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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted September 21, 2016 08:22 PM |
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Quote:
What you call 'baggage' is (Ho)MM's and NWC's legacy that they COULD NOT integrate in Ubisoft games because NO-ONE KNEW THE LORE OF MM well enough to DO THE LEGACY OF MM LORE JUSTICE.
Including 3DO which is why they blew up Enroth lel
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 21, 2016 08:31 PM |
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I doubt it, changing continent did not in any way affect their previous lore.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Cortes
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 21, 2016 08:51 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Did anyone post the translated trailer for that Chinese heroes game?
Could become my very first mobile game. 
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted September 21, 2016 08:59 PM |
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Cortes said:
LizardWarrior said:
Did anyone post the translated trailer for that Chinese heroes game?
Could become my very first mobile game.
As much as it looks good, it should be reminded that *Ubisoft* is the publisher. Expect a lot of bugs.
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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted September 22, 2016 12:21 AM |
bonus applied by Maurice on 22 Sep 2016. |
Edited by SoilBurn at 00:26, 22 Sep 2016.
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@GenyaArikado:I finished Sephinroth's Scenario map as promised and I am posting here a short summary for you and anyone interested 
Overall a well-made map (although linear) and the lady herself is a sassy, power-hungry force of nature that won't stop stepping over dead bodies until she's got what she came for. Lots of good dialogues and character background. The story itself is cliche-ridden, but hey, you can't have everything.
Sephinroth campaign – The Rose’s Kiss
Synopsis:
Sephinroth becomes the Lady of Thorns as her scheme to poison her new husband on their wedding night and rule his kingdom in his place comes to fruition. Will she be able to put the blame on one of his mortal enemies or are his counselors cunning enough to unmask her conspiracy?
Long version:
Sephinroth, who is presented as double-faced, plotting b*tch, poisons her husband, Lord Wyniris (whom she chose because “he was neither creative, nor smart”), on their wedding night. Starting on the very first day after his death, she makes absolutely sure to present herself to her former husband’s counselors (especially the War Counselor Halwynn) as an inconsolable widow who just lost her soulmate. While speaking at the counselors’ meeting related to Wyniris’ death, it is revealed (by Wyniris’ aunt, Elder Counselor Torfiri, who is wary of Sephinroth) that the poison used was from a glowing mushroom, the Ylfoth, that only grows in the deepest and darkest ceilings of the underworld. In order to remove unnecessary attention from her, Sephinroth sets her plan in motion to identify a suitable scapegoat. She announces that she will set out to hunt the killer and asks the counselors to present her with the three most probable individuals that might be involved with her husband’s death. The counselors agree to her request and come up with the three names she requested (or to put it in Sephinroth’s words: “The beauty of my plan was that I didn’t pick even one of those names”.): First of all they name Ivor of the Elves, a Sylvan noble who has been constantly harassing the borders of the Dark Elven kingdom ruled by Wyniris. Then they surprisingly name Lethos, a Dark Elf himself, who had one lost a duel against Wyniris but was spared (his Poisons mastery was probably relevant as well). The third name is that of the Dwarf Gerdi, who has been “stoking up the prejudice of the Dwarves in the name of Hathor with very public speeches” and who would rather see the Dark Elves eliminated from the face of the underworld. There is however one small unexpected twist to Sephinroth’s well-laid plans: Elder Counselor Torfiri and War Counselor Halwynn both insist on following Sephinroth in her quest to uncover and punish her husband’s killer. So, already at the start of her adventure, she has two unwanted pair of eyes following her around.
Step by step it is revealed what Sephinroth’s motives were: Before she married Wyniris she was unknown to the rest of the Dark Elves, a new face in the political scene. So marrying the high lord – and then promptly making sure he disappears – was the easy way to gain access to her own domain, her own troops, her own followers. But now with the two counselors at her side, she still needs to make sure that her whole plan does not backfire.
