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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 18, 2014 12:58 PM |
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I was never really fan of h5 gargoyle. I do think it suited the stats and role, but it was one unit that at times didn't even make it to my early army unless I couldn't get golems. It was a bloody flying brick that took forever to move with the animation. That being said I don't like the art of the current gargoyle that much, but I think on battlefield it looks good. I was hoping them to become more offensive in nature and from the looks of it I got what I hoped.
I think cabirs are ok, but I actually preferred h5 gremlins(I really hate when devs find no other options than retcon to solve problems).
With golems I actually prefer the h5 version. It should be either a simple warrior like in h5 or it should be more massive unit (2x2). The new design actually feels really familiar from somewhere, but I just can't place it. I just don't think h7 golem looked all that good on the battlefield to be honest, but that's just my opinion. For larger version(if they had made it 2x2) I was hoping something like the golem in Final Fantasy x: http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140412181740/finalfantasy/images/8/8e/Defender-artwork-ffx.png
In general I don't get why devs want to put so much decorations on units/armor. It just eats "realism" from them when I consider that forging and crafting itty bitty details to even most basic armors would cost tons extra when you do that for the whole army with no benefit to army. Normally stuff like that should be for emperors, generals and such. Only on blade-dancer it seemed natural since they were actually runes to benefit the unit.
Also just getting more decorations, more detailed decorations or different colour(gold seems color of upgrades) shouldn't be the big difference between basic form and upgraded one. In the past you would get more fierce/stronger looking units that might even have a bit different weapons.
Just adding a bit of decorations seem to me that devs want to avoid extra work of editing the base-look of an unit and just wanna use the exact same model, but just add something little extra to have it look a bit different.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 18, 2014 01:03 PM |
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That's not the point or problem.
Reasonably spoken, animated constructs would have an extremely high defense and resistance. However, a halfway big statue from Metal or Stone would be also extremely heavy and therefore extremely slow, which could be altered by high and expensive amounts of magic imbued into them. Not to mention making them fly.
So Gargoyles should be first and foremost SMALL! Or THIN (kind of mantis-like).
If seen from a more rational point.
The actual problem here - seen from that angle - is not having a mantis-like fast, mobile durable high level Gargoyle and smaller or bigger Golem, but actually the Colossus/Titan which would obviously pretty unable to move at all due to their size and weight OR be extremely expensive.
But that has nothing to do with the fact that HoMM 5 Gargoyle did work.
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted November 18, 2014 01:18 PM |
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TD said:
The new design actually feels really familiar from somewhere, but I just can't place it.
When in doubt, Warhammer. In this case WH40k spacemarines.
____________
"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 18, 2014 01:19 PM |
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TD said:
took forever to move with the animation.
3D HoMM problem in general.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 18, 2014 01:35 PM |
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Edited by TD at 13:36, 18 Nov 2014.
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Avirosb said:
TD said:
took forever to move with the animation.
3D HoMM problem in general.
Not really. I can imagine it doing the very same in 2d battle-field. It all comes down the the animation and slow movement of the unit once it had the lift-off. Other units didn't have such problems, it was just the gargoyle.
And the golem does look like that warhammer spacemarine, but I really have this image of actual golem in my head. It's almost exactly like the one in the upgraded form as it too had those gems and fist with magic power glowing like that. They just changed some of the decorations. I think it was in some RPG, but I just can't place it. Now it's gonna be driving me crazy as it feels like it's in the tip of my tongue
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 18, 2014 01:37 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 13:38, 18 Nov 2014.
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TD said:
Not really. I can imagine it doing the very same in 2d battle-field. It all comes down the the animation and slow movement of the unit once it had the lift-off. Other units didn't have such problems, it was just the gargoyle.
The Wizards tho? Titans carefully pointing a fist towards their target? Cumbersome Hydras?
EDIT: Gremlins loading their weapons?
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 18, 2014 01:44 PM |
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Avirosb said:
TD said:
Not really. I can imagine it doing the very same in 2d battle-field. It all comes down the the animation and slow movement of the unit once it had the lift-off. Other units didn't have such problems, it was just the gargoyle.
The Wizards tho? Titans carefully pointing a fist towards their target? Cumbersome Hydras?
EDIT: Gremlins loading their weapons?
It's all in the execution really. In 2d it's easier to do things of course when you got one dimension less you need to work on. Doesn't mean you can't do it as smoothly in 3d, just takes more work.
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Heligrin
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 18, 2014 01:45 PM |
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TD said:
In general I don't get why devs want to put so much decorations on units/armor. It just eats "realism" from them when I consider that forging and crafting itty bitty details to even most basic armors would cost tons extra when you do that for the whole army with no benefit to army.
At least, there can be a good explanation why a century later Gargoyles turned from luxurious metal statues with golden elements into a simplest stone ones. Over time their construction in great numbers could become way too expensive for not so prosperous Silver Cities.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 18, 2014 01:54 PM |
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So it wasn't just the Gargoyle, glad we cleared that up 
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 18, 2014 02:06 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 14:10, 18 Nov 2014.
