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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted August 12, 2016 11:44 AM |
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Edited by Maurice at 19:25, 12 Aug 2016.
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Bitula said:
Exactly!!!
And because “Virtual HC core group” being against this and similar sort of trivial expectations, when reading their posts for me it is hard to believe that they give valid explications for why people like playing Homm games. This is probably not about “Why people like to play Homm games” but rather why some “HC members like to play Homm games”. I see no generic truth in their description titled: “How a Homm game must be implemented to be a good game”. That’s because I don’t like half of their suggestions… I would maybe not even buy a Homm game designed by HC members, because of the huge difference in vision. I do consider myself a Homm fan, simply because I spent thousands of hours and several years playing H5. This in itself is enough for “Fan” title, right? But when reading these recipes on how to cook a good Homm game a la HC I don’t even understand how is it possible that we play the same game and have so different reasons for why we like it.
This is one of the reasons I started posted again here. I felt that this line of thought is too represented, simply because the people that support it are too vocal and active (on several platforms) compared to others. There are several fans of HoMM titles, including me and you I hope, who think that the unit lineups of modern HoMM titles are vastly superior to the old games of the series.
This does not mean that I support Ubisoft or Limbic or Black Hole for this reason (quite on the contrary), I am just happy with the lore, the art direction and unit design of the last few titles.
JollyJoker said:
What didn't work was both Elves and Dwarves, which was redundant and not good.
Not necessarily. I liked the H5 lineups of both of those factions more than the H7 ones. Deer, Hamsters, Bears (those had to be mounted, the unmounted ones belong thematically to Sylvan/Preserve imo), Lava... Boars. All of those units either seem not to fit somehow or are not evoking enough "power" for me to want to have them in me army (cute white hamster warriors? really?). I would take the Thane (Sylvan) and the Spearwielder (Fortress) from H5 over those units any day, even if it means having more race-bound units in the lineup.
Verriker said:
I agree that you that this sexualization occurred in the industry, but I do think the other posts are making reasonable points, because I'd say Heroes under NWC has actually been very restrained in that outside of some, indeed, cherrypicked examples like the Heroes 1 Sprite, Queen Catherine, the Pegasi, and Might and Magic 8 (but, note that Queen Catherine's actual character is badass and empowered when you dig delow the surface as AnkVaati pointed out, she is actually competent than Roland, Isabel etc) lol
if we're talking about the units having noticeable tits, well yeah I mean some units in Heroes 3 have noticeable tits and chests and bits showing, but bear in mind, these games are desperate to evoke Classical art from Greek and Roman tradition, it's generally not gratuitous in any way, it's not going near Boris Vallejo territory or even Dungeons and Dragons really lol
basically I agree with you that there have been some morons in the community, and it is nice to have more tastefully depicted female units in principle, but unlike you I don't see where Ubisoft/Team Erwin have been doing anything particularly different or superior to NWC lately, you can pick out some good or bad examples in all of the games, I mean the likes of this and this are not necessarily what I'd call non-sexualized and progressive lol
edit, it's a side point, but also please be aware that it's not like the NWC was some bunch of closet sexist frat boys we are making up convoluted arguments for, or not like the guys at Nival who basically admitted they created the Dark Elf faction just to get their jollies, the NWC art directors and a majority of their senior artists were actually women lol
Well, of course other posts might make sense. They just completely missed the point I made. I was speaking about older fantasy games and how they tended to oversexualize females and everyone just started defending NWC instead (which rather confirms my "stuck in the past" point). My main example was King's Bounty and my secondary example were older HoMM games (which admittedly I only chose due to relevance, not because HoMM titles are the main offenders or anything). What I had in mind were things like H5 Dungeon, H1/H4 sprites and the cutscenes of H3. NWC is only partially involved in the above, Ubi did the same thing of course.
We have to disagree about your Ubisoft/Team Erwan comment. I dislike Team Erwan (almost) as much as you do, but I think they did one thing right with the art direction of the game. H6 and H7 are aesthetically pleasant (again, this is my opinion) and they hit a style that matches exactly my preferences in fantasy games (I am not a big fan of either too conservative classic fantasy or cartoony WoW-like games).