Sephinroth is forced to choose Ivor as her first target, as he is apparently amassing a Sylvan army and planning to attack her kingdom, so she decides to show decisiveness and attack first. Despite her best efforts to make Ivor’s tongue slip and say something that could be used as evidence of his involvement in the murder of her husband, Ivor talks only self-righteous war stuff and loses the ensuing siege. Despite Sephinroth’s win, she is not able to capture or kill Ivor and he flees in the forest. This blemishes her victory somewhat, as Torfiri comments that “now Ivor will always be a thorn in our side” – to which Sephinroth replies: “But if he returns, he will learn that I am the entire rose bush”.
Next up is Lethos. Sephinroth is worried that he might be too obvious a suspect. As soon as he reaches his castle, he shouts to her that he knows why she is there. Malassa whispered to him in a trance, that Sephinroth’s late husband had been poisoned by the Ylfoth. He asks that he sees the dead body, Malassa claimed he should be able to determine who was the culprit – due to his experience with poisoning experiments, both on other individuals and on himself. Sephinroth refuses to let him get close to the body, as she is afraid that “would only allow the Master of Poisons to cast blame towards another. Her War Counselor perhaps. Or even herself”. She proceeds to win the fight against Lethos and decides to let him go as an act of mercy, hoping that would finally get Torfiri to her side. Torfiri disagrees with her decision to let the Master of Poisons run away, when it is known that her nephew died of poison. Sephinroth counters that she believes Lethos is an honourable man and not the one they are looking for – not to mention that he now owes her a favor. The War Counselor smiles with approval.
The last suspect is the Dwarf Gerdi, and this time Sephinroth’s plan has to work, if she intends to persuade Torfiri and claim “the lands that she deserves”. She travels to the Dwarven lands and finds the way to pass through the runic gate that leads’ to Gerdi’s stronghold. As the two armies clash, the dwarf shouts “Prepare to die, Dark Elf!” and Sephinroth can almost taste the venom in these last two words – she knows she has her scapegoat in her hand. She initiates a discussion using a play on the word poison and the (unsuspecting) Gerdi finally says “Ha, perfect! Poison kills the poison of the Underworld”. This is all Sephinroth needed. “Attack!” she ordered.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted September 22, 2016 06:11 AM |
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Give this gentleman/lady a QP for doing what you couldnt be arsed, little alien worshipers. Many thanks Soilburn, i really appreciate it.
Does it end there though? With her ordering the attack?
Elvin said:
I doubt it, changing continent did not in any way affect their previous lore.
i recall reading an interview where they said that.
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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted September 22, 2016 10:19 AM |
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GenyaArikado said:
Many thanks Soilburn, i really appreciate it.
Does it end there though? With her ordering the attack?
You are welcome. Yes, the scenario map ends exactly like this, with the battle vs. Gerdi but the outcome is relatively clear 
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted September 22, 2016 04:27 PM |
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
channeling capybara energy
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posted September 22, 2016 04:43 PM |
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verriker said:
since making that lame unconvincing excuse he admitted the truth is they actually just couldn't be bothered, we can see they had no problem collaborating with Paul and Rob and we can see how easy Terry was to contact too, and to work with, but Erwin didn't even try, he really wanted to insert his own fan fiction and would not be deterred lol
what's done is done though, and "Might&Magic: Heroes" is done for sure lol
Didn't know that. Does that paint them in a better light?
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Friend-shaped
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted September 22, 2016 05:00 PM |
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Looks like an update aimed at making champions stronger. All of them got buffed. Some more changes in other areas. I'll check it out tonight and see if it helps anything.
They didn't really touch champion creature movement 
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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted September 22, 2016 05:01 PM |
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Edited by SoilBurn at 17:13, 22 Sep 2016.
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Antalyan said:
I'm really curious if the bug containing losing skills when using random skilling is really solved this time 
Wow, patch just came out, thanks for notifying Antalyan. I will check it out tonight after work.
EDIT: By reading the patch notes I see they made Elite/Champions more affordable by lowering their cost and increasing Town Hall income. But there is no mention of Magic or Warfare balance changes... I hope I overlooked something there.
