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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 07, 2014 02:30 PM |
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There were 3 moons on the H5 Necro town's background 
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 07, 2014 04:16 PM |
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 07, 2014 04:47 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Don't forget that in the time line HoMM 5 happens AFTER HoMM 6, so Ashan ACQUIRES two moons, and the Dark Elves LOSE Dark Magic and WILL GO Destructive.
Which is kind of a problem: the future reference point is standing on feet of clay.
By your words I guess Destructive magic for Dungeon is canon for Ubisoft (at the times of fith eclipse and such)?
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 07, 2014 05:04 PM |
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Is magic types really touched upon that much in the lore?
I thought they were mainly a game mechanic.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted January 07, 2014 05:31 PM |
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Elvin said:
There have been a number of changes in lore and units but it's harder to tell for factions that have not appeared since then. Some of the things we do know:
- Rakshasas are no longer evil spirits bound by wizards but instead beastmen who have been imbued with air spirits.
- Dark elves can now hear 'the voices'  (Malassa's whispers)
- Minos are now the proud allies of dark elves rather than their slaves.
- Rangers can now shape-change into their totem animal.
- Centaurs no longer have a demonic origin but are now considered beastmen.
- Ashan no longer has 3 moons.
- Vampires are now considered an evolution of the liches while in H5 liches had a higher tier.
- Sprites no longer look like mini-glories but have a leaf-like texture.
- Dragon knights can now transform into the avatar of their dragon God.
- H5 dungeon warlocks didn't even have dark magic in their guild but now it is their core magic.
Those are just off the top of my head. I bet there are more than I am not even aware of.
Ekhm...
- Rakshasa were ancient, vengeful spirits, not necessary evil.
- Dragon Knights always could change their shape (the most powerful ones). It was stated in lore published by Ubisoft before H5 came out (and still should be available to read somewhere on Heroes Community).
- Dark Elves did have Dark Magic instead of Summoning Magic during beta. IIRC it was changed by the sake of balance (Destruction and Dark Magic with hero whose main attribute is Spell Power? Not overpowered at all ). You can see leftovers of Dark Magic in H5 Dungeon in form of Lethos and Yrbeth skills or Shadow Witch spellbook.
(Nival did a lot of changes but didn't "clear" the game after that - so heroes and units still have skills and spells not avaiable in their guild or Dungeon creatures growth was not adjusted, when their Elemental Chain racial skill was butchered).
- Liches and Vampires connection was cleared in one of newsletters from Erwan Le Breton about Heresh and Necropolis, published some time before or after Hammers of Fate expansion. IIRC first mention about Vampiers being "evolution"* of Liches was in Dark Messiah.
*It's hard to me find a better world to describe connection between these two undeads.
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 07, 2014 06:43 PM |
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Yeah, the whole spell schools things is stupid. Yes, it's a thematic but also a game mechanic. I have a hard time seeing there's actual magic racism in Ashan where a dark elf can't learn light or summoning magic because he or she happens to be a dark elf.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 07, 2014 08:26 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
JollyJoker said:
Don't forget that in the time line HoMM 5 happens AFTER HoMM 6, so Ashan ACQUIRES two moons, and the Dark Elves LOSE Dark Magic and WILL GO Destructive.
Which is kind of a problem: the future reference point is standing on feet of clay.
By your words I guess Destructive magic for Dungeon is canon for Ubisoft (at the times of fith eclipse and such)?
Well, no, that's kind of THE PROBLEM, which is why I posted that.
Lots of HoMM V stuff is, shall we say, OUTDATED, when it comes to the lore. Still, the time of HoMM V comes AFTER that of HoMM VI. So, for example, Minotaurs, while cool fraggers in HoMM 6, tons of HPs, solid damage, proud, and free fighters with an uncanny anticipation, will deteriorate to slaves, half as strong as their forefathers, slow like molasses, not worth squat.
