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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2014 12:51 PM |
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I actually like that idea. To modify/increase weekly production on specific creatures based on your main hero's specialty. Could be like Gelu's archers upgrade to sharpshooters. And the specs of a hero should go a bit further and modify more than just that. I'm thinking about adventure and kingdom stats, not just creatures or +1 ore and wood. Maybe the H4 governor mechanics could make a comeback in H7.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted March 11, 2014 01:30 PM |
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I'm not sure if having a more dominant effect of Hero specialties is the way to go. The problem comes with balancing them and with each Hero unique, that's going to be a nightmare. And be impossible too, which ultimately will result in specific Heroes being favored with others being ignored. By magnifying the Hero specialty beyond what has been done in previous games, you compound on that problem.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2014 01:53 PM |
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I disagree. Just one example:
3 heroes:
a) hero A with "taxpayer", +10% Kingdom income;
b) hero B with "recruiter", +3 for each core and 1 for each elite;
c) hero C with "vampire lord", increased lifesteal and a bonus ability;
I could think of more, but the idea here: you can choose on what to focus in a game. Something that really makes a difference. And it's not just bonuses, they come with a drawback - cuz: extra income is useless on the long run, more creatures for recruiting would put pressure on your economy and you'd end up getting more creatures for the enemy if they capture your town, and more lifesteal and an ability would just benefit one single unit and that on the battlefield.
I'm just tired of skills that give you a bonus to secondary skills or +1 attack every 2 levels. It could be way better than just that.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 11, 2014 02:32 PM |
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Stevie said:
And it's not just bonuses, they come with a drawback - cuz: extra income is useless on the long run
wut xD
As for specialities, I think I've said before they should be improved over the design of +% every level or a base bonus, to a standardized "bonus on levels 1, 5, 10, 20 and 30". For example, in H3 an ogre specialist could get the following bonus:
- Level 1: +1 to speed, attack, defense.
- Level 5: +2-4 of damage.
- Level 10: 20% to stun enemy.
- Level 20: +10 to HP.
- Level 30: +5 to attack, defense.
However, I do agree that heroes specialities shouldn't be too strong, since otherwise game balancing would be very hard, so I'm not 100% sure on how to approach this.
(My propposal tries to spread the bonuses over 30 levels so it's easier to balance, but it could still be not enough)
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Sarcyan
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 11, 2014 09:47 PM |
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Edited by Sarcyan at 01:27, 13 Mar 2014.
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Stevie said:
I actually like that idea. To modify/increase weekly production on specific creatures based on your main hero's specialty. Could be like Gelu's archers upgrade to sharpshooters. And the specs of a hero should go a bit further and modify more than just that. I'm thinking about adventure and kingdom stats, not just creatures or +1 ore and wood. Maybe the H4 governor mechanics could make a comeback in H7.
Hmmmmm, that sounds interesting, although as Maurice said it might be tough to find a good balance.
I don't know much yet about the whole lore of the game, and in my post I meant that heroes from the same faction (i.e. Sylvan, what have you) could be from different parts of the world -Xeen-. They would share the same basic units because of that, say... both heroes would have wolves...
For example, one hero is from an equivalent place to Minnesota in the game, while the other is from some place close to the Arctic, or Syberia, etc.
Both would have wolves, but the Minnesota guy or girl would have Grey wolves at their disposal --which means stronger wolves, with ore attack and hit points, albeit slower and not resistant to cold.
The guy or girl from Syberia would have Arctic wolves, which possess a lighter frame, weigh less and are used to cold. 
They would have better speed, resistance to cold and could evade some attacks because they are nimbler, but they would have fewer hit points and also worst attack.
Same for archers and so on. For instance, one hero could be the generic type using the typical archers we know.
Another hero could be from the same faction but he or she would be born in the equivalent place to England in the game.
So he/she would have Longbowmen at their disposal instead of your typical archers --perhaps the most famous English Longbow sounds familiar to you.
Longbowmen in your army would do more damage the further the enemy is, but the attack bonus would drop sharply the closer an opponent's unit is! It's give and take.
Same for training grounds, etc etc. i.e. Hero with generic cavalry and an hero from the equivalent of Hungary (think of the legendary Hungarian horse called Kincsem).
Finesse cavalry, with less hit points but more damage from Joust Bonus ('cos of speed), could evade attacks easily, and like the quarter mile American horse, would have superior speed and inferior resistance -which means the longer the game goes on, and the more you "harass" that unit, the Hussar like cavalry of said hero would receive a hitpoints penalty-.
You could appoint the master of a castle, but as for the bonus, I don't know. Maybe his/her specific units would be cheaper at that castle or things like that.
