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| Thread: Did Feminists Lied/Over Exagerated Women's Victimhood? |  This thread is pages long: 1 10 20 ... 23 24 25 26 27 ... 30 31 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted August 13, 2014 10:56 PM |
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I have been reading some of these posts to my brother, who is living with me right now. And just now, he asked me not to read any more. He couldn't take it. He went onto the AVFM and read up some of Elam's work and told me simply, "Please, I cannot hear any more of this filth. I can't take it".
I know how he feels. Reading some of the anti-woman hatred has been really hard, especially as its tied up with such misguided untruths. Until JEmo turned up (with his agenda) I hadn't once thought about misogyny whilst on HC. Not once. I had always had the most fun here. Just guys and a few girls chatting, discussing topics, games, RPG. Absolutely no hatred or oppression towards each other. People just helping people, with games problems, other issues, occasionally annoying each other. But nothing like this.
And what seems so dumb is that a lot of it is based around a few female heroes in the game.  Especially when its complaints about feminisation of a game made by men. ????
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted August 14, 2014 11:56 AM |
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All this hype about H7 made me take a break from this thread for a while.
Anyway..
@meroe
What exactly is this "woman-hating" you're labeling Elam about? I know discussing with you is pointless since your emotions has already taken over your ability to think but I'll just say this for the open-minded people out there reading this thread.
Paul's "Bash a Violent snow Month" refers to well.. violent snowes. Not all women are violent snowes. It's just like saying "Bash a Violent Douche Month". Douche is related to men but it's not sexist because you're referring to the action doers, not the gender.
Paul is not a woman-hater. If he was, he would have not allowed women in avfm or the MRA. But we all know what's his stand now do we? Are Paul and female MRAs like say.. Karen Straughan enemies? Even feminists can answer that question.
I'm pretty sure you would condone "Bash the Wife-Beaters Month". Don't lie. It's the same thing.
@Dagoth
Yes, I agree. It is wrong. But just because it's wrong doesn't mean it's not an easy lifestyle, right? It was the norm at that time. Ladies would have never thought it was wrong because it was the norm.
Right and wrong are societal constructs for me by the way.
You know human sacrifice is wrong right? What if you're Mayan? You wouldn't think human sacrifice is wrong because you'd be thinking you're pleasing the gods. You know what I mean?
And oh I'm sorry. I didn't know you were referring to Denaerys. Silly me.
Anyway, there is a lesson to learn from Denaerys. She made the best out of her situation. Same with Marjorie (spelling?). Ok, I didn't watch season 4 so the information I have is only up to season 3 but Marjorie made the best of her situation.
Sansa is like this girl who's thinking she's had it pretty bad when in all actuality, you are the boss of your own fate. Everyone is. Everyone had it pretty bad: Jon Snow, Robb Stark had to prove his worth and so on.
My whole point is that you can only make your situation pretty bad if you don't take charge of it. Now there are exceptions. There are situations that are pretty much out of your control like the draft, disposability because you're male or a random drunk stranger who wants to rape anyone he sees and he's too big for you to intimidate or too drunk for you to reason out with. Men and women have both been oppressed, just in different ways. Women are not more than oppressed than men.
@Bloodsucker
can you site a quote when I said they were biologically doomed? I know I said biological but I can't recall saying doomed.
@artu
Actually, there are a few women who did it. Joan of Arc comes into mind. And was it you or meroe that gave me links to powerful women in the past? hmmm...
I know your next response:
"but society generally frowns on women who hunts for power"
or something like that. AmIright?
to save time, I will ask you this.
Does society not frown on men to live life with just taking care of the house and babies while his woman worry about looking for food to eat?
There were a few things open to women but not to men at that time.
For instance, chivalry.
A woman's life will always be more valuable than a man's. We've seen this happen in modern society too. If a man and a woman is trapped in a burning building, the fireman is always obliged to save the woman first, the man second.
If there's a burglar in a poor family's house, it's always the man that will risk his life to hunt for the burglar while the woman hides at the man's back.
Again, I'm not dreaming of this kind of lifestyle. All I'm saying is, it works both ways.
In modern society, I just can't see how women are more oppressed than men. The glass ceiling is a myth. If you read my post to smithey, no one has addressed my debunking of the pay gap and so on... In modern society, men are more oppressed than women.
and artu, about GoT, you're interpreting things way too literally. The witch knows full well Denaerys will kill her if she turn her husband into a mindless zombie, right? She'd be a total idiot if she don't.
