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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 11, 2014 02:39 PM |
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The Free Cities I've found out about are Hammerfall, Karthal, Stonehelm and Stormcliff (yay Ylath!). I have no idea where the last one is located.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 11, 2014 02:43 PM |
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Let's not get too ambitious here.
The deeper the game mechanics get, the more bugged the end product is likely to be.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 11, 2014 02:54 PM |
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Avirosb said:
Let's not get too ambitious here.
The deeper the game mechanics get, the more bugged the end product is likely to be.
Reducing the number of creature abilities (mainly on Elite and Core levels) is already less ambitious, isn't it?
And it's not like we need a lot of creature abilities in the skill system, H5 skillwheel showew a lot of perks without them, it would be just mixing a bit.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 11, 2014 03:48 PM |
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Stevie said:
And I fail to see the connection between the potential direction of H7 with MMX  What does that have to do with anything?
For starters, race bonuses/weaknesses.
Humans have air resistance and free skills.
Orcs have improved criticals and resistance to debuffs.
Dwarves have fire resistance and extra health.
Elves have earth resistance and evade bonus.
Secondly, favoured skills/schools for each class. The freemage for instance had 5 levels in prime and 4 levels in light, perhaps it could be a sign of things to come? I doubt ubi would make skills with 5 levels of mastery but there could theoretically be a level restriction. That some races cannot get expert in some skills. Or that they get less advanced abilities in skills they are not particularly good at.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 11, 2014 04:02 PM |
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Elvin said:
Secondly, favoured skills/schools for each class. The freemage for instance had 5 levels in prime and 4 levels in light, perhaps it could be a sign of things to come? I doubt ubi would make skills with 5 levels of mastery but there could theoretically be a level restriction. That some races cannot get expert in some skills. Or that they get less advanced abilities in skills they are not particularly good at.
Well, that kind of restrictions were present in M&M 6-8 and it wasn't extrapolated to Heroes franchise. It isn't new...
On the other hand, it has never been tested on a Heroes game. Are you suggesting it may happen in H7?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 11, 2014 04:19 PM |
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Avirosb said:
Let's not get too ambitious here.
The deeper the game mechanics get, the more bugged the end product is likely to be.
I don't want this franchise to play safe. The potential of this game is ridiculous if you think of it. Bugs can be fixed, but you can't fix an entire game when it becomes impossible to improve. You'll have to make another one from scratch. So Ubi should think big from the very beginning if they aim for success.
And about skillwheel, that was the most enjoyable skill tree in all Heroes. But this time, I want one even more deep, maybe 2-3 times bigger with even more cross-perks from different skills.
For example Attack + Destructive Magic:
--> Tactics ---> ...
- ---> Blade of Fire (with Master of Fire)
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Attack -> --> Battle Frenzy ---> Blade of Ice (with Master of Ice)
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- ---> Blade of Storms (with Master of Storms)
--> Archery ---> ...
(Blade of Fire - Creatures' melee attacks are now enchanted with Fire. The target enemy will suffer a decrease in defense when hit in melee. The reduction depends on the attackers stack size and tier compared to the target's ones.)
(Blade of Ice - Creatures' melee attacks are now enchanted with Ice. There's a 50% chance that the enemy target hit in melee will suffer a freezing effect, reducing its initiative by 0.2. Not stackable.)
(Blade of Storms - Creatures' melee attacks are now enchanted with the power of Storms. There is a 20% chance that the target enemy will be struck by a Lightning Bolt after an attack, suffering it's effects. May trigger on a turn only once per target.)
And I could expand even more on that, but I gotta stick with the 3 perks per skill thingy.
Wouldn't those be some nice perks, especially for dark elves?
I'm fantasizing again...
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kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted January 11, 2014 06:00 PM |
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All this wishful thinking will probably hit a wall once Ubi "the student grinder" Soft hires more trainees to code HOMM 7
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Ubisoft web browser MMO best MMO.
-Bitmaid
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted January 11, 2014 09:22 PM |
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kayna said:
All this wishful thinking will probably hit a wall once Ubi "the student grinder" Soft hires more trainees to code HOMM 7
LOL.. Let's hope that at least they train the trainees next time.. =P
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 11, 2014 09:26 PM |
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jhb said:
kayna said:
All this wishful thinking will probably hit a wall once Ubi "the student grinder" Soft hires more trainees to code HOMM 7
LOL.. Let's hope that at least they train the trainees next time.. =P
Better hire the masters if first place then 
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 11, 2014 09:39 PM |
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Simultaneous turns on the battlefield, now there's innovation for you.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 11, 2014 09:45 PM |
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If we want Inferno to sit out for the next installment then a great setting would be in the period when the Necromancers rose up against the Wizards in a civil war. Apparently, it ended with an event that desolated most of their lands. See? Story involving either arcane or necromantic weapons of mass destruction right there.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 11, 2014 10:09 PM |
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xerox said:
If we want Inferno to sit out for the next installment then a great setting would be in the period when the Necromancers rose up against the Wizards in a civil war. Apparently, it ended with an event that desolated most of their lands. See? Story involving either arcane or necromantic weapons of mass destruction right there.
With blinding flashes and turns of pages? 
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 11, 2014 10:19 PM |
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For the Necromancers, certainly!
For Ashan as we know it? Unfortunately not=(
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted January 12, 2014 08:10 AM |
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Avirosb said:
Simultaneous turns on the battlefield, now there's innovation for you.
SO who get's the preemptive strike / retaliation first?
