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DIEGIS
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted November 10, 2013 05:44 AM |
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Edited by DIEGIS at 05:45, 10 Nov 2013.
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"They're all either compiled of various animals body parts...." hahaha 
I never liked sanctuary, such a false idea of a faction; besides graphics i am now realizing ubi accomplishments for H6.
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted November 10, 2013 07:40 AM |
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MattII said:
Elvin said:
Raelag84 said:
The problem is that the faction is one dimensional. It's "Asian" and kind of watery and then there is nothing else to it.
I do not understand the above. You could make a similar statement about haven, the dwarves, elves etc.
That's kind of the problem with the factions now Ubisoft has taken over.
I'd argue that's less the case now than before Ubi. H3 & co weren't reknowned for their incredible faction depth you know.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 10, 2013 09:35 AM |
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No? At least the warlocks weren't a bunch of dark elves with a couple of beasts tacked on. Also, the "Asian" faction in H3 was actually Rampart, at least in terms of architecture. Also note that Stronghold in H3 had the Roc/Thunderbird and Behemoth/Ancient Behemoth, while in H6 the number of beasts is diddly-squat. As for the rest, H3 did at least give Haven the Gryphon and Angel, it was the first appearance of Inferno, and the Necropolis changed out two creatures (well one creature, plus added one).
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 10, 2013 10:18 AM |
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Imo, you are comparing apples with oranges, because the Sanctuary isn't, err, lackluster because of its creatures or art, but because HoMM 6 is simply a lackluster game, compared with HoMM 3.
One reason is, that the HoMM 3 BF with its 15x11 hexes and 1x1 and 2x1 creatures make battles a lot more homogenous than the choppy, close square affair of V and VI.
Another is, that creatures are drowned in silly abilities that either clutter the status effect windows for units or are so simple and dominant (like the Priestesses) that they are boring.
Lastly, the Racial Abilities are, err, streamlined into "let's-hit-the-button" affairs (I wonder what kind of Racial Sanctuary would have had in HoMM 5, though).
We would have to compare the HoMM 6 Sanctuary with the HoMM 3 Fortress - and HoMM 3 Fortress wins handsomely, but that's more because of the above: I mean, Gorgons, Basilisks, Hydras and Wyvern are pretty cool creatures, considering only the name, but Basilisks and Gorgons are pretty underwhelming in their actual art - it's GAMEPLAY that makes all the difference here.
Sharkies are comprable with Lizardmen.
Priestesses could have been REAL Medusae (dropping the regeneration nonsense for, say, the HoMM IV special would have been so much better), which is cool.
Kappa are a joke, though - I could have done without them and have Dragonflies instead.
Kenshis are fine.
The Spirits and the Yukis are a bit out of theme/double action - a MONSTER is missing here.
The Kirins are fine.
So a decent to excellent Sanctuary would be easily posssible with a view on HoMM 3 Fortress.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted November 10, 2013 03:38 PM |
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Simpelicity said:
MattII said:
Elvin said:
Raelag84 said:
The problem is that the faction is one dimensional. It's "Asian" and kind of watery and then there is nothing else to it.
I do not understand the above. You could make a similar statement about haven, the dwarves, elves etc.
That's kind of the problem with the factions now Ubisoft has taken over.
I'd argue that's less the case now than before Ubi. H3 & co weren't reknowned for their incredible faction depth you know.
Exactly, we want gameplay and balance.
Faction depth, storyline, etc. are just by-products, important, but once you play a faction over and over, don't you get used to the troops anyway?
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Vindicator
Supreme Hero
Right Back Extraordinaire
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posted November 10, 2013 04:21 PM |
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Quote:
Also note that Stronghold in H3 had the Roc/Thunderbird and Behemoth/Ancient Behemoth, while in H6 the number of beasts is diddly-squat.
That's because beasts aren't interesting, even Pao-Kai are more interesting than giant animals, I've never liked the idea of just having giant bears or mammoths or stuff like that in lineups, no creativity there at all.
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Raelag84
Famous Hero
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posted November 10, 2013 06:20 PM |
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Edited by Raelag84 at 18:30, 10 Nov 2013.
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JollyJoker said:
...We would have to compare the HoMM 6 Sanctuary with the HoMM 3 Fortress...