This could enhance strategy because you could use your strongest hero and visit every castle your faction owns, and combine your specific class units with the particular creatures of each master of the castle --say one castle creates Grey wolves and the other Arctic wolves.
If the hero you appointed as the owner of the castle is not present, creating specific units (of the same type) based on the place they were born would be much more expensive.
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Heroes of Might and Magic; They aren't only games, they are passions. And feelings. Laura Jackson is the most beautiful woman who has ever existed!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSBTC1HHN-E
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted March 13, 2014 12:24 PM |
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heroes 3 approach to specialties is quite good. Let there be heroes with creature specialty, economics heroes, creature boosters.
You pick the creature specialist of your choice for main and the rest for secondary heroes. We should have specialty in different tiers just like heroes3.
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Sarcyan
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 15, 2014 10:50 PM |
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natalka said:
heroes 3 approach to specialties is quite good. Let there be heroes with creature specialty, economics heroes, creature boosters.
You pick the creature specialist of your choice for main and the rest for secondary heroes. We should have specialty in different tiers just like heroes3.
That was something I very much liked about Heroes 3, when I began to figure out how beneficial it was. For instance, I had Sorsha, which was my favourite hero of the bunch I have while playing the original campaign of Heroes 3 and I noticed she had a bonus to swordsmen. So after realising this I began to amass swordsmen and the results were awesome to say the least.
Sorsha was a force to be reckoned with.
Still I'd retake that for another Heroes game, although having... let's say, a hero that adds bonus to Dragons too, not only smaller units.
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Heroes of Might and Magic; They aren't only games, they are passions. And feelings. Laura Jackson is the most beautiful woman who has ever existed!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSBTC1HHN-E
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 15, 2014 10:54 PM |
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Sarcyan said:
Still I'd retake that for another Heroes game, although having... let's say, a hero that adds bonus to Dragons too, not only smaller units.
 hi
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sarcyan
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 19, 2014 03:51 AM |
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Edited by sarcyan at 03:52, 19 Mar 2014.
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Storm-Giant said:
Sarcyan said:
Still I'd retake that for another Heroes game, although having... let's say, a hero that adds bonus to Dragons too, not only smaller units.
hi
That's what I meant. Thanks for sharing. I didn't get there yet though, I am in the Spoils of War campaign of Heroes 3, love those witches.
If all my wishes became true like that....
So now that we are into it, for Heroes 7 I would like:
- A Werewolf faction. It's been long overdue.
- Play by Email option. (unique feature that I fancy)
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Heroes of Might and Magic; They aren't only games, they are passions. And feelings. Laura Jackson is the most beautiful woman who has ever existed!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSBTC1HHN-E
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 19, 2014 09:26 AM |
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sarcyan said:
- A Werewolf faction. It's been long overdue.
- Play by Email option. (unique feature that I fancy)
Impossibru. Not happening.
1st - What would the 7 creatures be in a werewolf town? A smaller wolf, a bigger wolf and a wolves with different hair colours? And what'd be the story behind that, to integrate it with the rest of Ashan? It's just stupid. Werewolf is not a theme for a town, it's just a creature.
2nd - I'm not sure what you meant there. Log in with E-mail or play on web, like facebook games or w/e. Cuz the latter would be just... /facepalm.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 19, 2014 12:20 PM |
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Personally, I don't like the idea of play by email (too slow), I'd rather give more priority to Simultaneous Turns.
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sarcyan
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 19, 2014 01:43 PM |
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Edited by sarcyan at 14:08, 19 Mar 2014.
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Stevie said:
sarcyan said:
- A Werewolf faction. It's been long overdue.
- Play by Email option. (unique feature that I fancy)
Impossibru. Not happening.
1st - What would the 7 creatures be in a werewolf town? A smaller wolf, a bigger wolf and a wolves with different hair colours? And what'd be the story behind that, to integrate it with the rest of Ashan? It's just stupid. Werewolf is not a theme for a town, it's just a creature.
2nd - I'm not sure what you meant there. Log in with E-mail or play on web, like facebook games or w/e. Cuz the latter would be just... /facepalm.
he he, okay...
It can easily be a Town -like Cove and others-, as some could be regular humans in appearance and have houses, others could be created in a Den.
Their unique unit could be created in the heaven on the background. Why?
Their special unit would be a God, the legendary monstrous wolf Fenris, the enemy of Odin in the Norse mythology, from whom the name of the part of the wrist called "the wolf-joint" comes from --Fenris bit off the hand of the god Tyr at that location..
Fenris and Odin.
Fenris:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenrir
This faction could be especially powerful at night -night/day cycle could be created, a much needed feature-, weaker at day -except for one unit, later explained-...