The witch said it herself. She doesn't want Kal Drogo's family to raid anymore. Which explains why she killed her son and indirectly killed Kal Drogo. Her intent was to immobilize Kal Drogo. Again, she'd be stupid to kill Kal and her son but not her.
@meroe
Ok, the Paul post needs to be separated.
- I'm not belittling rape actually as a whole. Yes, rape is a violent crime but I don't consider it the greatest of all crime. Murder is much worst.
- I never said I never experienced sexual violence. I just don't mind it that much because I'm pretty good at controlling my emotions.
- Yes, arrange marriage is pretty bad but it's not as bad as what men has to go through. Like I said, do the best with your situation. It is why I brought up Denaerys. She handled Kal Drogo pretty well.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted August 14, 2014 12:32 PM |
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I'd appreciate it if we didn't slip into using fictitious material as examples.
Also, Jeremy you have to raise some real points here, I get the sense that it only appears that you're on one side of the fence, but you're very much still on top of it, and merely raising random little quirks.
I mean for example one might say that the high (subjective) rape rates in England can be seen as a good thing, if you look at it with the right light ofc. (it is reported that approximately 85,000 women are raped on average in England and Wales every year, over 400,000 women are sexually assaulted each year, and 1 in 5 women aged 16 - 59 has experienced some form of sexual violence since the age of 16) These are essential for the jobs of thousands of officers who otherwise would be made redundant. So essentially rape, and other sexual crimes have greatly helped to secure the jobs of countless police and support officers. Now, that's a fact, the question is, is it worth it? And I can wholeheartedly say yes, rape for the economy, rape for a brighter future. Just don't forget to report it, otherwise yer just a slag.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 14, 2014 01:26 PM |
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wow. tsar, that's a whole new level of... nevermind(i really hope that post is flippant. if it is, consider me retarded, and i'll go about my day. if it isn't, then reverse that).
i'm going back to ignoring this thread, regardless.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted August 14, 2014 02:14 PM |
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Deep down you know it's true, don't fight it.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 14, 2014 02:27 PM |
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lol. i know no such thing.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 14, 2014 02:39 PM |
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Wait, you're seriously trying to have a conversation with this troll Meroe?
I am impressed. 
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted August 14, 2014 02:43 PM |
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To add to that, I think that it would be psychologically (I've taken a course on it) helpful for a woman who is traumatized by rape to know that it was for a noble cause, a monstrous means to a noble goal, beats the alternative which is the of being just an object for satisfying some creep's lust.
Same difference, but a different perspective and result. And you can't argue with results.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted August 14, 2014 03:38 PM |
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Quote:
Right and wrong are societal constructs for me by the way.
Nihilism is intellectual cowardice. It's the intellectual equivalent of saying "I don't really care" after writing a long essay. Anyway, I tip my fedora to you.
And let's just forget about GoT. It is the bold and the beautiful for nerds, after all. 
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted August 14, 2014 03:51 PM |
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If a behaviour is presented as a biological imperative then it can be said in a coloquial way that "is doomed to happen".
BTW, if u had listen that Sarkeesian woman your references seem to hate u would be less worried about the gender of Homm heroes and creatures. They all behave like man stereotypes (agressive, seeking power, solving problems with violence, etc...) and u can trade their gender without any incoerence or change in game dynamic. See H3 genies for instance.
This could be different: for example on Disciples or Battle Reamls the healers are women and the fighters are men but this isn't the case in Heroes. In fact in Heroes 3 the might (brutal force) heroes are the ones who have a female representation (Crag and Tazar look females...).
On the other hand, all this talk and what I've been listenning made me aware of the way I undermine the oposit sex by thinking about some female characthers from Heroes 5 as "lookers".
I feel now more susceptible to your argument.
In fact I think the politicaly correct aproach should be ban some Heroes creatures because women shouldn't be over erotised or presented has sexual traps, like the level 6 dark elves, for instance.
P.S. But, has some of u already noticed, I'm not a politicaly correct person so I still like to stare at portraited beauty be it an objectification or not.