Hey now, the Naga are more than just swamp reptiles. Legends of Naga have existed for over two thousand years, and are important symbols of arcane knowledge, weather and fertility. Stores about them are loaded with nuances and meaning. To say otherwise would be like saying that an angel is just a human with wings. That said the heroes 3 fortress faction was a lot of fun.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted November 10, 2013 06:59 PM |
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Edited by RMZ1989 at 19:00, 10 Nov 2013.
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Vindicator said:
Quote:
Also note that Stronghold in H3 had the Roc/Thunderbird and Behemoth/Ancient Behemoth, while in H6 the number of beasts is diddly-squat.
That's because beasts aren't interesting, even Pao-Kai are more interesting than giant animals, I've never liked the idea of just having giant bears or mammoths or stuff like that in lineups, no creativity there at all.
As I said before, agree with this statement(except if there are Riders on those Giant animals, then it is a bit more interesting).
I don't understand why is everyone obsessed with H3, it is much better for me if the faction makes sense(like Dark Elves that got the control of some of the beasts like Giant Lizards, Minotaurs and Hydras).
I like when faction represents one race(sort of), I really dislike when you just include random monsters in the town like how Dungeon is in H3 which doesn't make any sense and creatures aren't in any correlation whatsoever. Just bunch of mythological monsters.
Even though Manticors are probably among my favorite units, I liked H5 and H6 version of Dungeon more(well, H6 was a bit too purple I suppose).
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted November 10, 2013 07:24 PM |
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RMZ1989 said:
I don't understand why is everyone obsessed with H3
"Balanced" fun game with cool factions (or should I say towns) lineups 
RMZ1989 said:
it is much better for me if the faction makes sense(like Dark Elves that got the control of some of the beasts like Giant Lizards, Minotaurs and Hydras).
I like when faction represents one race(sort of), I really dislike when you just include random monsters in the town like how Dungeon is in H3 which doesn't make any sense and creatures aren't in any correlation whatsoever. Just bunch of mythological monsters.
Lorewise - probably.
But you can't just forget about gameplay and variety. I really liked NWC games because the lineups of the factions were always changing between the different iterations of the series.
If you make H7 and Haven faction is exactly the same than H6 it would be veeery boring IMO.
RMZ1989 said:
Even though Manticors are probably among my favorite units, I liked H5 and H6 version of Dungeon more(well, H6 was a bit too purple I suppose).
Don't remind me that abomination 
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 10, 2013 08:51 PM |
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Vindicator said:
That's because beasts aren't interesting, even Pao-Kai are more interesting than giant animals, I've never liked the idea of just having giant bears or mammoths or stuff like that in lineups, no creativity there at all.
Firstly, Behemoths are not 'giant animals' (certainly the H3 ones looked unlike anything on earth), and secondly, Rocs are a load more interesting that just having two or three orcs.
Raelag84 said:
Hey now, the Naga are more than just swamp reptiles. Legends of Naga have existed for over two thousand years, and are important symbols of arcane knowledge, weather and fertility. Stores about them are loaded with nuances and meaning.
And all the stories about them come from India, not Japan/China.
Quote:
I don't understand why is everyone obsessed with H3, it is much better for me if the faction makes sense(like Dark Elves that got the control of some of the beasts like Giant Lizards, Minotaurs and Hydras).
I like when faction represents one race(sort of), I really dislike when you just include random monsters in the town like how Dungeon is in H3 which doesn't make any sense and creatures aren't in any correlation whatsoever. Just bunch of mythological monsters.
H3 Dungeon had two or three beasts (depending on how you count Beholders), the rest were different races, and while I agree that they didn't gel particularly well in my mind either, I still consider the H3 Lineup more interesting for the fact that it didn't include four elves (H6 at least trimmed two of them off).
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Raelag84
Famous Hero
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posted November 10, 2013 10:54 PM |
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MattII said:
Raelag84 said:
Hey now, the Naga are more than just swamp reptiles. Legends of Naga have existed for over two thousand years, and are important symbols of arcane knowledge, weather and fertility. Stores about them are loaded with nuances and meaning.
And all the stories about them come from India, not Japan/China.
Dam strait! I was saying that for months, before heroes 6 was even released. Just ask Elvin.
I also argued that heroes III fortress creatures were not good analogies to what Naga are.
