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| Thread: Did Feminists Lied/Over Exagerated Women's Victimhood? |  This thread is pages long: 1 10 20 ... 21 22 23 24 25 ... 30 31 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 09, 2014 03:41 AM |
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Quote:
TL DR - Our society hasnt reached "equality for all" status. Would things be better if it weren't white man's world ? I dont know, but as a white man I'd be lying if I were to say I'd gladly live in the alternative reality, especially since I understand human nature a little bit. Not contradicting things IMO
It wasn't too long to read and I get what you mean but if I remember correctly, you were originally from the Balkans, you wouldn't be considered "the white man" in an all Anglo-Saxon dinner party in Wall Street, just food for thought 
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted August 09, 2014 11:25 AM |
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artu said:
It wasn't too long to read and I get what you mean but if I remember correctly, you were originally from the Balkans, you wouldn't be considered "the white man" in an all Anglo-Saxon dinner party in Wall Street, just food for thought
LOL man, it's not like I'm on some superiority complex tardness, I see all as my equals. Your statement is 100% true in the universal truth department, however the society we live in gives more weight to the so called perceived truth than to the actual one if you catch my drift 
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2014 09:32 AM |
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@smithey
Sorry for the delay. My computer was down yesterday but I'm back now
1. Smithey's reaction to Pay Gap
You know the society white men created for white men values women's lives over their's. The clearest example is titanic. "Save the WOMEN and children first!!!"
These white men are taught to value a woman's lives over a fellow white man. Chivalry? Whenever a woman hits a man, it's ok. If that man dares to defend himself from the woman hitting him, white knights will jump in and beat him up for it regardless of whose fault it was.
These same white males also made crimes easier to pay for women. What I mean by this is that white men made women's prison sentence 40% lesser than men.
These same white men also gave the rights to vote to most white males through the draft while they gave it to women when they asked for it.
The list just goes on and on and on. My point is, just because society is made by white men doesn't mean they made it easy for themselves.
And by the way, I'm not white.
And to say that had women made society, it would've catered to women is purely speculation. First of all, society would evolve differently. How I see it, our society is built based on men going out and do the job while women stay in the house and do the support role.
You know, before the boom of the industrial revolution, feminism can't even be made possible. Yeah, I know you have Ancient Rome and Greece but what I mean by this is women competing men in the working industry. Human being's primary goal was survival throughout history. Hence, we made society as such to respond to the challenges of mother nature, needs of the people and what other people from other nations are doing.
I mean, don't you find it peculiar that every society, including the Aztecs, Incas, Mayans, Ethipians, Khmer and all other civilizations that were disconnected from the rest of the world are male-dominated?
None of these society are female-dominated.
I'm not promoting male supremacy of any sort. What I'm saying is humans in the past respond to how they best can survive the given situation. Human beings can't afford to say "this is my favorite job, hence this will be high paying. That job, we don't like, we'll make that a low paying job".
And apparently, you don't know how economics or supply and demand work. Yes, probably, one job is as important as the other but you're forgetting that building houses, making complex computer systems, etc is much harder than teaching or taking care of kids.
I'm not even gonna soften it up.
I would advise you to study economics. Study it so that you'll know why engineering, computer science, etc pays more than nursing, teaching, etc.
And to artu, if you're making a study about proving/disproving something, you can't just say "parenthood, work hours, etc". You have to list everything you considered. Everything. How do we know if the writer took negotiation into consideration or the other factors I presented? You have to list EVERYTHING. I mean, you're trying to prove something right?
2. Glass Ceiling
Your argument and evidence is saying that there are fewer women in top positions but fails to answer why. Is it because of oppression or choice? You know equal opportunity does not mean equal results.
And in China, the reason why female babies get the axe is because their society is made such that men are the breadwinners. Now I don't agree with this type of society but to say women is the only gender oppressed in China is an incorrect speculation. Both genders are oppressed, just in different ways. Men are preferred but suppose to work hard while women don't need to do much but are not preferred.
3. Everything about Rape
No, I don't fear getting raped when walking on the streets at 2am.
I fear getting robbed/murdered. Yes, you can get murdered by a random gangster. You know, around 80% murder victims are men but you probably won't count this because it's male on male violence (I'll discuss that later).
If you ask me, I'd rather get raped than get murdered. Now I'm not belittling rape but it's the lesser of two evils, you know what I mean?
And ok, I understand that you don't want to count prison inmates as rape victims as long as that's your reason and not removing a part of the statistic just because it doesn't serve your cause.
Also, I just want to throw this out.
Male Rape in America said:
A recent analysis of BJS data, for example, turned up that 46 percent of male victims reported a female perpetrator.
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_rape_in_america_a_new_study_reveals_that_men_are_sexually_assaulted.html
Ok, I was misinformed that men suffered more rape than women but I was misinformed that it was a male on male violence as well.
4. Man's Shelter and Domestic Violence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt5BRcsOyy0
Yeah I know it's long. So I'll give you the summary. Karen Straughan talks about Earl Silverman who attempted to open a man's shelter and asked funding from the federal government but they (who are also feminists by the way) told him "Giving service to men was not their mandate". So, he opened the man's shelter using donations and his own money. He made observations about this and tried to make it public but feminists tried to block him at every attempt. To make the long story short, Silverman was too in debt to operate the man's shelter and he committed suicide.
I'm not gonna give you everything and I could be exaggerating, or maybe not but that's because I want you to listen to the video. Karen said it powerfully and if you're a reasonable man, this would give you an idea about why a lot of people hates feminism. Yeah I know there are extremists in every organization but feminist extremists are the ones in power. They are powerful, influential and man-hating.
Also, google Erin Pizzey. She's the founder of woman's shelter. She attempted to open a man's shelter. She said men can be victims of domestic violence too but then received death threats from radical feminists protesting in front of her house saying "All Men are Batterers, All Men are Rapists". They even shoot her dog. The situation got out of hand so Erin was exiled to another country.
5. Virginity and Sex
LoL. I’m in my mid 20’s. The thing is, your argument about “Sex is Fun” is purely YOUR opinion. The keyword there is “Your”. What if the man doesn’t want to have a girlfriend? What if the man can’t have a girlfriend? He’d be pressured to get one because society would call him gay or a loser. I could say “Playing someone to have Sex with you takes a Lot of Work” and it would be as valid as your argument.
You know, when I was in highschool, I courted someone only because everyone in my circle of friends has a girlfriend so I had to have one. End result was, it was a bad experience. It was so bad that I broke up with her and told myself “that’s my first and last sexual relationship.. ever!”. I’m a MGTOW and I need long hours with my hobbies. Apparently, you need a lot of time to maintain a sexual relationship. You can’t spend enough time doing what you really want. Anyone who didn’t know me in highschool thinks I’m gay or a loser for not having a girlfriend.
How do I cure my sexual frenzy you ask? Masturbation! It’s quick, easy and you don’t need to grow a relationship.
Also, I just like to add that society teaching women to not chase men while men chase women, wouldn’t that give power to the women? I mean, there are men who’s had trouble getting a girlfriend. I’ve seen a lot of male feminists, I’m not saying you are one but there are male feminists who only became a feminist because it’s the easiest road to a woman’s approval. Women can use their sexuality to manipulate a man.
6. Privileges Women have Men Don't and Vice Versa
LoL. You think being a man is more privileged?
The only privilege I can think of men has over women is that men are less likely to get raped and they're bigger when it comes to domestic violence. But then society and feminists has already equalized us in that regard and it's to a point where men are already at the disadvantage. The rest, such as the pay gap and glass ceiling hasn't been proven that it was because of discrimination.
Privilege a woman has over a man, I can list many things:
1. If a woman hits a man in public, she's gonna expect he won't hit her back. Otherwise, white knights are gonna jump in to her aid.