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted August 12, 2016 11:47 AM |
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 12, 2016 11:50 AM |
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Edited by AnkVaati at 11:58, 12 Aug 2016.
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Bitula said:
Well, exactly. So where do we disagree?
The way I like it:
1) But if a faction is based on Human towns, I expect to see at least 3-4 humans
2) But if a faction is based on Dwarf towns, I expect to see at least 3-4 dwarfs
3) But if a faction is based on Elf towns, I expect to see at least 3-4 elves
4) But if a faction is based on Undead towns, I expect to see at least 6-7 undead
5) But if a faction is based on Demon towns, I expect to see at least 5-6 demons
This is how I would like it. And this is how you (partially) wouldn’t like it. So which one of us represents the majority? I don’t know. Do you like H5 at all? Because if not, what are we discussing? Note, I would like Homm series to follow H5, not H1-H5. I don’t think that majority of Homm fans would like a mix of H1-H5. They probably have a favorite one, and want to base the next Homm on that one.
@Galaad
I was talking about H5, and you? If H5 was a drastic change I don’t care, because I like it the way it is. Tried H3, didn’t like it when comparing to H5. It's OK, but it is less.
The thing is... originally M&M towns weren't supposed to be based around races like that. The sorceress/nature town wasn't "the elven town" in the NW games - there was only one, optional, elven unit in H4 even. Even the demons aliens were a minority among the creatures in their own town (3/7), the rest were allied species who shared similar values. The NWC towns were based on a shared theme, shared values (chaos, death, order) and to me at least, that felt more interesting and mature than the race based factions that clog so many other fantasy games.
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted August 12, 2016 12:06 PM |
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AnkVaati said:
The thing is... M&M towns aren't supposed to be race based around. The sorceress/nature town wasn't "the elven town" in the NW games - there was only one, optional, elven unit in H4 even. Even the demons aliens were a minority among the creatures in their own town (3/7), the rest were allied species who shared similar values. The NWC towns were based on a shared theme, shared values (chaos, death, order) and to me at least, that felt more interesting and mature than the race based factions that clog so many other fantasy games.
So what do you want to say here? That I like race based, you like shared value based factions? Yes that is true. And? So which one of us represents the preference of the majority of fans? I mean the people who buy and play the Homm games? You? No, I don’t think so. I don’t think that people buy homm games because of “shared values factions”, lol. To me races are more realistic, and I like fantasy realism. I guess I am not alone with this…
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted August 12, 2016 12:11 PM |
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As an orc I find it easier to identify with other orcs and thus a race-based Stronghold i vastly preferable to me.
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 12, 2016 12:14 PM |
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Edited by AnkVaati at 12:15, 12 Aug 2016.
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Bitula said:
AnkVaati said:
The thing is... M&M towns aren't supposed to be race based around. The sorceress/nature town wasn't "the elven town" in the NW games - there was only one, optional, elven unit in H4 even. Even the demons aliens were a minority among the creatures in their own town (3/7), the rest were allied species who shared similar values. The NWC towns were based on a shared theme, shared values (chaos, death, order) and to me at least, that felt more interesting and mature than the race based factions that clog so many other fantasy games.
So what do you want to say here? That I like race based, you like shared value based factions? Yes that is true. And? So which one of us represents the preference of the majority of fans? I mean the people who buy and play the Homm games? You? No, I don’t think so. I don’t think that people buy homm games because of “shared values factions”, lol. To me races are more realistic, and I like fantasy realism. I guess I am not alone with this…
Let's just say H3 is considered the chess of TBS for a reason... 
All right, racial homogeneity is realism (ehh....), theme-based factions isn't. Because Warcraft. Or something.
No you didn't write that, but that's kinda what I fear -that the introduction of race-based factions is part of the process of making M&M more similar to WoW/Warhammer/ES because UBI/Erwin thinks that will attract teen gamers. I don't. I think it dumbs down the series because Team Erwin doesn't think teens can understand concepts such as "shared values/culture/religion" (they can lol - ever seen how popular Ck2 is among people of all ages?).
