 Fortress, rather than Necro. And if Ubi sticks to the pyramid/book of the dead theme for Necro then I doubt that It'd look good to have norse mythology mixed with it.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 05, 2014 10:17 PM |
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I don't think it is a good thing for a faction to use the same theme every single game. I think it is lazy and boring. If I want to play H6 or H7 Haven, then I dont want to play the H5 town with fancier graphics.
Ideas for Haven Pirate faction:
Core: Pirate, Shark Raider (H6 Sharkman gone pillaging), Siren
Elite: Griffin, Crabman, Bombardier (cannon)
Champion: Leviathan
More traditional approach (more like naval empire than pirate):
Core: Footman, Musketeer, Sea Witch
Elite: Templar (aligned with Shalassa and Elrath, uses a trident), Bombardier, Siren
Champion: Griffin
Quote:
The problem with valkyries is that they would fit more into a snow themed town like the H5 Fortress, rather than Necro. And if Ubi sticks to the pyramid/book of the dead theme for Necro then I doubt that It'd look good to have norse mythology mixed with it.
Necro could fit in a snow setting. Aesthetically it could be norse architecture gone gothic, black stone.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 05, 2014 10:30 PM |
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Won't happen though, as Ubi wants Haven to stay as it's stablished by the lore...
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 05, 2014 10:48 PM |
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I don't get it. You'd change something good just for the sake of it? That's not how you get a decent and stable game. You need to have certain things set in stone, and imo Haven being a medieval themed faction is exactly that.
You could go play Cove with HotA if you wanna see pirates that badly
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 05, 2014 10:54 PM |
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I don't think it is good. I agree there are somethings that should be kept. I have a hard time seeing why keeping Haven with the same aesthetics it has always had is one of them.
Quote:
Won't happen though, as Ubi wants Haven to stay as it's stablished by the lore...
Ashan keeps expanding and it's not like they have to make things like DoC canon in the Heroes context.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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