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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 05, 2014 11:11 PM |
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xerox said:
Quote:
Won't happen though, as Ubi wants Haven to stay as it's stablished by the lore...
Ashan keeps expanding and it's not like they have to make things like DoC canon in the Heroes context.
wut
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 05, 2014 11:32 PM |
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You can expand on that lore and fill the holes, yes?
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 05, 2014 11:35 PM |
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Considering the next installment probably'll take part somewhere in that timeline, I don't see how Haven'd earn something like gunpower, you know...
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 06, 2014 12:27 AM |
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Academy had gunpowder in H5. It is not unfeasible for Haven to have reached that level of technology some time after Dark Messiah.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 06, 2014 12:36 AM |
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xerox said:
Academy had gunpowder in H5. It is not unfeasible for Haven to have reached that level of technology some time after Dark Messiah.
But is the H5 Academy considered canon? I'm not sure, not at all after re-reading Elvin post
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 06, 2014 01:12 AM |
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They don't have to make the factions like DoC, but it's certainly good inspiration.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted January 06, 2014 07:17 AM |
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Storm-Giant said:
xerox said:
Academy had gunpowder in H5. It is not unfeasible for Haven to have reached that level of technology some time after Dark Messiah.
But is the H5 Academy considered canon? I'm not sure, not at all after re-reading Elvin post
Sorry, where in that post are Gremlins considered non-canon?
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 06, 2014 12:03 PM |
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We know that some stuff of H5 was considered non-canon (like Dark Elves?), and considering there are no gremlins in DoC lineup...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 06, 2014 12:45 PM |
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Dark elves are pretty canonical - if we exclude their change in gameplay. And the absence of gremlins from doc says little. For one, doc adds creatures at its own pace and secondly there is a 400 year difference between the two timelines.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 06, 2014 07:30 PM |
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Then what of H5 was considered non-canon? You give me doubts Elvin!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 06, 2014 11:21 PM |
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Can there be something non-canon in an official release? It's not like H5 was fan-made. If Ubi decided to put gremlins in Academy then gremlins are canon.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 06, 2014 11:31 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 23:33, 06 Jan 2014.
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There have been a number of changes in lore and units but it's harder to tell for factions that have not appeared since then. Some of the things we do know:
- Rakshasas are no longer evil spirits bound by wizards but instead beastmen who have been imbued with air spirits.
- Dark elves can now hear 'the voices'  (Malassa's whispers)
- Minos are now the proud allies of dark elves rather than their slaves.
- Rangers can now shape-change into their totem animal.
- Centaurs no longer have a demonic origin but are now considered beastmen.
- Ashan no longer has 3 moons.
- Vampires are now considered an evolution of the liches while in H5 liches had a higher tier.
- Sprites no longer look like mini-glories but have a leaf-like texture.
- Dragon knights can now transform into the avatar of their dragon God.
- H5 dungeon warlocks didn't even have dark magic in their guild but now it is their core magic.
Those are just off the top of my head. I bet there are more than I am not even aware of.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 06, 2014 11:37 PM |
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But H5 was their first work in Ashan, and part of the lore & stuff was made by Nival too. And in the last years we've seen Ubisoft doing a work to unify and set up a lore (see the Ashan Compemdium for instance).
Edit: @Elvin's post 
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 07, 2014 12:22 AM |
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Elvin said:
- Rakshasas are no longer evil spirits bound by wizards but instead beastmen who have been imbued with air spirits.
- Dark elves can now hear 'the voices' (Malassa's whispers)
- Minos are now the proud allies of dark elves rather than their slaves.
- Rangers can now shape-change into their totem animal.
- Centaurs no longer have a demonic origin but are now considered beastmen.
- Ashan no longer has 3 moons.
- Vampires are now considered an evolution of the liches while in H5 liches had a higher tier.
- Sprites no longer look like mini-glories but have a leaf-like texture.
- Dragon knights can now transform into the avatar of their dragon God.
- H5 dungeon warlocks didn't even have dark magic in their guild but now it is their core magic.
W-Wha... Tha fukk is this! They call those minor changes? One day you see 3 moons in Ashan, then the next day: puff! Talking about astronomical shifts in lore. Then there's the dark elves... How can they switch destructive magic with dark magic just like that? Did they started worshiping some other dragon god at some point in history?
This is just... stupid, you can't expect to have a satisfied community when things like this happen. Changing things like that, we want a decent game from them but they stumble on lore stuff. They can't get their snow straight, such disappointment  
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted January 07, 2014 02:59 AM |
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Stevie said:
Elvin said:
- Rakshasas are no longer evil spirits bound by wizards but instead beastmen who have been imbued with air spirits.
- Dark elves can now hear 'the voices' (Malassa's whispers)
- Minos are now the proud allies of dark elves rather than their slaves.
- Rangers can now shape-change into their totem animal.
- Centaurs no longer have a demonic origin but are now considered beastmen.
- Ashan no longer has 3 moons.
- Vampires are now considered an evolution of the liches while in H5 liches had a higher tier.
- Sprites no longer look like mini-glories but have a leaf-like texture.
- Dragon knights can now transform into the avatar of their dragon God.
- H5 dungeon warlocks didn't even have dark magic in their guild but now it is their core magic.
W-Wha... Tha fukk is this! They call those minor changes? One day you see 3 moons in Ashan, then the next day: puff! Talking about astronomical shifts in lore. Then there's the dark elves... How can they switch destructive magic with dark magic just like that? Did they started worshiping some other dragon god at some point in history?
This is just... stupid, you can't expect to have a satisfied community when things like this happen. Changing things like that, we want a decent game from them but they stumble on lore stuff. They can't get their snow straight, such disappointment
Well, I'm not sure.. I'm far from a lore expert.. But, I like see this with "good eyes".. so I would call all these more of a lore adaption than a lore change.
And some of them are interesting, this one e.g.:
- Rangers can now shape-change into their totem animal.
In short, this would mean they have intensified their bound with "nature" (sylanna) in some way.. Imo, this "adaptation"/change could lead to some interesting new (or improved) gameplay options.. =]
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 07, 2014 03:32 AM |
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Yes, surely the world is ending because three moons we never, ever heard of in the games were retconned.
I did like the Rakshasa better as crazy, vengeful spirits though. In H6, I imagined them being the main Shantiri race but as I understand the Shantiri were basically all Elder races bundled up in one nation.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 07, 2014 09:09 AM |
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Don't forget that in the time line HoMM 5 happens AFTER HoMM 6, so Ashan ACQUIRES two moons, and the Dark Elves LOSE Dark Magic and WILL GO Destructive.
Which is kind of a problem: the future reference point is standing on feet of clay.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted January 07, 2014 11:13 AM |
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Yeah, but given the old timeline, the necromancers shouldn't have been a separate faction for at least another two centuries.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 07, 2014 11:23 AM |
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xerox said:
Yes, surely the world is ending because three moons we never, ever heard of in the games were retconned.
Well it's true it's not that majore of a change, I just wanted to make a play on words there. But really, Ashan acquiring 2 more moons seems a bit strange to me.
Thanks JJ for the lore info 
@Jhb: I get ya, but what do you make of centaurs being of demonic origin just to have Ubi say later that they're actually beastmen? Isn't that, lore-wise, a bit stretchy?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 07, 2014 01:08 PM |
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where does this three moon stuff come from anyway? never heard of it
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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