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted August 14, 2014 04:22 PM |
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Ohh Jerry, back to attempting to accuse me of being over emotional. *tut tut* you just can't help yourself. Grasping at straws again. Gosh it must really peeve you off that I, as a woman, keeps arguing with you about feminism (something as a woman I know nothing about, but you as a young filipino guy knows so much about). FYI, I know hints and history for example are not your thing, but that was sarcasm 
The fact that you cannot understand the female bashing that oozes out of Paul Elam and his publication - is unbelievable. I can only believe that you have gotten yourself into a corner and is now trying to fight your way out by claiming ignorance of (I say this because you are an educated man and the only other explanation for such blatant ignoring of the facts would be insanity).
And yet you try to justify Elam's belief that women deserve a beating, not just a slapping ooooh no, a real, beaten to a pulp, beating. And you lie about Elam's "Bash a violent B***h month", as being open to bash violent people month". Gosh you out and out lie. Anyone reading Paul Elam's quotes know damn well that he is condoning violence towards women. So stop lying Jerry, that is a hideous lie and it proves you are just not capable of rational thought nor honesty.
OOh and there is Karen Straughan again. Oh good grief, we are running around in circles Jerry, again!! *tut tut* gosh you are so naughty. Karen Straughan writes for Elam! Of course Elam is going to allow a women to write for his publication if she is condoning the majority of his thinking. Doh! That proves jack s**t as the Cockney's like to say in London
And as for me condoning violence. Gosh I forgot your omnipotence. You speak for all of mankind. *tut tut* Jerry you can't stop your double standards can you 
Actually I have never condoned violence against anyone, I find violence abhorrent. The preserve of the ignorant. My father used to beat the living daylights out of me, all throughout my childhood. I've had hospital visits, broken bones, fractures, foster placements all before the age of 14. Yep my father was one of those violent men you love to champion so much. Do you know what made my father stop beating me? I hit him back with a skillet. Yep plop right on the side of his face. And why did I hit him? Because he went after my 11 year old brother to do what he normally did to me. And guess what, it worked!!!! A fractured cheekbone and hideous swelling made him think twice.
But guess what. I have never hit anyone else. But I guess you don't want to hear that either coz, well it makes it look like you made a rather rash assumption huh. I weight approx 108lbs, I can barely fight my way out of a paper bag.
However, the truth of the matter here is simple. JeremiahEmo cannot understand history, or facts, or statistics. Neither is he capable of listening, absorbing other people's opinions when they do not agree with his narrow mindset. And on top of that, when people take time out of their day to provide him with information, proof, statistics, historical facts, laws etc. Guess what he says. Go on guess, I bet most of you know it well by now
"I still don't think that women have been more oppressed than men. You know what I mean".
Oh and regarding Danerysljoeias and her husband Drogo thing. You said "She handled Drogo pretty well". Yes, in a fantasy program. Magic word there, FANTASY. She is written as a survivor because she is integral to the main storyline, ergo, she cannot die ..... yet. So in a male authors mind, his portrayal of a young woman who goes through the most hideous of occurrences and proves herself as a "Chosen One" by coming through it all. Btw she survived an inferno. Okay. FANTASY.
In reality when that happens to women, usually in places like the Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan. Those girls commit suicide.
Her storyline is a FANTASY. The male author is trying to describe a strong female character. So he goes about it by making her suffer horribly and going through a messiah like incident to prove her worth to the audience. All the women in the books are oppressed and yet gain some control of their lives through sly manipulation of men etc. That isn't true empowerment, although that bit is very much based in reality.
He could of course, just written as a Brienne type. But no.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 14, 2014 04:22 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
On the other hand, all this talk and what I've been listenning made me aware of the way I undermine the oposit sex by thinking about some female characthers from Heroes 5 as "lookers".
it's not "undermining". it is natural for people to want to see their preferential choice of sex at it's most attractive peak. just because a heterosexual male likes looking at nude women, that doesn't make them sexist. or a gay male wanting to look at nude guys. or a heterosexual woman wanting to look at nude guys. or a gay female wanting to look at nude women. sexiness is easy on the eyes. sexual exploitation is a whole different thing altogether. lumping the two categorically is stupid.
the problem i have with much of the feminist garbage, is that it tries to deny simple, biological attractions between the species. it damns you for even THINKING about a woman as sexy. at least, some of them do.
now, where have i heard that before? oh yeah, the teachings of the (fill in the blank of your favorite religious text here). what a great example for living THOSE are.
seriously though, demonizing natural impulses isn't a good thing. except when it comes to human being's natural and careless desire to destroy whatever they feel like.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 14, 2014 04:32 PM |
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Jemo it's already been explained how powerful or successful women were an exception and why giving them as examples would be a logical fallacy, I wont waste my time to repeat such a simple notion. If you are unable to understand the most simple things that you read, don't try to debate about them.
