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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 19, 2014 10:59 AM |
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No, I mean a town can only be founded where there's an existing 'settlement'.
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LucPatenaude
Famous Hero
Owning all 7 Heroes games
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posted July 21, 2014 05:50 PM |
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Many devs. already worked and tried that idea...
...many times over and, failed at doing so.
The devs. can not figure out the way to make a farm house and barn a means to be able to build from that very small settlement type. The way I get to see it at a possible way to do it is: Forcing the game to consider the possibility to have it own settlement view so, from there attach the extra buildings that are required to build to make it a starting point of the status of an early type of urban area(more known as a village). It would be rather easy with the Haven faction but, nearly impossible for all of the other factions of the game.
Unless, the devs. could come up with a brilliant idea of considering the possibility that each faction could have a some kind of creature made to act as an equivalent of a peasant(farmer). See what I mean? A creature type that is literally civilian and, is fully ready to work hard for a living would be an option to add in the game. Once again, the Haven faction is, still, the easiest to picture as having non-violent bi-peds as the base citizen, since, we, are, after all, humans ourselves.
Non-violent citizens of a factions is, quite hard to picture but, not impossible. Once that is accomplished, other possibilities would auto. arise and, could be chosen in a map pre-made or RMG made by using a special window that pops up and gives you the option to opt for it or not.
My very old proposition arises with this new possibility. A King like figure is generated automatically on foot with a faction flag instead of a Hero(the Hero is now, considered purely as a mystically able soldier in command of troops = military that can be acquired at the tavern once such building is built and ready to use). Such King(representing the player) already has some troops at his disposal and, obviously, has basic druid like spell casting abilities to use when having to battle neutrals in order to find the ideal spot to order his many subjects(civilians)at commencing onto the very first buildings that constitute an imperial village of a starting settlement. The King remains as main protector of the village as long as the royal palace is not built(Throne room is in the palace auto.).
Interested in this early blueprint of a possible rebirth of the series? It sure sounds elaborate and different but, change is, sometimes the best way towards a much greater future in this classical strategic series.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 21, 2014 10:28 PM |
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Well if they can't do it based on an existing structure they aren't going to be able to do it any other way.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 22, 2014 08:14 AM |
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LucPatenaude said:
change is, sometimes the best way towards a much greater future in this classical strategic series.
Heroes IV and VI proved that for the majority of the fan-base, change is the worst thing that can happen. For me change, if executed correctly, is much welcomed, as it keeps the different iterations interesting. I really like your idea of having a kind of peasant for each faction and being able to turn a hovel into a village. Maybe you can also have something like exclusion zones, so you cannot found many villages close together. You can explain it by food supply needed to feed the town and it could be combined with the area of control.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 22, 2014 10:02 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 11:22, 22 Jul 2014.
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H4 and H6 proved that changes, if not properly implemented, can lead to issues.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 22, 2014 10:40 AM |
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MattII said:
H4 and H6 proved that changes, if not properly implemented can lead to issues.
While I absolutely agree, I think that at least for H4 it was more thannot properly implemented. Imho most changes in H4 were pretty well implemented. From what I read, the problem with H4 was mostly due to it being so much different from H1/2/3. Somewhere on this forum I read something like: H4 would have been a pretty good game if it was marketed as a spin-off, but as sequel it was crap. Of course a game will be better received when it is not all buggy and the changes do work, but I think there will still be a substantial part of the fan-base that will hate it because it is not (nearly identical to) H3.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 22, 2014 11:27 AM |
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H4 had the issue of being released before it was properly finished, which meant it bombed. Most of the good features were extracted and implemented into H5, eventually.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 22, 2014 11:43 AM |
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MattII said:
Most of the good features were extracted and implemented into H5, eventually.
Well, some of them were, while others were abandoned. The problem is that we (as a community) don't agree on which features were good
But even with H5, which was really mostly just an improved version of H3, people complained. For example about the graphics, that they are too WoW'ish. If you can't even change from 2D to 3D, what can you safely change?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 22, 2014 11:55 AM |
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Few complained about it being changed to 3D, what they were complaining about, as you said yourself, was that the style was too much like WoW. Never played that game (WoW) myself of course, but for me a lot of damage was done by the outrageous rescaling of the adventure map, a 'hero' should be an icon of a massive (or not so much so) army, and thus nothing should be scaled around them.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 22, 2014 01:52 PM |
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MattII said:
but for me a lot of damage was done by the outrageous rescaling of the adventure map, a 'hero' should be an icon of a massive (or not so much so) army, and thus nothing should be scaled around them.
I fully agree on this. And on H6 they made it even worse 
We need bigger representation of heroes, and creatures in the battlefield too. Realistic sized models makes no sense, they weren't in H1-3 for a reason.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 22, 2014 01:55 PM |
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MattII said:
for me a lot of damage was done by the outrageous rescaling of the adventure map, a 'hero' should be an icon of a massive (or not so much so) army, and thus nothing should be scaled around them.
which didn't bother me at all. I even think it would've bothered me if it would've been the other way around
What I meant to say is that there are quite a lot of people who don't like the future heroes instalment to deviate from heroes 3. Sometimes I think they just want a new H3 expansion (  HotA). As I stated already, personally I like changes between the games, because it gives me a reason to play the new game other than improved graphics, while it keeps being interesting to replay the older instalments.
Maybe the course of development for mmheroes will be an alternation between a game with radical changes and a game close to H3, but with the good changes from the previous instalment implemented...
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 22, 2014 02:01 PM |
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I also like some changes between each installment of the series, it helps making them more unique and special.