2. If a woman starts a fight, abuses a man, a man is not supposed to fight back even if the slaps and punches are enough to hurt him. Otherwise, authorities will arrest him for being bigger.
3. I am not allowed to joke about any issues regarding women but women can freely joke about a man's penis being cut and everyone just laughs about it.
4. False rape accusations. Which I'll discuss later when I address artu.
There are so many more I can list but I'll just go with the top 4 for now.
And by the way, regarding the law, a man only has one right over a man and that is women are not allowed to be topless in public while a woman has multiple over a man. I presented a lot when I was debating with Steyn but we established 4 - 6 were valid.
7. How Men and Women got their rights to vote
Obviously, I'm not saying women oppressed men. I'm saying both genders were oppressed and men had it worst.
And yes, you're right. People who were born in the modern days don't need to earn their rights to vote with blood but I'm just bringing that up in the same fashion that feminists are bringing how they were oppressed all throughout history even though they're not oppressed now. Sounds reasonable, right?
Also, you can't compare blacks with women. Women generally had an easy life, at least in America, back then. Yes, some were not allowed to vote in some states but they were taken care of by their men the best way they know how. Again, I'm saying generally. Black people had to go through slavery. To say what women has gone through is comparable to blacks is like saying spoiled rich kids' experience is comparable to the hungry kids in Africa.
8. Men are Disadvantaged in Family Courts
I'm glad we're both on the same page with this.
9. Rape, Rape and More Rape
One Question: if people who get raped doesn't report that they got rape, how would the authorities know about it?
I'm not belittling rape but if people won't report it, it's on them. Men too get raped but sometimes, they don't report it because they're afraid society will call them a pussy for not enjoying it (or something like that).
10. Murder
Yes, and that is why your "white men for white men" back in argument 1 is a fallacy.
Just because white men built society doesn't mean they built it for themselves. If it were so, men wouldn’t victimize other men because oh, they’re men and we men should stick together. The statistics would have reported that men to women violence is the dominant statistic.
By the way, if you look at it on a perpetrator standpoint, yes, I agree, men are the aggressors but if you look at it from a victim standpoint, men are likely to fall victims. We men can’t control how other men think. I don’t get why you’re canceling out the male victims just because men are the perpetrators. You’re being sexist. Bottomline is, more men experience murder and we should focus more on men than women when it comes to direct physical violence.
By the way, the report I got was that 25% of domestic violence victims are male. I don't know if it was related to sex though.
11. A few things to know about me:
- I’ve explained my stand. If you read the last 20 pages of this thread, you can see that.
- I don’t hate women, I have female friends. As someone who has knowledge about history, I don’t see how women are more oppressed than men. All I see from feminists is exaggeration.
- Just because I’m anti feminist doesn’t mean I hate women. I’m not MRA since I don’t have time with activism but there are a lot of female MRAs. Some of them are anti feminist. You can’t call them woman-haters now would you?
- Feminists like say… Dagoth Gares refuses to listen to theAmazingAtheist. I listen to any feminist I come in contact with and then decide whether his/her points are valid or invalid only after I listen to him/her. Not very close-minded now, is it? The guy people like artu has been praising is actually the close-minded one.
@artu
1. see my reply to smithy
2. Did you even read the rest of my post? It’s been debunked by some posters but I ‘ve been giving my ideas on their post. You’re just ignoring my stronger argument my friend and that makes you bias.
3. So you’re saying people who get raped in prison are not counted because they have criminal behavior. Ok, I understand.
4. It is a privilege because men need to do so much while women need to do so little.
I know of two youtubers who’s been studying criminology.
One is MrRepzion. I can’t find the video anymore but let me tell you his story. He had an abusive girlfriend and wants to get back with him. He doesn’t want to. It reached a point wherein the girl was filing false rape accusations to him. She didn’t even need proof. Repzion implied that he got scared because knows how much power a woman has when it comes to rape accusations. To make the long story short, they’ve had conversations of the woman harassing him through his email and so he presented it and showed it in court and Repzion won.
My point is, a woman has too much power in rape accusations. She needs little to no proof while a man needs to do much to clear his name. Apparently, men are guilty until proven innocent.
Another youtuber was a woman who worked with the cops. She was harassed by this prank caller and she clearly said “I’m gonna report you to the cops for false rape accusations. It doesn’t matter if I don’t have proof, I’m gonna ruin your life”. It’s the prank caller filming it by the way.
I would love to give the link but you guys would probably try to bring him down knowing how vicious some feminists could be. The Erin Pizzey, Earl Silverman and Adria Richards fiasco are three of the many examples that proved that.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 10, 2014 11:08 AM |
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JeremiahEmo said:
I mean, don't you find it peculiar that every society, including the Aztecs, Incas, Mayans, Ethipians, Khmer and all other civilizations that were disconnected from the rest of the world are male-dominated?
None of these society are female-dominated.
Exactly the problem: we've been living too long in a military dictatorship where the GUARDS are making the calls. Somewhere along the line there has been a coup - or maybe it was an evolutionary thing: instead of following orders or concentrating on doing their job and don't break too much while being at it, the security/guards part took over and suddenly ordered everyone around, resulting in testosterone dominated world of eternal competition, war, death, slavery, you name it, instead of mutually beneficial cooperation.
Just as everyone has not a good feeling living in a society where the military makes the calls - you wouldn't want that, right?
You should be able to see the parallels.
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2014 11:55 AM |
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and as I said, it's how human beings respond to the demands of everything around them.
Why is it the same thing in every society?
The Middle East was where it all began. Or at least, recorded history.
Europe? The same thing with the Romans, Greek Cities and the Celts.
In the very far east, same thing and so was the Ghana/Malinese/Songhai empires in Africa.
The Americas which are disconnected from the rest of world, same thing.
One reason I can think of is scarcity of resources. Perhaps it's also good that way because nations tend to be more competitive with that. I can't name a single progressive civilization that hasn't had any relations to military and hasn't left the stone age.
Do you think it would have been possible for human beings to evolve without the might of military? Yes, probably. But history says otherwise.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 10, 2014 12:52 PM |
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You miss the problem. The problem isn't the military - it's military dominating society instead being an instrument wielded by reasonable people.
So the problem ISN'T that males overtook guarding/security function; the problem is, they abused the power that comes with that to dominate the whole society. And HOW that is done you can still see, when a society is to give up rights because of some "threat" the military (and those who profit from it) sell the rest as lurking somewhere.
Don't you see how that works? Now it's terrorists lurking everywhere; 50 years ago it were the Commies wanting to destroy the American Way of Life (just look at the hysteria in the 50s and the movies that were created).
It's natural: if you get a security/guard job, your interest lies in BEING IMPORTANT. And the more dangerous things appear to be, the more important you are, up to a point when you start giving the orders, the orders necessary to ensure everyone's safety - or keeping the females and the children safe.
That's what has been happening. And that's what has been wrong.
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2014 01:58 PM |
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yeah. I guess you're right. We can both agree on that.
On a separate but related topic, (I just thought of this while playing Civilization) before the industrial revolution, military is not the only thing men played a huge role on. A lot of jobs back in the days require things men are good at such as extensive physical labor and heavy analytical thinking. A lot of you might argue about the latter but this brings us back to men often choose engineering/computer science while women often choose teaching/nursing.
You know, this makes me wonder what would happen if feminism showed up before the industrial revolution.
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kookastar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted August 10, 2014 02:25 PM |
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Quote:
and heavy analytical thinking.
HA!!!
*not biting
in answer to the threads question - no! women fought for rights like any suppressed minority and we are still discriminated against in many fields today. The way the first female Prime Minister of Australia was treated was terrible (not saying she got there the most honourable way but when it is ok to name a meal on the menu at a restaurant "red box" referring to her map of tassie then that is just too far!)
