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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted September 09, 2015 05:36 AM |
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Datapack said:
GenyaArikado said:
You mean that thing they changed to the logical level in Heroes 7? (ie uniforms being similar because...duh)
I agree it's a lot better in H7 compared to H6 but it's still too much.
Every factions is pretty much linked with a color, but there are some expections like with Nature and Inferno, those two are destined to be linked with green and red.
Yeah. Frankly i think thats more of a design choice (a visual queue to make you know X creature is from x faction) than something lore based, but it was ridiculous in H6 (purple minos). In H7 it feels more organic.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted September 09, 2015 08:40 AM |
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GenyaArikado said:
which meant that no one knew the full story and lead to the Ashan reboot, gj NWC lol.
Knowing the full story is boring, leads to little mystery.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted September 09, 2015 08:41 AM |
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Pawek_13 said:
Marzhin went as far as to recreate original Mana Wells, Karts, Windmills, etc. He's also a great fan of M&M series from its beginnings. He will ensure that these campaingns are true to the original script. 
I really love his well. It looks much better than its replacement introduced in H6. Hopefully we will find it on more maps that only those from Heroes IV. And if not, we just have to make our own maps with these wells 
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Can you make a faction including these units?
Join the Finding Harmony competition 2.0!
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 09, 2015 08:52 AM |
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Edited by ChrisD1 at 08:52, 09 Sep 2015.
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Avirosb said:
Knowing the full story is boring, leads to little mystery.
Not knowing what on earth is going on is also boring.
Pros and cons here and there. Nothing is better,nothing is worse. Matter of taste. I like apples you like oranges ,he/she likes pears amd so on.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 09, 2015 09:21 AM |
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GenyaArikado said:
To make things worse the only thing lore truly "restricts" is creature appareances and even those have an spectrum.
*cough* 7 Dragon Gods *cough* 7 Magic Schools *cough**cough*
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted September 09, 2015 09:30 AM |
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Maurice said:
GenyaArikado said:
To make things worse the only thing lore truly "restricts" is creature appareances and even those have an spectrum.
*cough* 7 Dragon Gods *cough* 7 Magic Schools *cough**cough*
*cough* race-based factions *cough* Arbitrary skill restrictions *cough* unnecessary spell school restrictions *cough*
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted September 09, 2015 09:43 AM |
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kiryu133 said:
Maurice said:
GenyaArikado said:
To make things worse the only thing lore truly "restricts" is creature appareances and even those have an spectrum.
*cough* 7 Dragon Gods *cough* 7 Magic Schools *cough**cough*
*cough* race-based factions *cough* Arbitrary skill restrictions *cough* unnecessary spell school restrictions *cough*
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted September 09, 2015 09:51 AM |
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HA! I actually do need that right now! 
thank you. 
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 09, 2015 10:03 AM |
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In h6 we didn't have dragons because of dragon gods and now we do. You could have lot of magic schools like water,air,fire, dark light,prime,but organise it more neatly.
if you fail to see that nomatter the lore, it's all about right implememtation ,then you might as well cough instead of posting.
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 09, 2015 10:08 AM |
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kiryu133 said:
Maurice said:
GenyaArikado said:
To make things worse the only thing lore truly "restricts" is creature appareances and even those have an spectrum.
*cough* 7 Dragon Gods *cough* 7 Magic Schools *cough**cough*
*cough* race-based factions *cough* Arbitrary skill restrictions *cough* unnecessary spell school restrictions *cough*
aren't these mainly design decisions?
I mean, if we look at h5, lore was there, yet some of these things you said were different. Btw, I think there are more than 7 dragon gods.
Imo, they just decided to use 7 schools and then the rest came. It could be 9 schools, just add chaos and void magic to the pool, or it could be 3 (order/chaos/void), or 5 (4 elements+prime), or 12 (6 elements + 6 demon overlords), etc.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted September 09, 2015 10:14 AM |
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They're design decisions Based on lore rather than design decisions based on making interesting gameplay, which is what at least I (and I believe many others) are against. We want lore to be a result of gameplay, not gameplay to be a result of Lore.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted September 09, 2015 10:18 AM |
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ChrisD1 said:
Avirosb said:
Knowing the full story is boring, leads to little mystery.