AND they could have an unique power that shrouds the sun in darkness, effectively turning the day into night, hence enhancing their strengths.
1st) Let the faction have lesser units like Coyotes.
2nd) Ranged units: Just regular humans -human state- that can be transformed into werewolves. First tier: Rather rudimentary attack, are not very accurate, and throw stones at you. (worse than Halflings in HoMM2)
Cheap, weak, but have a very crucial advantage... They could be transformed into a pack of werewolves in battle if your hero has the proper ability/spell.
The 2nd tier would be also not very accurate, but have a stronger ranged attack. They would automatically become werewolves when attacked during mele.
3rd) Flying units: Other creatures of the night that go well with the theme and are familiar with wolves. Not strong at all, Strike and Return like Harpies.
Ravens -mysterious creatures- and Owls -night, nocturnal creatures-
4th) Stronger, larger wolves. Let's call them Kenai Peninsula wolves, probably the largest wolf species ever known.
5th) Regular werewolves, of course. Leaping attack ability -the further the jump the greater the damage, similar to Jousting Bonus- , vicious claws and tooth.
Advanced unit: Greymane werewolves, for instance, stronger, has a larger and thicker mane, high Morale. Unique ability: Howlers. (increase the morale of all your units in the battlefield)
6th) Special unit: Skoll and Hati. They are siblings in Norse mythology, their father is Fenris.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sk%C3%B6ll (Skoll, Wikipedia's article)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hati_Hr%C3%B3%C3%B0vitnisson (Hati, Wikipedia's article)
They are large creatures, have a dual attack -if the battle takes place during the day, then Skoll will have a stronger attack, while Hati would have a weaker attack.
At night though, the tables turn and Skoll would have a weaker attack while Hati's attack will improve.
In the Norse mythology Skoll chases the horses dragging the Chariots that contains the Sun, so he is stronger while attacking during the day.
Also in Norse mythology, Hati is a wolf that chases the moon across the night sky. The so called moon-snatcher. Hence stronger at night.
You can see both Skoll and Hati chasing the sun and the moon, respectively, in this picture.
As for the lore, I understand your point. I am not much into it 'cos I am a newbie and care about other things now --had they add a new faction part of the world the transition would be seamless for me.
Lore-wise.... There is room for improvement.
The lore can be expanded upon and enriched for future generations. Simple as that.
Play by email is more a geeky petition than something I lose sleep over.
The idea: seed map created in game, sent to your email, send it to a friend wherever they are, they load it and make a move, which is sent to your email (the seed map will contain your email address, and theirs when they make a move, transparent for both, he / she doesn't even need to know your email address or vice versa).
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Heroes of Might and Magic; They aren't only games, they are passions. And feelings. Laura Jackson is the most beautiful woman who has ever existed!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSBTC1HHN-E
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 19, 2014 02:13 PM |
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So a faction full of wolves and their variations, in the end. Brilliant.
Also the 9 "major" factions of Ashan have already been decided. So even a good idea for a new one wouldn't be taken in consideration. So you can stop dreaming about it now. I'm telling ya, the only way you'd see shapeshifters is either as neutrals or maybe a core/elite in the Sylvan line-up. Though I doubt that we'll see any of them.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted March 19, 2014 02:33 PM |
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Storm-Gian said:
tFor example, in H3 an ogre specialist could get the following bonus:
- Level 1: +1 to speed, attack, defense.
- Level 5: +2-4 of damage.
- Level 10: 20% to stun enemy.
- Level 20: +10 to HP.
- Level 30: +5 to attack, defense.
What game is this!? 
I don't like how H3 handled creature specialists, because it was mainly level 1 specialists which were useful and it was only some level 1 creature specialists were worthwhile of pursuing, and in most cases it was more because of an improved starting army and the early +1 speed (+2 due to terrain).
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Living time backwards
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Lord_Immortal
Famous Hero
DoR Dev Team
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posted March 19, 2014 02:54 PM |
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A werewolf-themed town?
There may be:
1) Bandits/Rogues
2) Harpies
3) Gargoyles
4) Direwolves (like ASoIaF)
5) Mercenaries
6) Dark Priests
7) Werewolves
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 19, 2014 03:28 PM |
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OhforfSake said:
Storm-Gian said:
tFor example, in H3 an ogre specialist could get the following bonus:
- Level 1: +1 to speed, attack, defense.
- Level 5: +2-4 of damage.
- Level 10: 20% to stun enemy.
- Level 20: +10 to HP.
- Level 30: +5 to attack, defense.
What game is this!?