Anyway, it is only a couple of generations ago where we didn't have the right to vote, or equal pay and job security. We shouldn't be too quick to let the struggles of those before us be trodden on as overkill. My mum could rant for hours on this subject!
Having said all that, to be honest, having been fortunate enough to live in a society where we have "equal rights" to men, I wish I could just stay home and look after my kid all day! And that seem the way it is meant to be. Really. Unfortunately though, the economy is geared to 2 income families which makes living on one income, not as easy.
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uhuh
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted August 10, 2014 02:32 PM |
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Now let's watch another woman's experiences and opinions in a discussion on the oppression of women get ridiculed and dismissed by a delusionary pro-patriarchal male who thinks he's got the world figured out.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 10, 2014 02:39 PM |
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kookastar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted August 10, 2014 02:41 PM |
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Adrius said:
Now let's watch another woman's experiences and opinions in a discussion on the oppression of women get ridiculed and dismissed by a delusionary pro-patriarchal male who thinks he's got the world figured out.
mwhahahahaha
bring it!
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uhuh
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2014 03:11 PM |
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Adrius said:
Now let's watch another woman's experiences and opinions in a discussion on the oppression of women
Karen Straughan
I can name a lot more if you want me to.
@kookastar
The problem with you is that you only quoted one part of my post and ignored my reasoning behind it.
Feminist bias is once again shown when Adrius agreed with you.
- I agree with equal pay but a law existed against that since 1963.
- While I agree both genders should be allowed to vote (well, citizens who contribute to society actually), men in general needed a lot more to earn their rights to vote than women.
- everyone didn't have job security back then.
And we've already been discussing about this over and over again. I don't want to repeat myself so if you want to know more, kindly read the previous page or my long post in this page.
@JollyJoker
What I mean about feminism existing in the past is men and women already given equal rights AND responsibility. That means all work, physical or anything else. I would have loved to see that.
That would mean women dying in wars and being drafted as well (even though I don't agree with this. But hey, it's equal for everyone, right?)
And I took most notice on the Peasant's Revolt. Yes, there has been Boudiccas, Joan of Arcs or Trung Sisters in the past but the vast majority of women just aren't either physically capable or does not want to do heavy labor. A lot of women wants to do support role or jobs that doesn't need much physical effort. And that's what composed most of the work pre-Industrial era.
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted August 10, 2014 04:00 PM |
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Edited by meroe at 16:03, 10 Aug 2014.
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Karen Straughan is a well known blogger (which does not make her an expert). She also tends to draw her 'experiences' of male oppression from the Victorian Era - when suffragettes were fighting tooth and nail for the most rudimentary of rights. When Straughan is called out regarding more modern era feminism and rights, she falls flat on her face and unfortunately for her, misappropriates information or glosses over it - very much like what JEmo does here. Like Straughan he constantly harks on about feminism hatred, yet at the same time does nothing to convince us of 'male suffering' because on the rare occasions he does, he torn down by the reality presented by others. Any sane and well adjusted person would take a step back and re-evaluate their thinking, especially when presented with proof. But people like Straughan and JEmo cannot do this, because they have a drive/hatred of something that they cannot quite put their fingers on.
JEmo can only constantly hark back to his warped views of perceived historical infringement of male rights. That is just pure and simple. He simply cannot accept information that proves contrary to his hard believed and misled views. He simply cannot.
Erin Pizzey is a British woman who started up refuges in England for battered wives, who at the time had no help in escaping violence. Thanks to her and the feminist movement, those times have changed. Now there is a wealth of help out there for battered spouses (spouses = male and female). That particular incident happened because of radical man-hating harpies. And, those are the types of people who have put back the fight for equality. Just like radical Islamists. Anything radical is driven by hatred, fear and a desire to control. But again people like JEmo and Straughan will hang onto those minority incidents and try to convince us all that those minorities represent the entire movement. Only the sublimely ignorant and dumb fall for those tactics.
JEmo you need help dear. You need to book an appointment with psychiatrist and hash out what has disturbed you so. Anyone with such skewed and warped views on the world, is not going to have an easy time fitting it. If you judge your reception here at this forum and the others you have visited, the truth is staring you in the face. You are pretty much alone mostly in your views, because your views are outdated, sexist, warped and untrue.
And until we start hearing a little more understanding from you, because people have wasted a significant amount of time explaining the realities to you, we are just going to continue to prove you wrong and eventually ridicule everything you say.
So the next time someone takes a few minutes out of their day to explain to you ..... either with statistics or life experiences or historical/political facts. Listen and absorb. If after that you continue to reply with the same broken record, we will ridicule you for being a troll and treat you total disdain.
So I have some scrap of hope that you might actually educate yourself rather than believe in myths and hearsay. Unfortunately, 90% me is waiting for you fail.
When I have more time, I will return and I will answer your long post point for point. And I do not expect you will like my answers.
Oh and Adrius, yes I am again expecting more of the same treatment as before. Quite a shocker really, certainly opened my eyes and changed my attitude regarding a few posters.
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2014 05:37 PM |
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and the discussion turns into an emotional outburst, yet again.
Quite expected from feminists.
I have to admit, there has been some logical feminists in this forum. I've met 2 if JollyJoker considers himself a feminist. 3 total in all conversations I have with feminists.
And Meroe, since when did I say something that's not analytical speculation wherein I didn't support it with proof? And can you give me examples of Karen giving out misinformation?
And lastly, I would advise you not to speak for everyone. You're insulting people's intelligence by telling them they can't decide whether to agree with me or not.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 10, 2014 05:56 PM |
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What outburst? It's just light-hearted scorn and you deserve it on all levels. Is there no limit to your delusional state Jemo, do you seriously believe even one person here considers your so-called counter-arguments strong? You lack the capacity to understand when you are refuted, there is no bias, there is no outburst, there is only your failure of comprehension. Nobody has to be a feminist to call your crap for what it is. Your persistency makes it impossible to put this in a more polite manner: YOU CAN NOT MANAGE TO THINK PROPERLY.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted August 10, 2014 06:22 PM |
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Too damn typical to discredit the opposition for being emotional as well. You're just some hobby-level misogynist who discredits the women's struggle in your free time, then go back to living your carefree life. Of course you can remain ****ing calm, it's not your reality you're arguing. If you seriously want to discuss oppression then expect emotions when you talk bull****.
Your lack of empathy and basic common sense is absolutely staggering. Go back to your MRA board in some backwater hole of the internet and circlejerk your fear of women there instead, this forum is clearly not your place.
Tiresome crap.
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted August 10, 2014 07:24 PM |
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@JeremiahEmo
Quote:
1. Smithey's reaction to Pay Gap
You know the society white men created for white men values women's lives over their's. The clearest example is titanic. "Save the WOMEN and children first!!!"
These white men are taught to value a woman's lives over a fellow white man. Chivalry? Whenever a woman hits a man, it's ok. If that man dares to defend himself from the woman hitting him, white knights will jump in and beat him up for it regardless of whose fault it was.
These same white males also made crimes easier to pay for women. What I mean by this is that white men made women's prison sentence 40% lesser than men.
These same white men also gave the rights to vote to most white males through the draft while they gave it to women when they asked for it
The list just goes on and on and on. My point is, just because society is made by white men doesn't mean they made it easy for themselves.
And by the way, I'm not white.
A. Titanic - There is no way in hell children and women could possibly survive on their own, Men on the other hand are strong and capable, Men must save the weak ones first. That's our state of mind, in its basis it is not suggesting equality if you have missed the us strong, them weak part. Norm was created by men for men, not women nor children and it glorifies us men as superiors. I have countless times stood up for the "weaker" ones (minorities, bullied ones, women) and every time it made me feel good, bottom line is - I have the power to stand up for the weak ones, the norm glorifies me, the white man.