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted September 22, 2016 05:37 PM |
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Don't see any mention of a fixed Ardent dragon's ability....
And so now with 7 factions all with two champions. An array of creatures of all kinds. The one that inflicts the most damage of them all, more than the dragon's fire or the ripping claws of the behemoth. Even greater than the six hydra heads biting at your face. Stronger than the Grim Reapers sythe stabbing you in the back. And even more powerful than the Archangel's themselves who've been blessed by the goddddds that the true victory worships....
The champion creature with the highest damage is now THE SWORDMASTER. Because as Sandor Clegane would say, "he's got a big #%&$ing sword. And armor"
I just hate this game so much sometimes 
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 22, 2016 05:48 PM |
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Antalyan try casting firewall you will be pleasantly surprised 
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted September 22, 2016 08:02 PM |
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The_Polyglot said:
Didn't know that. Does that paint them in a better light?
I'd say not, worse light personally,
it only suggests he and his peers suffered from not only incompetence as a writer to create a solid story faithful to the franchise he inherited, but also from incompetence as a manager to identify the willing and able people who were equipped to, and laziness to not even bother trying to identify them, and arrogance to legitimately believe his works would be much better and more fashionable than the old lol
note I don't agree with you that failure is predestined and nobody else besides NWC can do that universe justice, it's a flexible universe and any decent writer can work on that without encyclopedic knowledge of games from 1986 etc (Heroes 4 barely references old games), also it's literally Erwin's job to know the franchise inside out, the problem wasn't with the task or the universe, it's with the lack of talent and effort lol
now any one of us could easily create a generic fan fiction world and shoehorn it in,
but if you're (Erwin) just going to do that and bin all the official fiction then you clearly have nothing special to offer and aren't qualified for the role of creative directing Might and Magic, and indeed there's nothing special about Ashan, it's a completely plain world and concept that belongs in the Altar of Wishes or a random fan campaign, not in official products lol
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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted September 22, 2016 08:15 PM |
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Edited by SoilBurn at 20:16, 22 Sep 2016.
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The_Green_Drag said:
The champion creature with the highest damage is now THE SWORDMASTER. Because as Sandor Clegane would say, "he's got a big #%&$ing sword. And armor"
I just hate this game so much sometimes
Leaving logic to the side for a moment, the Swordmaster is actually quite well animated (contrary to many other champion units in H7) and feels quite powerful on the battlefield. I would rather have him be a powerful unit than e.g. the Behemoth, that hovers around as if being remote-controlled by Harry Potter 
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted September 22, 2016 08:20 PM |
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ChrisD1 said:
Antalyan try casting firewall you will be pleasantly surprised
Ok that's really scary - how they could have NOT noticed it during testing.
On the contrary many bugs really seem to be fixed.
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 22, 2016 09:02 PM |
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Antalyan said:
ChrisD1 said:
Antalyan try casting firewall you will be pleasantly surprised
Ok that's really scary - how they could have NOT noticed it during testing.
Why, what's going on? 
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 22, 2016 09:15 PM |
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Edited by Momo at 21:33, 22 Sep 2016.
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GenyaArikado said:
I'm not gonna get into a "should have they rebooted" debate or anything like that. Given the self contained way Ashan is handled they could always integrate it as part of the OldVerse (after all, the universe is infinite, maybe).
Before answering, let me say that I don't want, by no means, to insult you or diminish your knowledge of fantasy narrative. You could be GRR Martin in person behind your profile, for what I know. I apologize in advance because I know that the following lines will be pretty harsh but bear in mind, I am judging your posts, not you personally.
That said-
You're pretty blatantly missing the entire point of what the HOMM universe was about. And since you're utterly oblivious to what it was about, you're just as clueless as what was lost by throwing it in the bin. The OldVerse as you call it had its own narrative purposes and meaning, while Ashan has not. It literally exists solely for justifying the game, it is a bland, generic tale with no soul of its own in most of its parts. That you put the two things on the same level demonstrates a level of miscomprehension of what both are.