Quote:
Does society not frown on men to live life with just taking care of the house and babies while his woman worry about looking for food to eat?
My examples weren't clearly about that though, were they? They were about farmers, shoemakers etc. YOU talked about men going out there and making a name for themselves had risks and I replied that was a choice.
Quote:
There were a few things open to women but not to men at that time. For instance, chivalry.
That statement is false and anybody who is not absolutely ignorant about social history knows it's false.
Quote:
A woman's life will always be more valuable than a man's. We've seen this happen in modern society too. If a man and a woman is trapped in a burning building, the fireman is always obliged to save the woman first, the man second.
If there's a burglar in a poor family's house, it's always the man that will risk his life to hunt for the burglar while the woman hides at the man's back.
Completely anecdotal and not necessarily true. Your examples about "women and children first" had already been refuted, you just keep ignoring anything that is inconvenient like the dedicated troll you are.
Quote:
Again, I'm not dreaming of this kind of lifestyle. All I'm saying is, it works both ways.
In modern society, I just can't see how women are more oppressed than men. The glass ceiling is a myth. If you read my post to smithey, no one has addressed my debunking of the pay gap and so on... In modern society, men are more oppressed than women.
You debunked nothing. I linked the relevant parts of the article Smithey linked: There is still a 7 percent gap, even if all the conditions are the same. And you cant debunk anything by self-fulfilling prophecies like "women will always be better teachers and men will always be better engineers." That's not proof, that's only your biased perspective.
Quote:
and artu, about GoT, you're interpreting things way too literally. The witch knows full well Denaerys will kill her if she turn her husband into a mindless zombie, right? She'd be a total idiot if she don't.
The witch said it herself. She doesn't want Kal Drogo's family to raid anymore. Which explains why she killed her son and indirectly killed Kal Drogo. Her intent was to immobilize Kal Drogo. Again, she'd be stupid to kill Kal and her son but not her.
The witch was getting a revenge not preventing future events and her having a plan has nothing to do with the fact that it takes a planet-load of delusion to interpret that scene like the writer just let Daenerys live unlike the husband and the boy BECAUSE she was female. I summed the scene up because you made it sound like the plot developed in such a way, that they were ALL going to die yet Daenerys was spared because she was a woman. Your interpretation is CRAZY.
I am really tired of correcting literally every sentence you write Jemo. Let me simplify it to you this way, I don't think you can be reasoned with, just like I don't think a pelican can be thaught to play the piano. Stop wasting everybody's time please and stop provoking us into ridiculing you more and more, because that's all you do. If you think of yourself as some pioneer or something, that is just pathetic and sad. You lack the minimum requirement to be anything, you have a one-track mind, zero knowledge of the history you talk about, exceptionally limited cognitive skills and a zest for ignoring anything that is inconvenient to your delusions. I honestly think you are psychiatrist material. Stop heating up the same refuted arguments over and over again and move on. They really had been refuted over and over again for 20 pages now, the first 10 pages or so, in a respectful manner, which turns out, was way more than you deserved.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted August 14, 2014 04:56 PM |
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fred79 said:
it's not "undermining". it is natural for people to want to see their preferential choice of sex at it's most attractive peak.
Man, those creatures seam to came from a strip club.
I don't think that's women at their peak, not for a long shot. Salamandre posted some of his own pictures of girls in "Men talk.." about an year ago. Has I remember that was a good representation of my "preferential choice of sex at it's most attractive peak".
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted August 14, 2014 05:14 PM |
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JoonasTo said:
Wait, you're seriously trying to have a conversation with this troll Meroe?
I am impressed.
Yeah I know Joonas,  I guess I am just a glutton for punishment. Maybe I am being punished for some heinous crime from a previous life. Maybe, just maybe I was some evil misogynist and am now paying the price
Or maybe you just need to crack that whip more often.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 14, 2014 05:15 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
Man, those creatures seam to came from a strip club.