B. - Girls smacks you, you can call the cops and press charges.
- Mutual punching wont result in you being charged with the assault (but instead both of you or none)
- 7 yr old kid kicked me in the leg, I also once got punched in the face by a 5'7 drunk chick, my head got tilted back, I was like wtf, there was no bruise in the morning, If I (an average 6'2 guy) were to kick the kid back or to punch the girl, it would result in a broken eye socket/cheek/jaw/nose. Its called an excessive use of force, we're just much stronger, it's biology.
C. It's much easier for us, coz we have the power - example:
1. Guy smacking his gf around, average girl might be afraid to say smth coz she too might get smacked (weaker), I can say smth coz I have that power
2. White dude bullying a minority, other minority maybe wont say anything out of fear he will get bullied as well, however white dude can step in without much trouble should he choose to do so.
You say you're not white, so what are you and where do you live ?
Have you travelled a little bit ?
Can you honestly as a non-white man say that you're feeling as if the world you're living in is equal ? As a minority you're really not feeling as if this is a white man's world ? Coz if that's so, I gotta know where you live bro
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And to say that had women made society, it would've catered to women is purely speculation. First of all, society would evolve differently. How I see it, our society is built based on men going out and do the job while women stay in the house and do the support role.
You know, before the boom of the industrial revolution, feminism can't even be made possible. Yeah, I know you have Ancient Rome and Greece but what I mean by this is women competing men in the working industry. Human being's primary goal was survival throughout history. Hence, we made society as such to respond to the challenges of mother nature, needs of the people and what other people from other nations are doing.
I mean, don't you find it peculiar that every society, including the Aztecs, Incas, Mayans, Ethipians, Khmer and all other civilizations that were disconnected from the rest of the world are male-dominated?
None of these society are female-dominated.
Obviously its a pure speculation, that is why I said, "I have no idea whether it would be better or worse if it were created by women/monorities".
All societies were male dominated coz males are physically stronger.
Strong ones do as they please, coz they have the power to do so.
You think strong ones were sacrificed to gods in S. America ?
You think burned "witches" were the strong ones in that society ?
That's how it works in the animal world too, btw amongst some species females are bigger/stronger, in those cases, males are the bit*hes 
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I'm not promoting male supremacy of any sort. What I'm saying is humans in the past respond to how they best can survive the given situation. Human beings can't afford to say "this is my favorite job, hence this will be high paying. That job, we don't like, we'll make that a low paying job".
And apparently, you don't know how economics or supply and demand work. Yes, probably, one job is as important as the other but you're forgetting that building houses, making complex computer systems, etc is much harder than teaching or taking care of kids.
I'm not even gonna soften it up.
I would advise you to study economics. Study it so that you'll know why engineering, computer science, etc pays more than nursing, teaching, etc.
Between the two of us, one of us has a degree in economics, and I have no idea what your education level is. 
And if you wanna talk about harder and more important, bank investor (who doesnt work all that hard) makes much more money than a doctor working 30 hrs shifts and saving lives, interesting concept.
Also the guy building the house aka doing the hardest work, gets paid less than everybody else and is in most cases a foreigner aka the minority
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2. Glass Ceiling
Your argument and evidence is saying that there are fewer women in top positions but fails to answer why. Is it because of oppression or choice? You know equal opportunity does not mean equal results.
I could answer that, but I'll simply tell you too look at the top 500 CEO's, and count the minorities among them, that will even take the female aspect out of the picture as you will have male VS white male.... 5 blacks, 6 latinos, 450 whites lol... equal opportunity indeed
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And in China, the reason why female babies get the axe is because their society is made such that men are the breadwinners. Now I don't agree with this type of society but to say women is the only gender oppressed in China is an incorrect speculation. Both genders are oppressed, just in different ways. Men are preferred but suppose to work hard while women don't need to do much but are not preferred.
To quote you
If you ask me, I'd rather work hard than get murdered as a baby. Now I'm not belittling hard work but it's the lesser of two evils, you know what I mean?
To quote the truth
Are you familiar with Chinese culture ?
Most Chinese women work on farms, crazy hard work.
Best paid jobs, in urban areas that also aren't considered hard physical work are held by Chinese men.
So, if women aren't preferred nor are getting paid more/holding better jobs, how is it that you think both genders are equally oppressed in China ? Every time I read one of your responses your logic or better yet lack of it, blows my mind
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3. Everything about Rape
No, I don't fear getting raped when walking on the streets at 2am.
I fear getting robbed/murdered. Yes, you can get murdered by a random gangster. You know, around 80% murder victims are men but you probably won't count this because it's male on male violence (I'll discuss that later).
If you ask me, I'd rather get raped than get murdered. Now I'm not belittling rape but it's the lesser of two evils, you know what I mean?
Real men dont kill the weak ones (women and children), that's our state of mind, that's why killing another man is ok.
The point is, there is no equality, we wont even kill women/children coz it would make us lesser men, men are the strong one, men commit most of violent crimes.
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And ok, I understand that you don't want to count prison inmates as rape victims as long as that's your reason and not removing a part of the statistic just because it doesn't serve your cause.
Inmates are by default not a part of the statistics as they have been removed from the society, they are a specific group that will always differ from the average population (more rapes, more drugs, more murders, less education, %-wise), they cant represent anything nor be compared to anything.
My cause ? which is what ? Saying that the society we live in isn't treating minorities/women as equals ? Bro, thats common sense of a men who is aware of the world he's living in, not a cause.
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Also, I just want to throw this out.
Male Rape in America said:
A recent analysis of BJS data, for example, turned up that 46 percent of male victims reported a female perpetrator.
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_rape_in_america_a_new_study_reveals_that_men_are_sexually_assaulted.html
Ok, I was misinformed that men suffered more rape than women but I was misinformed that it was a male on male violence as well.
It's really hard to know how many of those 46% were actually male (children), but yeah, I never said a guy can't be raped, I even said its messed up it gets ignored even when eraction is established via drugs.
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4. Man's Shelter and Domestic Violence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt5BRcsOyy0
Yeah I know it's long. So I'll give you the summary. Karen Straughan talks about Earl Silverman who attempted to open a man's shelter and asked funding from the federal government but they (who are also feminists by the way) told him "Giving service to men was not their mandate". So, he opened the man's shelter using donations and his own money. He made observations about this and tried to make it public but feminists tried to block him at every attempt. To make the long story short, Silverman was too in debt to operate the man's shelter and he committed suicide.
I'm not gonna give you everything and I could be exaggerating, or maybe not but that's because I want you to listen to the video. Karen said it powerfully and if you're a reasonable man, this would give you an idea about why a lot of people hates feminism. Yeah I know there are extremists in every organization but feminist extremists are the ones in power. They are powerful, influential and man-hating.
Bro, its 1 case, obviously radicals try to stop a lot of positive things as they're not sitting well with their agenda, but there are selters for men in USA.
I am far from being a fan of feminists but disliking feminists is one thing, claiming we're living in an equal society is another thing.
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Also, google Erin Pizzey. She's the founder of woman's shelter. She attempted to open a man's shelter. She said men can be victims of domestic violence too but then received death threats from radical feminists protesting in front of her house saying "All Men are Batterers, All Men are Rapists". They even shoot her dog. The situation got out of hand so Erin was exiled to another country.
Radicals suck, feminist radicals, religious radicals, radicals in general, nothing new...
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5. Virginity and Sex
LoL. I’m in my mid 20’s. The thing is, your argument about “Sex is Fun” is purely YOUR opinion. The keyword there is “Your”. What if the man doesn’t want to have a girlfriend? What if the man can’t have a girlfriend? He’d be pressured to get one because society would call him gay or a loser. I could say “Playing someone to have Sex with you takes a Lot of Work” and it would be as valid as your argument.