Now ironically the things in which Ashan shows a modicum of more personality and uniqueness, like the Angels VS Faceless contrast of opinion (and following war) or the vision of undeath as a form of ascetism, are heavily criticized. I am sorry for that, I honestly think that Ashan gets more criticism that it deserves. As I said more than once, it also has a few good stories here and there, since the guys who wrote the lore also wrote most of the plots, the good enjoyable plots are fewer than the stupid, soulless plots, but still the exceptions go to show that it is not impossible to write good stories within Ashan.
Still Ashan doesn't get anywhere near what the old narrative was in term of uniqueness, meaningfulness, and even versatility. And unlike other factors -like judging how a tale is charming, enjoyable, interesting, etc- these aren't tastes, these are evaluations on a narrative work; things that can be argued and somewhat measured.
Mind you, I cannot be speaking by nostalgia because I have nothing to be nostalgic of. I played a bit of HOMM2, which I didn't love at all. Then I stumbled into HOMM3, but didn't know anything about its lore, which I assumed to be pretty flat and stupid. Then I went on to HOMM5 and it was then that I got interested in the lore behind the game. Which is to say that I actually got to know Ashan before the old lore of M&M. And I found that Ashan was somewhat okay, but nothing special. When I replayed HOMM4 a few years ago is when I actually decided to go and see for myself who the hell Solmyr or Tarnum were. And even now, I only have a basic grasp of the old M&M narrative. And yes: it looks objectively better than the Ashan stuff by far.
Granted, the original M&M mythology was a lot more innovative in the eighties than it is today, when much more stories have been said and told - it would need a revamp, a retell or just new characters/plots, to feel fresh, green, modern and legitimately good on its own. But that's another story. Nausicaa from Miyazaki (Hayao, not Hideataka) was revolutionary when it came out and it's not as revolutionary today, but it still tries to convey a meaning, a message, an emotion and it DID break new ground in its days; today you can feel that it's old stuff, but the quality is there. Ashan doesn't even try to be any of that. It is a stage for stories plain and simple, or rather a stage for games, built with the stereotypical architecture of "modern" fantasy with the confindent assumtpion that this way it'd be suitable to a vast audience.
It could be way more acceptable if such a generic product wasn't built by the creative team of HOMM with evident hubris and despise of the past (actually much better) work.
Since you miss the point of your so-called "OldVerse", of course you cannot even begin to grasp what would be the point of rebooting a universe inspired to that "OldVerse" rather than just going with a new world like Ashan. They are easily exchangeable in your eyes. But from an artistic, narrative standpoint, they're not.
verriker said:
note I don't agree with you that failure is predestined and nobody else besides NWC can do that universe justice,
It's actually quite the contrary. Pretty much anyone could have started from where HOMM4 left and build something good. But even if they didn't want that, as I said above, they could have rebooted the same mythology rather than going for another that doesn't share its meaning or vision.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted September 22, 2016 09:41 PM |
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Quote:
The OldVerse as you call it had its own narrative purposes and meaning, while Ashan has not.
Quote:
Still Ashan doesn't get anywhere near what the old narrative was in term of uniqueness, meaningfulness, and even versatility.
L-M-A-O. Whatever you say.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 22, 2016 10:45 PM |
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SoilBurn said:
Antalyan said:
I'm really curious if the bug containing losing skills when using random skilling is really solved this time
Wow, patch just came out, thanks for notifying Antalyan. I will check it out tonight after work.
EDIT: By reading the patch notes I see they made Elite/Champions more affordable by lowering their cost and increasing Town Hall income. But there is no mention of Magic or Warfare balance changes... I hope I overlooked something there.
Ridiculous "balance" change. You pay 2000 Gold and what you get is 1000 Gold more per day. Haven't seen something that is much more of a no-brainer anywhere, in any game.
At least, in H6 I made the 500 Gold more a function of the Marketplace (that otherwise wouldn't have had much of a function anyway, but still), so that you have to use up two builds.
That "balancing" is in line with the AI.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