Not knowing what on earth is going on is also boring.
Tends to happen a lot in Ashan as well.
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted September 09, 2015 10:40 AM |
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Pawek_13 said:
Marzhin went as far as to recreate original Mana Wells, Karts, Windmills, etc. He's also a great fan of M&M series from its beginnings. He will ensure that these campaingns are true to the original script.
I'm not changing a single line in Terry's script, that's for sure.
I might have to write some extra gameplay texts for quest descriptions and the like, and I might add some easter eggs for fun though
One thing I won't do is change or remove every little reference to Ashan beyond the most obvious ones. (For instance I'll change the Shrine of the Seventh Dragon for a Tree of Wisdom or something similar, depending on the assets I find, but I'm not going to remove every creature that wasn't in H4 or rename every spell). I'd rather focus on adding new things ^^
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 09, 2015 10:40 AM |
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Lol, Dies
But yeah, what Kiryu said.
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 09, 2015 10:46 AM |
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Edited by jhb at 10:47, 09 Sep 2015.
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kiryu133 said:
They're design decisions Based on lore rather than design decisions based on making interesting gameplay, which is what at least I (and I believe many others) are against. We want lore to be a result of gameplay, not gameplay to be a result of Lore.
But as I exemplified above, we could choose any number of schools we think would be good for gameplay and then fit the lore there.
Honestly, I don't see the difference if it is ashan, or oshan, or oshuaka... if we keep the same design decisions, we'll accomplish the same or similar results.
I can be wrong, but I still think lore comes after, it sounds more logical to me. :S
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merenefere1282
Hired Hero
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posted September 09, 2015 10:51 AM |
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Marzhin said:
I'd rather focus on adding new things ^^
Maybe you can also add mobile units feature from H4?
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted September 09, 2015 10:54 AM |
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Pawek_13 said:
EnergyZ said:
But I hope they have sticked with EVERY part of the script. That means no "Ashanification", just plain script.
Marzhin went as far as to recreate original Mana Wells, Karts, Windmills, etc. He's also a great fan of M&M series from its beginnings. He will ensure that these campaingns are true to the original script.
There is a problem. Anyone who has played H4 campaigns knows well how long the writing is. Not saying the length of the text is the problem, but how will it be recreated in here?
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted September 09, 2015 10:58 AM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 11:04, 09 Sep 2015.
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jhb said:
But as I exemplified above, we could choose any number of schools we think would be good for gameplay and then fit the lore there.
Honestly, I don't see the difference if it is ashan, or oshan, or oshuaka... if we keep the same design decisions, we'll accomplish the same or similar results.
I can be wrong, but I still think lore comes after, it sounds more logical to me. :S
It should.
But that's not what is happening. The examples that has been given have been explicitly stated (the developer stream for example) to be because of lore. They had the lore and made a design-decision to enforce that lore. While you're right that it should be the other way around (Game-design that shape lore) that is not what is happening and the game suffers as a direct result.
If you come up with a good mechanic that goes against lore you change the lore until it fits. What H7 is doing is taking good mechanics that don't fit the lore and change the mechanics until they are not very good but fit the lore. That's just poor game-making.
EnergyZ said:
There is a problem. Anyone who has played H4 campaigns knows well how long the writing is. Not saying the length of the text is the problem, but how will it be recreated in here?
In-engine cutscenes, duh 
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted September 09, 2015 11:12 AM |
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EnergyZ said:
There is a problem. Anyone who has played H4 campaigns knows well how long the writing is. Not saying the length of the text is the problem, but how will it be recreated in here?
In-engine cutscenes, duh
Yeah, but I think there are some limitations to it. Imagine Milton being beaten up by Worton or the brawl of Waerjak and Wulgar in a tavern.
I just feel portraying it in cutscenes would just lose a bit of its charm, rather than written up.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted September 09, 2015 11:14 AM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 11:29, 09 Sep 2015.
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A bit of the charm I would say that any cutscenes at all would destroy the entire mood.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