You know, when I was in highschool, I courted someone only because everyone in my circle of friends has a girlfriend so I had to have one. End result was, it was a bad experience. It was so bad that I broke up with her and told myself “that’s my first and last sexual relationship.. ever!”. I’m a MGTOW and I need long hours with my hobbies. Apparently, you need a lot of time to maintain a sexual relationship. You can’t spend enough time doing what you really want. Anyone who didn’t know me in highschool thinks I’m gay or a loser for not having a girlfriend.
How do I cure my sexual frenzy you ask? Masturbation! It’s quick, easy and you don’t need to grow a relationship.
Also, I just like to add that society teaching women to not chase men while men chase women, wouldn’t that give power to the women? I mean, there are men who’s had trouble getting a girlfriend. I’ve seen a lot of male feminists, I’m not saying you are one but there are male feminists who only became a feminist because it’s the easiest road to a woman’s approval. Women can use their sexuality to manipulate a man.
1. Asexuals (for the lack of chemicals within their brain), other people with disorders (that prevent them from enjoying it) find sex to be not fun.
"Sex is fun" is not my opinion but a biological fact, it's nature's little trick of ensuring we make babies.
You have decided its not worth the hassle or had a sad experience coz of psychological state of mind (BTW, friends with benefits/one night stands/hookups over the internet has no real hassle FYI) however since you do masturbate you do have the need hence if some hot girl is to open her legs for you, you too would have fun during sex coz it's all about the chemicals in your brain being released.
Friendly advice which you shouldnt dismiss lightly -
Your decision making was a rather miserable one, nobody blames you as you were a kid and its expected, we've all done it.
However do take into consideration that you were "forced" into smth you werent ready for nor wanted (relationship/sex) with possibly the wrong person. It was a mess and a traumatic experience (which is kinda easy to understand). You have made a decision regarding the rest of your life, based on one traumatic experience. You're no longer a kid, at this point you should be wise enough to understand that the decision made 10 years ago, after a trauma is not the one you should stick with for the rest of your life. You can convince yourself and others that you dont want the hassle and that you rather just masturbate and play video games but your path is one dictated by fear, the sooner you realize that, the sooner you can start daring more, not to prove anything to anyone else, but instead to give yourself as many chances as possible before you make up your mind on a certain way of life. After you have 10 traumatic experiences with sex/relationships, sure, decide its not for you, but one traumatic experience in HS and never AGAIN !! Dude, that's just messed up
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6. Privileges Women have Men Don't and Vice Versa
LoL. You think being a man is more privileged?
Yes, would you rather be a woman ?
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The only privilege I can think of men has over women is that men are less likely to get raped and they're bigger when it comes to domestic violence. But then society and feminists has already equalized us in that regard and it's to a point where men are already at the disadvantage. The rest, such as the pay gap and glass ceiling hasn't been proven that it was because of discrimination.
Phew, not even gonna start about our advantages....
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Privilege a woman has over a man, I can list many things:
1. If a woman hits a man in public, she's gonna expect he won't hit her back. Otherwise, white knights are gonna jump in to her aid.
False, most females avoid any physical confrontaton with males, coz they're intimidated by us (White knights mean nothing to her if a dude has already punched her and broke her nose)
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2. If a woman starts a fight, abuses a man, a man is not supposed to fight back even if the slaps and punches are enough to hurt him. Otherwise, authorities will arrest him for being bigger.
False, being bigger, he can grab her, preventing her from further harming him, and press charges. She will be arrested.
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3. I am not allowed to joke about any issues regarding women but women can freely joke about a man's penis being cut and everyone just laughs about it.
False, We make fun of their driving skills, of their hysteria, of pretty much anything you can think of, nobody said you cant do it.
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4. False rape accusations. Which I'll discuss later when I address artu.
Those are a bit*h however they harm women just as much as men, "the girl who yelled wolf"
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There are so many more I can list but I'll just go with the top 4 for now.
And by the way, regarding the law, a man only has one right over a man and that is women are not allowed to be topless in public while a woman has multiple over a man. I presented a lot when I was debating with Steyn but we established 4 - 6 were valid.
I agree they have more rights than us, but all those rights mean nothing really coz this is our world...
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7. How Men and Women got their rights to vote
Obviously, I'm not saying women oppressed men. I'm saying both genders were oppressed and men had it worst.
False, women were property of men throughout most of history, so it doesnt matter how oppressed the "poor" man was, his wife was always beneath him as is property, always more oppressed, by default.
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And yes, you're right. People who were born in the modern days don't need to earn their rights to vote with blood but I'm just bringing that up in the same fashion that feminists are bringing how they were oppressed all throughout history even though they're not oppressed now. Sounds reasonable, right?
Also, you can't compare blacks with women. Women generally had an easy life, at least in America, back then. Yes, some were not allowed to vote in some states but they were taken care of by their men the best way they know how. Again, I'm saying generally. Black people had to go through slavery. To say what women has gone through is comparable to blacks is like saying spoiled rich kids' experience is comparable to the hungry kids in Africa.
Dude, women couldnt vote, had literally 5 jobs available to them, were father's/husband's property to do with as he pleased, Im not saying they had it as bad as slaves, but they just weren't considered "citizens", I mean come on, what a hell are you talking about ? Are you not familiar with history at all ?
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8. Men are Disadvantaged in Family Courts
I'm glad we're both on the same page with this.
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9. Rape, Rape and More Rape
One Question: if people who get raped doesn't report that they got rape, how would the authorities know about it?
I'm not belittling rape but if people won't report it, it's on them. Men too get raped but sometimes, they don't report it because they're afraid society will call them a pussy for not enjoying it (or something like that).
Males/females not reporting rapes, is not on them but on the failed system which rapes the victims for the second time.
Girls/guys who do come forward, are in most cases literally advised against pressing charges.
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10. Murder
Yes, and that is why your "white men for white men" back in argument 1 is a fallacy.
Just because white men built society doesn't mean they built it for themselves. If it were so, men wouldn’t victimize other men because oh, they’re men and we men should stick together. The statistics would have reported that men to women violence is the dominant statistic.
By the way, if you look at it on a perpetrator standpoint, yes, I agree, men are the aggressors but if you look at it from a victim standpoint, men are likely to fall victims. We men can’t control how other men think. I don’t get why you’re canceling out the male victims just because men are the perpetrators. You’re being sexist. Bottomline is, more men experience murder and we should focus more on men than women when it comes to direct physical violence.
White men didnt build a society for men, as in a society which is based on brotherhood, but instead a society in which they will always flourish, society in which white male will have the most power, it's not like they made the society in that manner in order to oppress minorities and females but instead they made it in that way coz minorities/females were never considered as equals, they were never a part of the equation at all.
Murder and violence is a byproduct of human nature, we kill other men coz we're vicious, however the best way to show you why the society is made by white males is to just point you in the direction of prisons, where majority of inmates are minorities.
Laws as legislated by white rich males state - robbery will get you 20 years (done by a minority in most cases, robbed 2000$ in best case scenario)
White rich dude robs 500mil$ destroying lives of thousands of people, he does it via corporation and files for bankruptcy, and he didnt even break the law
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By the way, the report I got was that 25% of domestic violence victims are male. I don't know if it was related to sex though.
Its not..
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11. A few things to know about me:
- I’ve explained my stand. If you read the last 20 pages of this thread, you can see that.
- I don’t hate women, I have female friends.
You have offended a whole bunch of females who are far from being feminists on hc, so I dont know a thing about your interaction with females in private life but it looks like you have issue with females
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As someone who has knowledge about history, I don’t see how women are more oppressed than men. All I see from feminists is exaggeration.