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TD said:
And the golem does look like that warhammer spacemarine, but I really have this image of actual golem in my head. It's almost exactly like the one in the upgraded form as it too had those gems and fist with magic power glowing like that. They just changed some of the decorations. I think it was in some RPG, but I just can't place it. Now it's gonna be driving me crazy as it feels like it's in the tip of my tongue
I think you mean something like this?
 
It's the look of the Golems they've used in World of Warcraft.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 18, 2014 02:15 PM |
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People say the Golems look like WH space marines, but on further inspection it occured to me that it has more in common with the Star Craft counterpart.
Behold:
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 18, 2014 02:44 PM |
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Maurice said:
I think you mean something like this?
It's the look of the Golems they've used in World of Warcraft.
Nope. I haven't really played MMORPGs, though I did try WoW long ago. The image I have is almost exact copy of h7 golem, just the smaller decorations are different(in some parts non-existent). Take the round "kneecaps" away, replace them with the shields from bit above(middle of golem, same height as wrists are) and you got basically the image I have. Damn it's annoying when I can't place the damn thing where I saw it 
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 18, 2014 07:06 PM |
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No entry for tonight 
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bitula
Known Hero
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posted November 18, 2014 07:27 PM |
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Edited by bitula at 08:22, 19 Nov 2014.
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TD said:
Also just getting more decorations, more detailed decorations or different colour(gold seems color of upgrades) shouldn't be the big difference between basic form and upgraded one. In the past you would get more fierce/stronger looking units that might even have a bit different weapons.
Just adding a bit of decorations seem to me that devs want to avoid extra work of editing the base-look of an unit and just wanna use the exact same model, but just add something little extra to have it look a bit different.
Yeah, I can barely see any difference between base and upgrade for any faction. Just colors, really? This is somewhat disappointing. In H5 the differences were more pronounced: different helmets, armor parts etc. IIRC. I would rather they extend development into 2016 and put more effort into details.
Edit fixed year into the future 
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 18, 2014 08:54 PM |
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bitula said:
TD said:
Also just getting more decorations, more detailed decorations or different colour(gold seems color of upgrades) shouldn't be the big difference between basic form and upgraded one. In the past you would get more fierce/stronger looking units that might even have a bit different weapons.
Just adding a bit of decorations seem to me that devs want to avoid extra work of editing the base-look of an unit and just wanna use the exact same model, but just add something little extra to have it look a bit different.
Yeah, I can barely see any difference between base and upgrade for any faction. Just colors, really? This is somewhat disappointing. In H5 the differences were more pronounced: different helmets, armor parts etc. IIRC. I would rather they extend development into 2006 and put more effort into details.
Going into the past for those development times. 
I feel that it is hard to see with just the drawings, but with the models the differences would be more pronounced.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted November 19, 2014 06:43 AM |
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Avirosb said:
DoubleDeck said:
Avirosb said:
DoubleDeck said:
Melkor = If Sauron was the 3rd dark lord, Melkor was the 1st.
Think you'll find Melkor got his fair share of influence from some guy called Satan.
There is no Satan in Tolkien's universe
There's no Melkor in Erwan's universe
So we agree the one didn't influence the other
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 19, 2014 08:49 AM |
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DoubleDeck said:
Avirosb said:
DoubleDeck said:
Avirosb said:
DoubleDeck said:
Melkor = If Sauron was the 3rd dark lord, Melkor was the 1st.
Think you'll find Melkor got his fair share of influence from some guy called Satan.
There is no Satan in Tolkien's universe
There's no Melkor in Erwan's universe
So we agree the one didn't influence the other
Um, no? That's not what influence means.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted November 19, 2014 12:04 PM |
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Avirosb said:
DoubleDeck said:
Avirosb said:
DoubleDeck said:
Avirosb said:
DoubleDeck said:
Melkor = If Sauron was the 3rd dark lord, Melkor was the 1st.
Think you'll find Melkor got his fair share of influence from some guy called Satan.
There is no Satan in Tolkien's universe
There's no Melkor in Erwan's universe
So we agree the one didn't influence the other
Um, no? That's not what influence means.
Then what did you initially mean by influence then....
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 19, 2014 12:09 PM |
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DoubleDeck said:
Then what did you initially mean by influence then....
Influence as in inspire? Come on, it's not that hard.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 19, 2014 12:12 PM |
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DoubleDeck said:
Then what did you initially mean by influence then....
Kind request not to stack quotes, please. It makes post needlessly long  .
On topic: Tolkien has been inspired for a great deal by other stories, fiction and religion in our real world. He didn't invent characters and mythology from scratch for his own world, he used earthly concepts to create his own. When designing Melkor/Sauron, it's relatively clear that he drew from evil and devilish concepts, embodied in Satan. That's what Avirosb meant with influence: Tolkien was influenced by other stories and concepts.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