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted August 12, 2016 12:17 PM |
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Bitula said:
@Galaad
I was talking about H5, and you? If H5 was a drastic change I don’t care, because I like it the way it is. Tried H3, didn’t like it when comparing to H5. It's OK, but it is less.
H5 had drastic changes like lore, universe, 3d etc but at least the gameplay was inspired from the tradition, unlike h6 and h7.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted August 12, 2016 12:18 PM |
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H5's biggest offender was trying to look like Warcrafthammer.
Oh yeah, and the plot, but nobody cares about that.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 12, 2016 12:24 PM |
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Bitula said:
JollyJoker said:
Complete bullcrap. The human town has always been that, in H1 and H2 FULLY human, H3 giving them Angels and Griffins as "super-natural" beings, H4 completely transcending the motive, though (which should be obvious for people who supposedly liked H4 so much).
H5 not only went back to that concept, making more or less a solid H3 copy with Haven, but also basing others on race as well, most notoriously Dwarves, thereby robbing Haven the sole reason of existence, because prior to that there was ONE AND ONLY ONE town like that.
It would have been better to find more distinct motives: Haven = race, Necro = Undead, Academy = Spirits & Constructs, Inferno = Demons (that have no racial similarity); Naga works more or less. What didn't work was both Elves and Dwarves, which was redundant and not good.
Well, exactly. So where do we disagree?
The way I like it:
1) But if a faction is based on Human towns, I expect to see at least 3-4 humans
2) But if a faction is based on Dwarf towns, I expect to see at least 3-4 dwarfs
3) But if a faction is based on Elf towns, I expect to see at least 3-4 elves
4) But if a faction is based on Undead towns, I expect to see at least 6-7 undead
5) But if a faction is based on Demon towns, I expect to see at least 5-6 demons
This is how I would like it. And this is how you (partially) wouldn’t like it. So which one of us represents the majority? I don’t know. Do you like H5 at all? Because if not, what are we discussing? Note, I would like Homm series to follow H5, not H1-H5. I don’t think that majority of Homm fans would like a mix of H1-H5. They probably have a favorite one, and want to base the next Homm on that one.
@Galaad
I was talking about H5, and you? If H5 was a drastic change I don’t care, because I like it the way it is. Tried H3, didn’t like it when comparing to H5. It's OK, but it is less.
Where we disagree is, that having ONE town based on RACE is enough, in the case of HoMM that was, for obvious reasons, the Humans. What we did NOT need, was two "Elven" towns and a "Dwarven" town, I also don't think we needed an "Orcish" town, although here the problem is less visible (and could have made even less visible, by having, for example Trolls, instead of a second Orc fighter unit).
If you look at humans, you can basically pick every human fighter type there has ever been, giving them "credibility". That is difficult with races that are "invented", because you also have to invent the units (or borrow from, say, native Americans or other tribal communities).
So this amounts to a "Halberdier" being a very specific, historic (human) unit - but you couldn't call a DWARVEN Pikeman HALBERDIER. That in turn means, a human Halberdier is a Halberdier, whereas a Dwarven Pikeman is a DWARF! I hope, you see that.
It gets clearer when you look at Demons, which are in the same category than Undead. The fact that it is a demon doesn't say or mean much, as doesn't say or mean HUMAN that much. ELF, however, and DWARF is what makes them: an Elf with a bow is as much an Elf as a blade-wielding Elf, although Elves would come with usually with a bow, while Dwarves fight with an Axe or Hammer.
What that means is, that the "Free Community of the Irolln Woods", featuring male Elven Bowmen and female Elven Druids, creatures of the wood and a plant/wood based special would have worked better as a theme, while for the Dungeon some underground thing would have been preferable.
What I want to say is, that Undead are no race, Demons are no race, but Humans are, and Haven should have stayed the only town based on race (expecially considering that the Wizards are humans as well). That said, I DO think, that Trial delivers an acceptable Dwarven faction, although it seems a bit strange that Arkath has all these spirits that are Dwarven-linked (they are actually in Wizard realm, you'd think).
Still, having Sorceress/Preserve/Nature as "Sylvan Elves" and Dungeon as Warhammer Dark Elves - sucks.