While I dont even bother with what feminists have to say, I take your history knowledge in a very limited manner as some of the things you claim sound ignorant to me..
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- Just because I’m anti feminist doesn’t mean I hate women. I’m not MRA since I don’t have time with activism but there are a lot of female MRAs. Some of them are anti feminist. You can’t call them woman-haters now would you?
I wasn't arguing pro feminism, I just claimed you're delusional in thinking women have it better than us, make that extremely delusional.
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- Feminists like say… Dagoth Gares refuses to listen to theAmazingAtheist. I listen to any feminist I come in contact with and then decide whether his/her points are valid or invalid only after I listen to him/her. Not very close-minded now, is it? The guy people like artu has been praising is actually the close-minded one.
I dont know what he listens or how he deduces things, but from what I see, you have your mind set on a certain idea, and have a tough time giving other ideas a chance...
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted August 10, 2014 07:36 PM |
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You lack the capacity to understand when you are refuted,
Oh god!! It's Azzy! <3
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted August 10, 2014 09:32 PM |
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Edited by meroe at 21:36, 10 Aug 2014.
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Hahaha. Trying the emotional cop out are you Sly but not effective anymore. Didn't anyone tell you that the age old male oppressor attitude to any woman comments they don't like, doesn't wash anymore. Awww did my little post upset you. Sounds to me like it caused you a moment of upset. Be prepared, there are lot more of those coming.
And I can assure you JEmo that there is nothing about you that could ever raise my heartbeat or blood pressure. Nothing. I am beginning to enjoy myself, and as the CoC and mods have shown, I have been far too polite too.
Your reaction was exactly what I expect from a puerile, androcentric, oppressionist such as yourself.
And sweetie, if you cannot understand that JJ has been mocking you for quite some time, then I am sorry for you.
And I do not need to speak for everyone, see Artu and Adrius' posts underneath yours. Literally everyone who has replied to your posts, apart from Orzie and Stevie, who have shown themselves to be less than coherent in this subject - everyone else has made it blindingly obvious they do not agree with you. And they have all taken the time to show and explain to you why you are wrong. They have provided
you with statistics, political proofs etc etc. Yet like the
dedicated troll/misogynist you are, you have just switched off because you cannot abide the fact you are wrong. I am not insulting any other posters intelligence in this thread JEmo's except your own 'perceived' intelligence on the matter.
Re: Karen Straughan. She is a favorite of MRM and publications because she is anti-feminist. So her views only relate to your's. She is by no means a balanced argument at all. In fact, she is reviled by many for her inability to state her anti-feminist ideologies in todays climate.
http://theflounce.com/anti-feminist-karen-straughan-give-snow/
Straughan, as I have mentioned before is a blogger and a member of MRM and publications. Hence she is a favorite amongst those types of men. she is a woman who works besides men like Paul Elam, with whom she works as a contributing editor to his Voice for Men. The woman, although like most people also has some genuine and coherent things to say, also fails dramatically when - as she considers herself to be (and these are her words 'genderqueer, bisexual .... woman') - while at the same time being a member of a group that has published articles
suggesting that supporting the rights of same sex couples in the military to marry is "harmful to males in general". Oh really? How does that work? Or is it that "those damn lesbians getting married" means there are less females for you guys to screw?
Hmmmmm double standards and quite ludicrous. And quite honestly there isn't a cogent way to understand her mindset at all ???? Seriously??
Also A Voice for Men was founded by a well known misogynist, Paul Elam, whose own articles are like this :- 'Beat a violent snow month'. Yup that is a long running article in A Voice For Men publication.
You can read below a word for word example of some of the writings of Mr Elam, just to get the character of the man and the publication.
http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/05/19/she-deserved-the-ass-kicking-of-a-lifetime-paul-elam-of-a-voice-for-men-justifies-violence-against-women-in-a-disturbing-short-story/
'In Elam’s notorious post advocating “beat a violent snow month,” his excuse for justifying violence against women was that the “violent snowes” he was talking about had started the violence – even though the extreme retribution he suggested was justifiable went far beyond simple self-defense.'
Please note that the writer of this article is male. Also, in case some of you are flagging right now, (and I wouldn't blame you) Paul Elam has a little story and in it he tries to lay the blame for a man who violently punching his wife in the face and breaking her nose, as being her fault. So do take a little read, its enlightening, if somewhat disturbing.
Now, I need to let it be known here and now, that I have never read either types of these publications before. I find any form of gender hatred abhorrent. I am simply providing the exact type of 'insurmountable proof' that JEmo does. For everyone of his so-called male rights champions, I can produce someone who can refute this very easily. So if JEmo wishes to get into a tit for tat with me, bring it
on. It isn't however, the way I would prefer this to go.
What I would prefer is an adult discussion and the possiblity of people educating themselves - not with hearsay and propogandist hatred, but with truth. However, in regards to this happening with JEmo, I pretty much know that he will refuse all evidence placed before him that irrefutably debunks his misogynist preferences.
Oh well here goes the wall of text. (I don't know why I am doing this because JEmo is going to ignore it as it doesn't fit in with his pathological misogynistic needs.
Pay Gap
Hahahaha sorry, this is a joke right? White men value women's lives over their own? Okay (sarcastic tone). Proof dear please. "Save the women and children first". Umm that is your proof is it? Good try but not proof of your claims.
"Women and children first"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_children_first
and because you are highly unlikely to read it:-
"Women and children first" (or to a lesser extent, the Birkenhead Drill) is a historical code of conduct whereby the lives of women and children were to be saved first in a life-threatening situation (typically abandoning ship, when survival resources such as lifeboats were limited).
While the phrase first appeared in the 1860 novel Harrington: A Story of True Love, by William Douglas O'Connor, the first documented application of "women and children first" occurred during the 1852 evacuation of the Royal Navy troopship HMS Birkenhead. It is, however, most famously associated with the sinking of RMS Titanic in 1912.
As a code of conduct, "women and children first" has no basis in maritime law, and according to University of Greenwich disaster evacuation expert Professor Ed Galea, in modern-day evacuations people will usually "help the most vulnerable to leave the scene first. It's not necessarily women, but is likely to be the injured, elderly and young children." Furthermore, the results of a 2012 Uppsala University study suggest that the application of "women and children first" may have, in practice, been the exception rather than the rule.
Again you are showing your shocking lack of knowledge. You are a reactionist. You attempt to skew the reality to fit in with your own warped views.
Also please note Smithey's breakdown, which I have just read and am very thankful for, as it saves me a job. To be honest replying to JEmo's childish viewpoints are beginning to bore me.
I am going to cherry pick some of my favorite Emoisms, much like the way JEmo tries to counter our proofs.
"Now I am not belittling rape, but its the lesser of two evils, you know what I mean?" - JEmo. (*spoiler - sarcastic remark coming*) Okay JEmo well the next time someone attempts to mug you, or rob you or threaten you in anyway, just offer him your rump because being raped will be the lesser of the evils yes??
LOL oh dear. You say you are are in your early 20's, really? I doubt that. Anyway, considering that more woman are raped and more women are raped and murdered, is nothing to belittle. At least as a male, you have (fortunately) a slim chance of being murdered and an even smaller chance of ever getting raped. Women on the other hand have a much higher risk of rape and murder. That is a disadvantage for
women.
Oh and can you link that analysis by the BJS regarding 46 percent of male victims reported a female perpetrator. Because I have spent hours trying to find that and I can't. Not saying it doesn't exist, I cannot find it. Regardless, I have no idea what that quote is suppose to prove?? What that some guys have been sexually assaulted by 46% of women whilst the remaining 54% was by other men. What? What is this supposedly proving? Or are you just quoting the 'statistic' that Hanna Rosin quotes in her article in Slate (a publication she owns). That's proof is it?? *whispers* It isn't proof FYI.