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 12, 2014 09:34 AM |
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Avirosb said:
Simultaneous turns on the battlefield, now there's innovation for you.
You might as well play a RTS then ... What's the point of playing a turn-based game if you want simultaneous turns on the adventure map and simultaneous turns on the battlefield ?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 12, 2014 10:59 AM |
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Knowing Avirosb a bit, my impression was that his post was sdarcastic.
Quote:
Secondly, favoured skills/schools for each class. The freemage for instance had 5 levels in prime and 4 levels in light, perhaps it could be a sign of things to come? I doubt ubi would make skills with 5 levels of mastery but there could theoretically be a level restriction. That some races cannot get expert in some skills. Or that they get less advanced abilities in skills they are not particularly good at.
I think it makes sense to look at the way the initial HoMM (I) was set up. Simply four hero stats two of which would influence the damage output of creatures and two of which would control the magic output of the heroes. Note that Knowledge referred to the number of times a hero could carry a specific spell (and did not translate into mana points). So in effect, a town's mage guild would equip a hero with spell scrolls up to a maximum of what he could carry.
Secondly, every town could use every hero, every hero type excelling in ONE of the 4 skills and in either might or magic.
Thirdly, there were more creature levels in the towns (six) than army slots (5).
So there wasn't anything wrong with playing Knight with a Barbarian and Warlock with a Knight - and there wasn't anything wrong with mixing armies. Basically the game was so small that there was no distinct factional feeling.
You might say that there were 4 different hero types which would all develop differently, while every town had an ASSOCIATED hero type, you could play every towwn with every hero.
That's the main difference with the approach then and the approach now: if NOW heroes are distinctive - you will be stuck with them and ONLY them.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 12, 2014 12:18 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 12:19, 12 Jan 2014.
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Elvin said:
Stevie said:
And I fail to see the connection between the potential direction of H7 with MMX What does that have to do with anything?
For starters, race bonuses/weaknesses.
Humans have air resistance and free skills.
Orcs have improved criticals and resistance to debuffs.
Dwarves have fire resistance and extra health.
Elves have earth resistance and evade bonus.
Secondly, favoured skills/schools for each class. The freemage for instance had 5 levels in prime and 4 levels in light, perhaps it could be a sign of things to come? I doubt ubi would make skills with 5 levels of mastery but there could theoretically be a level restriction. That some races cannot get expert in some skills. Or that they get less advanced abilities in skills they are not particularly good at.
The second part of your post got my attention, Elvin. I think Ubi should think about advancing in that direction. I mean I just thought about it and Having 5 levels of mastery + hero restrictions could be a really cool idea!
Take Orcs for example:
Might Heroes could have all 5 mastery levels in skills such as Attack, Defense, War Machines and others, but only 2-3 levels in Magic schools.
While Magic Heroes, Shamans, could have only 4 mastery levels in Attack, Defense , etc but with 3-4 levels in Magic schools.
And same for others, take Necro for example:
Might Heroes with 3-4 levels of mastery in Attack, Defense etc. but only 3-4 levels on Magic schools.
While Necromancers could have 5 in Magic schools but 2-3 in Might skills.
And the rest of them like Luck, Leadership, Sorcery, Enlightenment or whatnot could be adjusted accordingly. And you could outright remove some useless skills for some heroes, like 0 mastery level on Leadership for Necro.
What do you guys think?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 12, 2014 12:47 PM |
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It's too restrictive on strategy for my liking, since you should be able to make choice what to take (and what not).
AGAIN, this MIGHT make ssense if you you could hire ANY hero, but with faction abilities and moral and so on, in practise you are limited to the hero types of your faction.
Now, the question is, if you already have faction specials (that is, one or more DESTINCTIVE faction traits) and a certain brand of army with creatures that excel in some areas and suck in others, isn't THAT already distinctive enough? Shouldn't the heroes then be MOSTLY free to develop as a player sees fit?
Or if you WANT heroes to develop into a specific direction, wouldn't you then be better off assigning different probabilities for skills instead of crossing some from the list altogether?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 12, 2014 12:54 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 13:09, 12 Jan 2014.
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@Stevie
Maybe if skills had 3 levels of mastery and some races could only get advanced in some skills instead of expert. H4 had 5 levels of mastery and it sucked. Why do I think so? It took like 13 levels till you got grandmaster in a skill, which doesn't leave much room for picking other skills. I liked how H5 allowed you to pick 4-5 skills and pursue different combinations. The only way I'd imagine 5 levels of mastery to work would be to attain levels ridiculously fast and reduce their effectiveness but this sounds pretty meh. 5 levels of mastery with normal levelling and an increased level cap would still allow you to mix skills but.. only in really big maps. I don't want my early to mid builds to be composed of my racial and one other skill. There's no creativity in that.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 12, 2014 01:20 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 13:24, 12 Jan 2014.
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You can get extra skills with map objects, Elvin, like witch huts and training at academies. H3 did a nice job in this respect. And you could even reward secondary quests from huts with skills. So with the right map objects in place I don't see how extending the mastery level to 5 could be a problem.
Besides, having only 3 perks per skill seems terribly restrictive to me. I wouldn't bother with 5 mastery levels if it weren't for the fact that they would give 5 perks. That's what I really want. If 3 mastery levels would come with 5 perks, I would be fine with it.
Though having 5 mastery levels (each awarding 1 perk) + hero class restrictions seems the best idea imo.
@JJ: So what's the point in having different hero classes if they'd be all the same? Just so that one's called knight and one cleric? I really want more than that.
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