But there have to be some limits on the changes, imo. A resource reduction in theory can be interesting to try, but going from Gold/2 Common/4 special resources to Gold/2/1 is such a big change (and incoherent, since common resources remain the same) that it can easily fail and be targetered as a big mistake from the developers (or publishers in this case). A 1/2/2 resources would have been much more reasonable, imo.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 22, 2014 02:13 PM |
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With radical changes I did not mean that they necessary have to be really big, but that they change the gameplay in a big way. Like area of control did, or the fact that heroes are units on the battlefield. Of course the developer/publisher should always take care that it doesn't harm the gameplay as the resource reduction did, but that would then be a change which doesn't make it to the next instalment.
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LucPatenaude
Famous Hero
Owning all 7 Heroes games
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posted July 22, 2014 07:42 PM |
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Never mind growth factors as this game must...
...stay as uncomplicated as it can be possible.
The need for supply and demand is not an issue in a truly simplified PC video game. These civilians are auto. supplying themselves with food and medical supplies during the evening, night and early morning times in between days-turns.
So, knowing that fact, no need for the hired for military service level ones to be forced to provide extra tax revenues as, these new soldiers of very low tier are no longer working on the farms, ranches, plantations. The civilian owners of these food providing establishments will auto. hire their own help to compensate for the lowering of poor people's population being diminished through extensive enrolling and drafting into the extensive demand for soldiers of the royal army(war effort that taxes and strains the population of cities of a specific faction).
What I propose is the growth of the city, through showing what is built and showing on the fly-by's city screen onto the adventure map. So, that would mean the Fort walls would be at the size of the current city's main built keep then, later on, fully seeing the Citadel being built at the ex-Fort's main gate(the old fort keep being auto. torn down to make way for a keep with an arrow tower at the top of it at the gate itself). Now, in order to implement the Castle walls that get to act as auto. City limits and, true kingdom definition of a properly defended City, these are built a whole hex away from the, still, standing Citadel part of the primary walls. Also, showing fully, are the two towers plus a much larger keep that truly defines a well built Castle. Now, you get to see the levels 5 to 7 military installations and other high level military establishments. The visiting Hero and its army will now be the first line of defence, inside the Castle Walls(still showing on the adventure map). The Garrison Hero and its army will remain behind the Citadel Walls as the secondary and final line of defence(not showing on the adventure map). The Champion creatures more known as level 7s will now, join the garrison army as to guarantee success at repulsing the attacking army.
Plus, a city that does not touch a body of water at the start of the game could, finally touch it as to when the Castle Walls would reach the beach of such body of water(wide river, sea, ocean). Now, the shipyard building ability can become available.
This is true strategy to its outmost grandiose proportionality.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 22, 2014 09:03 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 21:10, 22 Jul 2014.
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It's also a completely screwed up idea that won't work. Why not? because it's messing with the map. Seriously, you say sitting a new town on an existing structure doesn't work? I say try H4, it worked there for mines, or try Age of Mythology, they made it work there as well.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 23, 2014 01:19 PM |
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I very much like the idea of having an inner and outer wall visible on the adventure map for a town. That would make sense and would spice things a bit. However I can think of 2 problems that pose quite a thread for the implementation of such a feature:
1. In the current 3D phase of the game where towns take quite the space, having a line of hexes surrounding it because of the Castle walls would be quite... unfitting to say the least. But, if they quit that real-size bullcrap there might be a chance for this to be seen as a feature. Otherwise we're talking about towns taking up to maybe even 20 hexes in space, which to me seems ridiculous.
2. I can see the problem if this won't come with preset areas. What would prevent me to plant my town 5 hexes near the enemy's? Why wouldn't I want to have my castle walls incorporate very important map objects? Or block a road to obtain map control? No, just stick with preset or else there will be problems.
I still don't get the idea of "workers". Are these another type of creature to be recruited? Or are these the level 1's of each faction? What role do they play and how is that relevant to the game?
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 23, 2014 02:24 PM |
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Stevie said:
Why wouldn't I want to have my castle walls incorporate very important map objects? Or block a road to obtain map control? No, just stick with preset or else there will be problems.
I would very much like to see the option to erect garrisons (border gates) at crucial points, like mountain passes. Maybe in combination with fog of war (guardable) border guards might also be interesting for keeping watch of your borders. Possible upgrades on mines could also work. For example increased production by expanding the mine, or fortifications for mine defence.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 23, 2014 03:19 PM |
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It could work. Maybe as an option inside the town to build up walls at the periphery of the control zone. With some ridiculous prices like 5000 gold for 1 hex face. That way you make it possible to chose where to plant them, not building the walls all around you at once. And the combat could well be like a citadel siege, with 2 towers on the side. Maybe some extra perks for the garrisoned creatures.
But the problem here is, who would build such a thing? First off it costs money, then you'll have to put some creatures in it. But that would spread your army strength too thinly. So what do you do then? Maybe have the option to build a training ground near the walls? Or some sort of additional dwelling inside the wall?
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 23, 2014 05:12 PM |
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Well, if you could completely wall of a passage (for high cost of course) that could be pretty useful. Then the enemy should have the possibility to tear the wall down again. This would be at the expense of time/resources and could require special siege equipment (that slows your army down). If you want to pass yourself you'll have to make a border gate or leave an opening, which will anyway be a weak spot.
Another option could be something like the watchtower from H5 fortress. A building that provides defensive units upon siege, which you cannot take with your army.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 23, 2014 10:38 PM |
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Here's an idea, what about the ability to cut down forest for wood? Oh wait, that stinks of RTS, but hey, so do all the other adventure-map modifying ideas here.
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