Or Dark Elves will somehow forget all the call magic stuff, the only guardians of Malassa's wisdom being those Witches that, umm, probably used said Dark Magic to leech the Minos out of their strength. And with the Warlocks becoming wielders of brute magic force, the Faceless seem to have left because of that.
Makes it somewhat difficult to stride further into the future AND keep to the lore.
Now, I like the Dark Dark Elves better than the Destructive ones, mind you, still I think it was a bad move to go into the past on one hand and alter the lore significantly on the other, making things a bit awkward to develop.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 07, 2014 09:17 PM |
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But they can always do the "screw H5" and work over the work done with H6 & recent releases, can't them?
It seems the best call...
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 08, 2014 12:16 AM |
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Storm-Giant said:
But they can always do the "screw H5" and work over the work done with H6 & recent releases, can't them?
It seems the best call...
Yes and no.
Ubi's main argumentation for ditching the old universe in favor of Ashan was that it would be easier to keep things consistent.
If they straight up acknowledge their mistakes they may gain some respect but will be regarded as flimsy.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 08, 2014 12:42 AM |
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things like minotaurs becoming slaves and dark elves starting to use more destructive magic are not nescessarily inconsistent, it could very well be development of dark elf lore
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 08, 2014 01:58 PM |
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xerox said:
things like minotaurs becoming slaves and dark elves starting to use more destructive magic are not nescessarily inconsistent, it could very well be development of dark elf lore
But then Minos would suck and I don't like that.
I want powerful, big Minotaurs, armed with an axe and dealing powerful blows.
Seriously, screw H5
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted January 08, 2014 05:49 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
But then Minos would suck and I don't like that.
I want powerful, big Minotaurs, armed with an axe and dealing powerful blows.
Seriously, screw H5
I'm not sure how their damage is tied to their freedom. They can still be big and muscly and damaging even if they're slaves.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 08, 2014 06:57 PM |
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Simpelicity said:
Storm-Giant said:
But then Minos would suck and I don't like that.
I want powerful, big Minotaurs, armed with an axe and dealing powerful blows.
Seriously, screw H5
I'm not sure how their damage is tied to their freedom. They can still be big and muscly and damaging even if they're slaves.
If they stick to H5 concept, they'll be weak (again).
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 08, 2014 09:01 PM |
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At any rate, it's not like anyone buys that H5 choices were intentional with the past timeline in mind. You can find logical explanations like JJ's but.. let's face it, there have been more major retcons than that And Nival no doubt had some artistic freedom too.
Thanks Avonu.
I don't remember ever seeing that part about dragon knights and I was pretty sure I'd read everything at the time. Tieru never bothered transforming though so it's all the same to me.
Man, a destructive/dark dungeon would have been awesome. Summoning was useless most of the time and not really fitting with the dungeon gameplay/mentality..
I remember the newsletter about liches but like with the dragon knights, the lore was never implemented in H5 so..
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 08, 2014 09:42 PM |
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I repeat myself, but the RPE mod of HoMM 5 DOES THAT.
Err, the Sylvans have Summoning there. WASP SWARM - suddenly makes sense.
Anyway. Best HoMM game so far: HoMM 5 with RPE (plus associated) mods. Sans the editor, of course - but give it the HoMM 3 or 4 editor, and the game is stellar.
*Back to playing Island of Desire as Blue Dungeon Warlock*
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 08, 2014 09:52 PM |
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Such a shame it came out so late  The skill redesign is just beautiful.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 08, 2014 09:57 PM |
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What's this RPE mod, where can I find it?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 08, 2014 10:20 PM |
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 08, 2014 10:39 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 22:39, 08 Jan 2014.
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JollyJoker said:
It's here
Arigatou JJ, seems a cool mod, Imma try it.
Just to stay on topic: I say screw the lore, as long as Ubi delivers a good, stable, bug free H7 it's all ok with me.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 08, 2014 11:18 PM |
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If necessary, Ubi can come up with justifications for changes to factions without directly contradicting lore. Like, "After being enslaved, Minotaurs gradually rose in social status..." It's better than contradicting lore without explanation.
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Eccentric Opinion
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