None, since it's my propposal. When I say 'H3' I'm refering to H3 creature stats, just that. But the idea is transforming specialist in giving bonuses only on certain levels (1/5/10/20/30)
Numbers could be tweaked, of course.
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Sarcyan
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 30, 2014 08:37 AM |
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Stevie said:
So a faction full of wolves and their variations, in the end. Brilliant.
Also the 9 "major" factions of Ashan have already been decided. So even a good idea for a new one wouldn't be taken in consideration. So you can stop dreaming about it now. I'm telling ya, the only way you'd see shapeshifters is either as neutrals or maybe a core/elite in the Sylvan line-up. Though I doubt that we'll see any of them.
Well, there are more than wolves there. There are crows, owls..., and other creatures of the night.
Also the idea of a moon chaser and a sun chaser can make for a very interesting creature in the faction.
As long as they don't remove the 9 factions we have today, adding another one to the game can make things even more interesting. NWC did things the other way around.
They made one faction out of two in Heroes IV. It was a much criticised decision, but adding one... I think people would be very happy and would applaud that, especially when there is enough lore to make it impactful and interesting without taking anything away from the rest of the game.
I am from a region where wolves and werewolves are part of our lore since time immemorial.
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Heroes of Might and Magic; They aren't only games, they are passions. And feelings. Laura Jackson is the most beautiful woman who has ever existed!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSBTC1HHN-E
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted June 23, 2014 12:28 PM |
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Maurice said:
Secondly, since you had to choose your higher level creature dwellings, you had a fair chance that when you captured an enemy town, you ended up with creature dwellings that didn't fit your strategy. With no way to tear them down, the usefulness of such a city might be reduced as a result.
I know this is was posted quite a while ago, but I would still like to add my two cents. First of all I like the alternative creatures much better than the alternative upgrades. This because the alternative upgrades are too similar and often share the same role (as someone mentioned earlier in this thread), while alternative creatures really offer an alternative in strategy. Another merit of the alternative creatures was that it made the towns less dependend on one rare resource. Coming back to the quote: imo the fact that you could end up with the wrong dwelling build increased balance a bit. Now having sharing factions with one of your enemies is not a huge bonus per sé. In addition it promotes a mixed army, a to be honest, you had enough army space for at least one alternative creature.
If Heroes 7 keeps the tier system from Heroes 6 (or a modified version) I would like to seem some option for alternative creatures. For example:
- 2 lvl 1 (core)
- 2 lvl 2 out of 3 possibilities
- 2 lvl 3 out of 3 possibilities
- 1 lvl 4 (champion)
If Heroes 7 goes back to tiers, than I prefer the Heroes 4 system, but with an additional tier added. Of course upgrades are a must, those I really missed in Heroes 4 (although most creatures already felt like upgraded).
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 23, 2014 05:04 PM |
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At this point, I think that alternative BUILDS are a complete waste:
Look at HoMM 4: what would change in HoMM 4, if you could build ALL creature dwellings?
What comes immediately to mind is: YOU HAVE MORE OPTIONS!
To look at the why go no further than the economy. HoMM IV economy allows you ROUGHLY to hire your 2 level 1, 1 Level 2 and 1 Level 3 population with what the town produces (1000 gold per day). You decide on your level 2 and on your level 3 - but then you need a lot of money ANYWAY to build level 4 and make it work: you need at least one gold mine.
With that economy, if you can build EVERYTHING - what REALISTIC options do you have?
You'll start with a level 2, no matter what. There is a decision to make anyway, because obviously it's not clear what you should go for next: the second level 2 may be easier to build, but knowing HoMM 4, the level 3s are WAY more helpful than another level 2. So you may go for the level 3. At that point you have used up your regular town income, and when you increase that via a gold mine or another town, you STILL have some thinking to do:
a) Your army slots are limited;
b) How many Heroes do I want in my army
c) How long will the game last; can I increase troop quality of my main army...
So the answer here is clear:
From an analytical point of view what regulates your building is army size maximum and town economy. If we go to the regular HoMM with 7 army slots, heroes off, what happens, when you simply add more troop dwellings (not necessarily one alternative on each level; consider the tier system: what happens if you simply add one dwelling per tier to 4-4-2, ALL buildable? Answer: IT DEPENDS ON ECONOMY!
Your best troop quality comes with 1-4-2 - but that will cost serious money; money you don't have.
So the option to build a lot more than you can actually pay for makes for WAY more options than the way it is now OR with either or options. With alternatives, it's always a clear-cut decision. If you have free reign, you can't go for everything either, but you have more freedom to hang yourself, overstretching the budget.
It's also easier when you conquer a pre-built town.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted June 23, 2014 05:50 PM |
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Good point. You totally convinced me  
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