I don't think that's women at their peak, not for a long shot. Salamandre posted some of his own pictures of girls in "Men talk.." about an year ago. Has I remember that was a good representation of my "preferential choice of sex at it's most attractive peak".
there are games that play strictly off of the sexual theme; i'm not sure of the one you're referring to. sex sells. if you think about it, most comic books are the same way as well. and, you're forgetting a key aspect: the males all look well built, like adonis's, as well. it's on both sides of the spectrum; focusing on one sex, you're going to find yourself believing a lot of the more nazi feminist propaganda.
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted August 14, 2014 05:36 PM |
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Edited by meroe at 17:36, 14 Aug 2014.
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fred79 said:
you're forgetting a key aspect: the males all look well built, like adonis's, as well. it's on both sides of the spectrum; focusing on one sex, you're going to find yourself believing a lot of the more nazi feminist propaganda.
How is men drawing and writing cartoon comic adonis characters and ridiculously pneumatic female characters, a nazi feminist propaganda. Did nazi feminists draw those characters ? No. They moan about them. How many people have taken notice of them moaning about it?? Not many huh.
So no, its not a case of focusing on both sides of the spectrum. Your male characters, all buff and adonis like are the male artists image of what they believe guys want to see as a description of themselves. So that some 100lb (soaking wet) guy can dream about in a non homosexual erotic scenario.
Its like 95% male driven, and 5% nazi feminist complaining. And yet somehow those nazi feminists, that even other women take no notice of, appear to take 100% of the blame. These images are male driven. Not female orientated. Not even the buff hero. He is still a male driven image.
Real women don't actually care that cartoon or fantasy characters look nothing remotely like a female reality. Because we understand that our men like to see an over exaggerated female characteristic -- boobs, butt, thighs etc. Some of us, the more secure of us, even find it cute and get happily involved with comic's, games etc because we don't focus on it, but just enjoy the story etc.
Plus we know that our men don't look remotely like the strapping, 6'10", muscle bound hero either
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted August 14, 2014 05:54 PM |
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fred79 said:
you're going to find yourself believing a lot of the more nazi feminist propaganda.
The level 6 creatures from the H5 dungeon, are the only characthers I find hiper-sexualized.
But in fact I feel overwhelmed by this dispute.
Two pages before I've put a link to something I tought it was a very funny critic to radical feminism. Well, it wasn't. The guy wasn't mocking, has I found out after spending a few hours readind his balls... he believed to be presenting a very clever argument. 
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted August 14, 2014 06:09 PM |
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Yep Bloodsucker you are right, that is how a lot of hate propaganda and groups start. They draw you with in half truths and then skew information before feeding you out and out lies and hatred.
And it works on those people who are not mentally strong enough to think for themselves and ask questions.
And in all fairness its what drives many of the Men's Rights groups and what drives many of the radical feminist hatred too. Two opposite sides of the magnet, constantly fueling each others hatred and never actually working together.
Fortunately those minority groups do not speak for the rest of us.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 14, 2014 06:09 PM |
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meroe said:
How is men drawing and writing cartoon comic adonis characters and ridiculously pneumatic female characters, a nazi feminist propaganda. Did nazi feminists draw those characters ? No. They moan about them. How many people have taken notice of them moaning about it?? Not many huh.
So no, its not a case of focusing on both sides of the spectrum. Your male characters, all buff and adonis like are the male artists image of what they believe guys want to see as a description of themselves. So that some 100lb (soaking wet) guy can dream about in a non homosexual erotic scenario.
Its like 95% male driven, and 5% nazi feminist complaining. And yet somehow those nazi feminists, that even other women take no notice of, appear to take 100% of the blame. These images are male driven. Not female orientated. Not even the buff hero. He is still a male driven image.
Real women don't actually care that cartoon or fantasy characters look nothing remotely like a female reality. Because we understand that our men like to see an over exaggerated female characteristic -- boobs, butt, thighs etc. Some of us, the more secure of us, even find it cute and get happily involved with comic's, games etc because we don't focus on it, but just enjoy the story etc.
Plus we know that our men don't look remotely like the strapping, 6'10", muscle bound hero either
i was addressing the fact that feminists tend to think in one-sided terms. a feminist will tell you, in other words, that it is sexist to portray females in sexy outfits in popular media. but i never hear mention of the same sexism that is being used on the male counterparts. you don't see men up in arms over that, do you? no. because we don't care. we're too busy looking at all the sexy ladies.
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