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted August 12, 2016 12:36 PM |
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Antalyan said:
@bitula
I am pretty sure that even all the people here who strongly hate H6 & H7 wouldn't agree on any common vision for H8.
But there are some very strong virtually generated visions and returning motives like: (my opinion on the right side)
1) „mixed factions” - No
2) „vague description” – that entities shouldn’t be explained in definite manner to leave room for imagination… No thanks, I like well defined settings.
3) “lore affects game play mechanics” – Why not… I think it should…
4) “Too much magic schools” – No, I would want even more
5) “Dislike of classes” – I like class based systems.
6) “Expert AI is essential” – No, AI was never that important for me in this kind of game. Mediocre AI is just fine.
7) “Bad graphics/design” – Whut? H3 is better whuuuuuuuuuuut???
And so on.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted August 12, 2016 12:43 PM |
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Ashan as a setting isn't what I'd call well defined though.
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted August 12, 2016 12:49 PM |
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Avirosb said:
Ashan as a setting isn't what I'd call well defined though.
OK, I don't like Ashan anyway, I was just against the quoted vision.
@everyone I'm not defending H7, UBI or whatever, I just don't agree, that "core HC vision" is a majority vision.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted August 12, 2016 12:50 PM |
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anyway uh yeah, moving on personally,
well I think we had discussed why the Haven is the way it is probably a million times in past discussions, really the answer is that it is full of humans because humans play the game and casual consumers like to play as an accessible character/faction/whatever anchored in their own reality to identify with and ease them into the world,
one either accepts this premise or you don't, but it's not any kind of hypocrisy or a betrayal of principles in design terms to have an exceptional, asymmetrical faction like that, it's supposed to be a chaotic war after all with asymmetrical kingdoms and militaries clashing not a game of football lol
also, it's completely obvious that the community unable to design a Heroes game by committee that people would welcome, that should be completely obvious and not need to be pointed out, nothing ever got designed by committee and was good,
the real issue is, that what Ubisoft design, is not welcomed by anybody beyond a tiny fraction of the fanbase and a tiny vocal minority here and on Steam forums lol
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted August 12, 2016 12:55 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 19:50, 12 Aug 2016.
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@Bitula
Absolutely, a lot of things are a matter of taste, to me it looks like Ubi and the people working on recent titles don't like the older titles much. Appealing to different people, the mistake is that both visions are so far apart, NWC fans can never agree with Ubi fans on many personal aspects, what is crap for one is godly for the other and vice versa, how divided the community is is IMO proof of how badly done the transition has been. Like, I'm not against a new universe why not, just why make it so different? Not that I want a replica, but something that at least shares a common spirit, thematically, visually, conceptually.
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Minastir
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 12, 2016 01:05 PM |
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Antalyan said:
@bitula
I am pretty sure that even all the people here who strongly hate H6 & H7 wouldn't agree on any common vision for H8.
(Antalyan what I wrote below is not addressed directly to you personally, so please don't take offense I just replied to your comment because you made this assumption but it's addressed to many people in the last couple of pages in this thread)
It's funny how most of the people who defend HVI and VII think that a HC member is like one entity and everybody has the same opinion about how Heroes game should look like. It's funny how they think that HC member wouldn't be willing to agree on any common vision for another Heroes game. I don't "strongly hate" HVI&HVII I just don't like them (for many different reasons which I have stated here many of times) when I compare them to HIII&HV which I prefer much more then the new ones (also the devs made HVII in a way that i can't enjoy it even if I wanted to). Maybe people who strongly like VI&VII wouldn't agree on any common vision for H8 also? I can make that assumption, since the supporters of these games are as much passionate about defending it and they like how they are made, just as those who criticize it ? 
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Bitula
Known Hero
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posted August 12, 2016 01:11 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
Where we disagree is, that having ONE town based on RACE is enough, in the case of HoMM that was, for obvious reasons, the Humans.
Well yes, I would like all towns race based. Technically the undead are not a race, sure, but let’s call them entities with common attributes which have established roots in fantasy literature. They should be similar in a major aspect of their own constitution and not a mix of physiologically different creatures which are bind by some common abstract project or thought they jointly follow. But that’s just my personal preference, really, so I don’t think we disagree anywhere, the starting point of this was the Quote about “realistic expectations” which I wanted to defend, which basically states: if something is said to be X, than I would expect it to behave like X and bear attributes of X.