And an FYI there isn't a person alive I would wish on being a female child in China. An ex of mine was American Chinese and my goodness being a Chinese female is horrible. You again show an appalling lack of knowledge regarding China and the views you have ended up forming because of it.
Now Hanna Rosin's article that you linked as some kind of proof regarding male rape in America was quite a read. Not because what she said was in any way correct, but because Hanna Rosin is another anti-feminist that you and your ilk love so much. Please read this in response to your link as proof of male rape by women please.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/books/review/the-end-of-men-by-hanna-rosin.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Now I am not belittling male rape here. Jeesh I know it happens. I know that guys are raped by other guys in prison, but like Artu said that is motivated by gang mindsets and the fact there are no women to rape. But Hanna isn't talking about that so much. She is talking about men being forced to perform.
Now I read this article all the way through. I do that you see, I am not about to ignore something. Now her article talks about men being forced to penetrate. What Hanna doesn't explain clearly enough, although, and its is only mentioned once in her article, when she is quoting victims statements. "He made me put my penis is his mouth". Okay so lets get some balance on this. Its not all female on male sexual abuse. Its also child sexual abuse, and unfortunately for you JEmo the majority of child sexual abuse is committed by men.
Firstly, what Hanna is describing here is called coercion. When you force someone to do something against their will, often with threats or violence, or sometimes just emotional abuse. Sexual coercion is something us females know only too well. Now if you agree with Hanna that a woman coercing a male to penetrate her is rape ..... and there is some merit to this thinking. Then you had better be prepared for the statistics of rapes of women to skyrocket. Because then all those husbands/boyfriends/partners/men who have coerced their wives/girlfriends etc etc into sex would have committed rape too. You see it goes both ways. Something that MRM cannot comprehend. "Oh come on love, its been two days". "Oh come on. If you loved me you would do it". "I promise I will be fast". "Just a quickie". "I need it to make me feel loved". "If you don't give it to me, I might as well go somewhere else then". Etc etc etc.
So in reality what Hanna is talking about is a sexual crime against both male and female. Yet she is trying to pass it off as a male only issue. Very dumb, very immoral and wrong.
Earl Silverman. Yes I read up about him too. Another 'champion' claimed by the Male Rights Movements. They even tried to blame his suicide on feminism. Yup, quite amazing. Now Silverman did a wonderful thing. He discovered (in Canada) that as a male at that time, he had literally nowhere to go (as in government funded refuge). Now what AVFM won't mention is that Silverman was treated the same way as women and other victims of domestic violence where treated in accordance to policy at the time. He was provided with $1,000, he had a counsellor - if you really want more information read this - http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2013/05/14/another-mens-rights-activist-suicide-exploited-by-ideologues/
There you go JEmo, more proof right. Read it, open your mind and allow yourself to realize that maybe there are two sides to the story, not just the female hating one. That was also written by a male. Hmmm who would have guessed huh.
Now as for being a member of Men Going Their Own Way. Fine, go. We honestly don't care. But the fact that you are a member of MGTOW just underlines your belief in male superiority. HOnestly there is very little help for you. Sad that despite history, despite everyday proof, despite valid experiences - you still get a group of disgrunted men who simply cannot function in a modern society and have to convince themselves it is all the fault of snowy women and those darned feminists who want to take over the world. Oh so sad.
But it also proves why you don't have a partner. I imagine the girl you went out with probably had a similar hideous experience with yourself, especially with an ideology such as yours. "Gosh why don't those filthy, snowy snows want me!!" "Couldn't be me, I am perfect. I am a man". "Women are the cause of me feeling worthless because if I had a woman, I could dominate her and feel better about myself".
Now lets get into men being discriminated in the family courts. Yes. I agree. There have been many instances of men being horribly discriminated in the family courts. This is outrageous. But luckily it is also something that is being addressed and addressed very honestly. However, if you wish to get into a tit for tat argument with me, by claiming that in the past 20 years those few cases where men have been treated horribly and discriminated against in any way is more relevant than the centuries of women not having any say in court proceedings or any chance whatsoever of retaining contact with her children after a divorce - then you are being infantile and you are burying your head the MRM sand again. You are choosing to ignore history and historical facts.
Now, while I can accept that some men have lost out significantly in the family courts and I sympathise wholeheartedly with their plight. Hell, before I emigrated to Australia with my family, I had joined the British 'Fathers for Justice' movement and even gone on a march in support of them. However, I am not blind to the glaring fact that women have still been the victims of injustices regarding divorce etc for longer. You cannot cherry pick incidents and blot out overwhelming historical and current proof in an attempt to further your own narrow mindset. Oh and btw, a man not getting his own way regarding child custody does not equate discrimination. If, just like if a woman is being ridiculous, they judges are not going to entertain it. Men are not discriminated against wholesale in the family courts. that is an untruth. However, women were discriminated wholesale in divorce and courts historically.
And I am going to end this here, its taking up too much of my time.
However, I will end with this. Be under no illusion that you have debunked anything in this thread. You haven't proved anything. Not a thing. All you have done is link a few MRM publications that spew skewed viewpoints and statistics. So you can stop believing that you have won any argument here. You haven't, not by a 1000 miles JEmo.
EDIT
I have noticed upon reading this back, that some of the words have been'snowed' out. So let me explain that those incidences refer to the insulting female dog name some people like to use when referring to women.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted August 11, 2014 04:21 PM |
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I'm only gonna reply to Smithey because apparently, the other feminists has gone down to name calling and personal attacks. Let's keep it civil guys.
Anyway..
1.a. Titanic
I understand that and I can see that it's reasonable.
However, I have two points to present.
One, titanic proved that women weren't as oppressed as feminists say they are. Yes, you're right, it's the strong helping the weak. Throughout history, men loved their women. There might be a few that were bad to their women but the general view of history was that men cherished women's lives over their own. That's the point I've been trying to make here. Of course, women weren't generally allowed to compete with men in the workfield in history generally, I won't deny that but to say that women had it bad all throughout history is exaggerating it. Men made it so because back in the days, we don't have the technology to ease they heavy physical labor most work needed. Men worked harder, more of men died in work and in the battlefield while having the benefits while women worked less harder in easier conditions. It's the gender roles.
Feminists has been demonizing men. They've ignored the good things men has done for women.
Two, what do you think about these famous feminist phrases?
"Women don't need a man",
"Women are strong and independent" and
"Anything a man can do, a woman can do better, with heels"
I will not yet say what's my stand on those phrases yet. I'm not saying it's negative but I'm not saying it's positive either. You'll know when you give me your answer.
1.b
actually, there has been cases wherein the man has been arrested when both the man and the woman fight. Not only that, the general view of society has always been, if a woman is abused, people jumps in to help her. If the man is abused, people will just pass by.
Yes, I understand that men are bigger but it does not give women an excuse to keep hitting men over and over again. Men are NOT robots.
1.c
Actually, in my experience, the guy smacking the girl around meant trouble for the guy. She talked to their network of friends and the guy was hated instantly. Even his friends, including myself thinks lowly of him. Society or the place that I'm living in at least frowns on men beating women. I can't say for the opposite though.
In a similar situation but different people, the guy gets abused by his girlfriend. He didn't want anyone to know about it because he's ashamed.
Now I'm not saying that vice versa of each situation does not exist. What I'm saying is it's snow for anyone who does not know how to handle the situation.
A lot of people tried to bully me in gradeschool and highschool but I always find a way to send bullies my message: "you don't want to mess with me" in my own way. There were two people who tried to bully me but as soon as I acted, they stopped.
Where do I live? I'm sorry, I won't disclose that information. I fear for my safety. No, I'm serious. I've angered a lot of feminists. The whole Adria Richards fiasco and feminists shooting Erin Pizzey's dog is proof enough.