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Vindicator
Supreme Hero
Right Back Extraordinaire
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posted November 10, 2013 11:50 PM |
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Quote:
Rocs are a load more interesting that just having two or three orcs.
Not to me they're not, they're just giant eagles. Sure, they're better than other animals because of their grounding in mythology, but they're still boring.
As for Behemoths, you're right, they're not animals. In fact, I have no idea what they are.
What is that? What is it supposed to do? Why are its claws and fangs so disproportionately long? What's with the tuft of hair/fur on its back and head but otherwise a tiny peach fuzz?
I don't know, it just looks too weird and incapable to be impressive to me.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 11, 2013 01:47 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 01:50, 11 Nov 2013.
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Vindicator said:
Not to me they're not, they're just giant eagles. Sure, they're better than other animals because of their grounding in mythology, but they're still boring.
More boring than another orc, that, let's face it, is not that different to the Core orc? At least the Roc can fly.
Quote:
What is that? What is it supposed to do? Why are its claws and fangs so disproportionately long? What's with the tuft of hair/fur on its back and head but otherwise a tiny peach fuzz?
None of the Biblical texts are really clear what the Behemoth looks like, which has lead to various suggestions, including hippopotami, elephants, water buffaloes, and even crocodiles.
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Vindicator
Supreme Hero
Right Back Extraordinaire
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posted November 11, 2013 02:14 AM |
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Quote:
More boring than another orc, that, let's face it, is not that different to the Core orc? At least the Roc can fly.
Are you talking about H5 or H6? Because in H6, they seem quite different to me, and even if they weren't I'd still rather take two creative units that are similar to each other than one creative and one boring one. Not to mention I don't really see how Roc belongs to Stronghold in any case.
Quote:
None of the Biblical texts are really clear what the Behemoth looks like, which has lead to various suggestions, including hippopotami, elephants, water buffaloes, and even crocodiles.
So it was decided to make it a recently shaved gorilla with abnormally long claws and fangs?
I'm not really intimidated nor awed by it to be honest...
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 11, 2013 02:38 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 09:17, 11 Nov 2013.
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Vindicator said:
...and even if they weren't I'd still rather take two creative units that are similar to each other than one creative and one boring one.
Except that the orcs aren't particularly 'creative', not the roc particularly 'uncreative'. Now if you could show me an orc that wasn't a stereotype of primitive brutality, sure, I'd say that was creative, but Ubisoft just isn't that good at imagination.
Quote:
So it was decided to make it a recently shaved gorilla with abnormally long claws and fangs?
I'm not really intimidated nor awed by it to be honest...
And I say it compares favourably to the bald gorilla that is the Cyclops (in H6 at least).
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted November 11, 2013 08:22 AM |
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Storm-Giant said:
If you make H7 and Haven faction is exactly the same than H6 it would be veeery boring IMO.
Yeah, bring back the Pikeman and priests! Although keep the marksmen and griffins...
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 11, 2013 09:48 AM |
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MattII said:
None of the Biblical texts are really clear what the Behemoth looks like, which has lead to various suggestions, including hippopotami, elephants, water buffaloes, and even crocodiles.
Job 40:15-24
New International Version (NIV)
15 "Look at Behemoth,
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.
16 What strength it has in its loins,
what power in the muscles of its belly!
17 Its tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of its thighs are close-knit.
18 Its bones are tubes of bronze,
its limbs like rods of iron.
19 It ranks first among the works of God,
yet its Maker can approach it with his sword.
20 The hills bring it their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.
21 Under the lotus plants it lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.
22 The lotuses conceal it in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround it.
23 A raging river does not alarm it;
it is secure, though the Jordan should surge against its mouth.
24 Can anyone capture it by the eyes,
or trap it and pierce its nose?
Sounds to me more like...
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 11, 2013 10:02 AM |
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That only works if you're a young-earth creationist, for the rest of us, a few damaged and incomplete fossils are an unlikely source.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted November 11, 2013 10:17 AM |
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Those "Behemoths" won't be able to fit onto a battlefield 
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 11, 2013 10:20 AM |
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Vindicator said:
Quote:
More boring than another orc, that, let's So it was decided to make it a recently shaved gorilla with abnormally long claws and fangs?
I'm not really intimidated nor awed by it to be honest...
Mutant Bear Hamster < >
Besides, what are orcs if not sapient, gorilla-like creatures?
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