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted August 12, 2016 01:26 PM |
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Closing this until one of us has time to clean it. We are not online 24/7 either.
I would again encourage people to have a cup of green tea in the meantime 
If you feel insulted, that is no excuse to insult someone back. "He started it" is not a valid reason for insults.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted August 12, 2016 01:27 PM |
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SoilBurn said:
Hi Maurice, I kindly ask you to check the 2nd post below yours and explain to me why such attitude is even acceptable in these forums. This is pure trolling and namecalling on a personal basis.
Yes, I have a strong opinion that some might not like. But I never called anybody personally anything.
I noticed it, but you're not really helping the situation. My post was in general in hopes that the people it applied to would pick up on it.
However, it seems my request fell on deaf ears.
Just for info, I have a fulltime job and yes, I am currently at work, which means my time on the forums is limited at this moment.
That being said, if people don't reduce the tone of their posts (you know who you are, I am not going to point fingers), I am going to silence them for a while so they can reflect on their choice of words and the way they're provoking other people - regardless of which side of the fence they're on.
Consider this the last warning on the current discussion.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted August 12, 2016 07:41 PM |
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Topic has been pruned: some posts deleted in the last few pages, some edited to get rid of the strong(er) statements that had little to do with the actual game itself.
My statement still stands, though: think before you post your texts and consider what the intention and likely result of your post will be. If its core intention is to rile up other people, better don't post it at all.
After all, we're here to discuss the game and it's alright if those discussions become heated - a good debate can yield a new insight for the participants - but what's not alright is if those discussions become personal. We're all responsible adults here (at least, such seems apparent from the style of posting), so let's act like it and realise the other forum members have their own view on the topics being discussed. For those who keep misbehaving, the Mod Sword and Ban Hammer await  .
With that being said, the topic is now reopened. Keep it civil, folks; the gods ... I mean, the mods are keeping a close watch. 
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foxxxer
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 12, 2016 10:04 PM |
bonus applied by Maurice on 13 Aug 2016. |
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Bitula said:
Antalyan said:
@bitula
I am pretty sure that even all the people here who strongly hate H6 & H7 wouldn't agree on any common vision for H8.
But there are some very strong virtually generated visions and returning motives like: (my opinion on the right side)
1) „mixed factions” - No
2) „vague description” – that entities shouldn’t be explained in definite manner to leave room for imagination… No thanks, I like well defined settings.
3) “lore affects game play mechanics” – Why not… I think it should…
4) “Too much magic schools” – No, I would want even more
5) “Dislike of classes” – I like class based systems.
6) “Expert AI is essential” – No, AI was never that important for me in this kind of game. Mediocre AI is just fine.
7) “Bad graphics/design” – Whut? H3 is better whuuuuuuuuuuut???
And so on.
Bitula, I’m not trying to prove you wrong or something I just want to express an opinion about the points you wrote down. It’s more than clear that those points (except 4 and 6) are more to do with personal taste than anything else. I can understand when someone starts from H5 on that everything before looks confusing and weird. But those bold, bold from nowadays pov, and “weird” line-up reorganizations along with gameplay changes (H2-H3-H4) made Heroes as a respected title and from a spin-off became a flag ship of the Might and Magic universe. But let me start through your points.
1) I don’t know what you mean by “mixed factions”; I guess moving a creature from one faction to another.