I mean, what are the odds artu, Adrius or Meroe are radical feminists? No, just kidding. But I won't take that chance. 
I'm Asian by the way. I have very little native and white blood but it's very little, it does not show.
2.
I'm not very familiar with South America but in some societies, best or one of the best, which can be attributed to strong are sacrificed.
The Vikings for example sacrificed Swedish men, Swedish MEN. Their analogy was, you have to give the gods something good.
The Aztecs didn't care if you're strong or weak. If you're not an ally, you have been conquered, then you'd be sacrificed to the gods.
The Mayans, same with the Aztecs.
3.
Oh, so you're an economist. Interesting.
You do realize that physical labor is not always the hardest right?
Question is, will people want to be engineers/architects/comptuer programmers if it's a lower paying job?
How much wealth does these specific jobs contribute to society?
Supply and Demand. You're an economist, you should be able to answer that.
4.
There are fewer minorities because they are minorities. They are fewer in number duh.
You still haven't disprove that it's more about choice rather than discrimination.
Basically, none of our explanations are proven correct since there's no research about it.
Mine is it's because of choice (aka innocent until proven guilty). I also find this more logical.
Your's is it's because of oppression (aka guilty until proven innocent).
5. China
I'm sorry, I didn't phrase my sentence correctly.
It's men that are bringing in the money.
Yes, I admit, you're right about it being the lesser of two evils.
I have to admit, I don't know much about China and right now, I'm too lazy to research but if you can prove that there's a law prohibiting women from doing these high-paying jobs you mentioned then you win this part of the argument.
6. smithey said:
Real men dont kill the weak ones (women and children), that's our state of mind, that's why killing another man is ok.
point is, there is no equality
well, that's telling.
Basically, if women are disadvantaged, "it's oppression, get rid of it."
If men are disadvantaged, "there is no equality."
I'm not advocating violence on any human being, man or woman but women asked to be in the same level as men. Let them. We should give them all the benefits of being a man but we also must give them all the bad perks of being a man.
Children should be the only ones exempted from the violence.
I know some of you might quote your favorite part of this post but I'm always here to append the rest of it. Keep doing it, it's only gonna be good for my cause in the long run.
7. Your Cause
If you listened to Karen Straughan, the link I gave you, you'd know what I mean.
Feminists are known to manipulate data or exaggerate a woman's experience. They also tend to speak for all women even though not all women agree with them. Some feminists I debated with in the past lied to my face. She didn't know I was History literate.
I would really advise you to listen to her. It would be also good for you because you'd get into the minds of some MRAs.
8.
Actually, that's two. Earl Silverman and Erin Pizzey.
Yes, there are men's shelter in the US but how many of them are government-funded? That was Earl Silverman's case.
I'm actually ok with man's shelter not being government-funded but women's shelters are. That's one advantage women has over men in our society.
9.
If feminist radicals didn't have too much power, I wouldn't mind them.
10.
Man, I appreciate the advise you've given me but I've assessed myself and I'm better off alone. I'm currently enjoying what I do. You don't need to do something when it sacrifices what you currently love doing right? Sacrifice, yes because relationships need a lot of time and effort. I don't want to go through that effort.
Also, I understand where you're coming from, I really do. Sex is fun and women are oppressed in that regard. However, I still think one is not better than the other. The pressure of getting women can also be equally dangerous.
What if the man just can't get a woman? What if he's ugly?
I say men shouldn't be pressured to get a woman and women shouldn't be called snows when playing with multiple men. I haven't heard of a man saying a female player is a snow before. Mostly, I hear it from women.
11.
Smithey said:
Yes, would you rather be a woman ?
No. I'm proud of who I am. I'd sure love to get a woman's benefits in society though.
12.
- Women should avoid fighting men physically. They shouldn't abuse our white knighting society. However, there are a lot of cases wherein a woman punches a man and the man can't fight back because white knights will jump at him.
- not all men are twice bigger than any women. Even so, you're treating women like kids and men like adults. We already have feminism. Women should be treated like men shouldn't they? Therefore, if a woman does something wrong, we should hold her exactly as accountable as a man regardless of what their sizes are.
- You think making fun of a woman's driving skill is comparable to making fun of a man's penis being cut off? Really?
A comparable thing to making fun of a man's penis getting cut of is something like, laughing at a woman's vagina being scraped for female genital mutilation being or stabbing her boobs 5 times.
- yes I agree but false rape accusations do heavier damage to a man than a woman. It only hurts woman's image as a whole. It destroys a man's life completely.
13.
Smithey said:
I agree they have more rights than us, but all those rights mean nothing really coz this is our world...
Really?
Like... really?
Smithey, I started respecting you at the beginning of your post but as I read through, I'm thinking you're either trolling or you're just replying just for the sake of replying.
Ok, I'll play along. You haven't proven anything that this is our world. Can you explain more?
If I remember correctly, if one group has more rights than others then it is "their world" whatever that means.
If a woman can silence you for saying something bad about women and if they say something bad about men, it's ok, then it's "their world".
Example: say anything misogynistic or even something that disagrees with women as a gender. The whole world will be against you and you're called a misogynistic sexist pig. Man, I don't know why you can't see this.
Now, a woman saying anything about men.. like for example Denaerys Thargaryen saying "All Men Must Die.. we are exempted because we are not men" is accepted by society. Some even post it as their banner in their blogs.
Obama said "women are smarter than men". Everyone applauds.
If Obama said the opposite, regardless of how he implied it, there would be a huge uproar.
14.
Smithey said:
False, women were property of men throughout most of history, so it doesnt matter how oppressed the "poor" man was, his wife was always beneath him as is property, always more oppressed, by default.
ok, but throughout history, men also died in war for women, prioritized women's lives over their own and made society a good place for women to live in.
Does that mean everything a man has over a woman in modern western society shouldn't matter? Wait, let me think of something men has over women. Oh right, nothing. You haven't proven anything so far.
15. How Men and Women got Their Rights to Vote
but women also weren't expected to work hard. They had the easy life throughout history.
16. Rape Rape and more Rape
I think we're on an agreement with rape but I think the failed system is due to not having a better one. If you have a proposal, I'd like to hear about it.
17.
Dude, there are many kinds of power. I don't see how being a man has an advantage in job interviews. Probably biological, yes, I agree with that since women has to deal with being the vessel to a child. Maybe in the future, if scientists can invent artificial wombs, women won't have to deal with it. Also, man, you just can't say majority of prison inmates are minorities, hence minorities are oppressed. You should know by now that I am very concerned with why.
Getting back on topic, women holds a lot of power in our society.
1. Family Courts as we've both agreed on.
2. Breeding. Women can force a man to pay for child support because it takes a man and a woman to make the child. If it's abortion, it's solely the woman's decision. Apparently, taking a man and a woman to make the child is thrown out the window.
3. Never Hit a Woman but Women can Hit a Man - self explanatory
4. Say something bad about Women, misogynist! Say something bad about men, it's ok - self explanatory
5. Sexuality - as we've discussed earlier, since men are taught to chase women, women can use her sexuality to manipulate a man. We've already seen this happening with some male feminists.
and so on..
18. 25% domestic violence victims are males
Smithey said:
Its not..
it is...
19.
I've offended a bunch of females who are not feminists? If they're not feminists then they shouldn't be offended with anything I say.
20.
ignorance for feminists is always synonymous with not agreeing with feminism. And that my friend is a manipulative tactic.
21.
Smithey said:
I wasn't arguing pro feminism, I just claimed you're delusional in thinking women have it better than us, make that extremely delusional.
and I've explained my case. If you can't see it, then my arguments are not for you.
22.
actually, I've been very open to feminists. I've always given them a chance. There's a difference between open-minded and taking every idea gospel. However, a lot of feminist mindset are bogus.
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