It was a bit confusing, at least for me, to found out that H2 Dungeon (Warlock) is fractured in to other H3 factions: Centaur, Griffin and Hydra moved to Sylvan (Rampart), Haven (Castle) and swamp Fortress respectively. But Dungeon wasn’t wiped out as a faction, quite the contrary it was enriched with creatures never introduced before. Even though the line-up was mostly new the dark and evil spirit of faction remained and that’s why it’s associated to H2 one. Dungeon is just the most vivid example and unstable faction though out the series. The NWC devs weren’t afraid to bend the lore as it suits them and rearrange factions. The community (including me) has got used, even dare to say grew in love, to these reorganizations + introduction of new creatures. Of course not all of the experiments were successful… yeah, I’m looking at you Infernopolis (stupid budget cuts). The point of reorganization is not just in the sake of change without any sense. The transition of few creatures from one faction to another + introducing new ones + gameplay changes brings fresh air not only in the line-ups and game experience but opens many doors for new stories in the lore. That’s whole point of thematic based factions, they are more flexible. Something that Erwan’s team has never realized and we ended up in static and boring universe. Unfortunately this is not the only problem of the new universe.
2) Vague? The old universe is not so vague as you think of. Go speak with Verriker and Avonu about this. Just the information wasn’t served at once as it is in the new universe. You have to play the game and different spin-offs to find out about the lore mostly due to less globalization, internet wasn’t so widely used as today. It’s true that there are some discrepancies maybe left intentionally to be resolved later or maybe just plot holes but the above mentioned gentlemen still argue 13-14 years after 3DO went down. Which means that the old universe still intrigues the people. The interest is main engine that keeps this industry going on but most of the people don’t think about it. And certainly the overexplanation is not the issue but the way how everything is explained. If want detailed description of everything you need really, really good writers who will feed you constantly with fresh ideas and stories. Just two examples: all beastmen and orcs are creation of the wizards; the transition/metamorphose from “lower” creatures in Necropolis always end up as vampires for instance lich -> vampire. Why? This screams lack of talent and competence in epic proportions. This looks to me like some little kid finds out new food and eats it over and over again until starts to hate it. Same way Erwan’s team thinks out a new good idea and applies it everywhere until the fans get disgruntled. I would say ok if the wizard created the orcs but stop there ffs, think about something new and diverse as possible for the beastmen. About the later example: why on the earth or Ashan should the lich be connected to vampire in its development? Just to end up in one dimensional pattern? Why can’t they be more like manifestation of the magic and might in Necropolis, two different castes?
3) Because this is not book based game. If it had been I would’ve said follow the book’s plot as much as possible. The lore should support the game being more interesting not to dictate the gameplay. This game series attracted its fanbase because of the gameplay not another way around. The gameplay should be primary objective when they design the game and then think about anything else. I can understand why they are so desperate to create a solid lore. As I mentioned several pages ago it’s very hard to manage so many external parties (developers, writers, 2D and 3D artists) especially when you publish different spin-offs as well. It’s gonna became total mess if there’s nothing to restrict the mentioned parties and I think Erwan spoke about this in some interview. The problem is in the management. That’s why I think Heroes as a flag ship game should be developed internally in Ubisoft where everything from mechanics through visuals to stories would be created. All other spin-offs may be developed externally and should obey the flag ship’s lore. Of course Erwan’s team must go as well and be replaced by more potent team. That’s more than clear even if we take in to account the H7 sales which Ubi cares the most.
4) Yes, gameplaywise they are too many and should be reduced to 4, 5 top. It’s a problem for the mage guilds distribution and the hero development itself. Seven magic schools are much harder to predict, it becomes too arbitrary when you plan your strategy. The whole idea about the seven skills became pointless the moment they introduced Arcane Knowledge.
5) I’m for class system but not in the manner that was introduced in H7. When you try to make a class system based on the generic skill pool there’s nothing unique because other classes may learn some of the skills your hero has, just cause unnecessary restrictions. It works in other titles but this is Heroes game and we expect something else. They should’ve improved the reputation system from H6: just remove the stupid blood and tears requirement and replace them with a level requirement. Expand it to a tech tree not to be so plain like H6 and you have a nice class system separated from the generic skill pool.
6) That’s why the AI is supposed to have different levels of difficulty so larger mass of people enjoy the game. Some prefer to play easier levels to pass campaigns faster and enjoy the stories or play occasionally. Others prefer harder and expect more challenging AI.
7) I don’t know who tried to compare H3 vs. H7 graphics, something impossible as H3 is 2D and H7 is 3D. We can speak about the art direction though. I find the aesthetic quality of H3 higher than any Ubi’s Heroes. But this is again in the category personal preference.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
